If Saturday is your first Muzzle loader hunt.
- Thread starter tsc
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Can you get the same result with 2 50gs pyrodex pellets and a powerbelt bullet at 85 yds??? Didn't think so....GMB54":vr1s63vs said:300gr SOCOM bullet and 50cal 300gr FTX bullet both at around 1900fps
300gr SOCOM. inards were soup
This was found a few feet behind the deer shot with the SOCOM bullet
185gr out of a 45cal. High shoulder shot dropped it right then. No death run at all. Looked like a bomb went off.
No, what you implied in your very first post is a typical ML is only slightly better than a 44mag and a 243 makes them look weak. Now you are upping the ante to a 7mm mag.
When comparing caliber to caliber, a modern ML with a modern sub compares very favorably to a 45/70, 458SOCOM, 50Beowulf and numerous other straight walled center fire rounds. Good bullet selection is a huge plus. The deer ive shot with Parker's BE bullets and Barnes bullets dropped as fast as any ive shot with a 308 or 25-06.
The people that fall for the "two pellets and a Powerbelt" speech from the local BassPro or Cabelas salesman are certainly at a huge ballistic disadvantage compared to the better options. IMO if someone can get online and read your post, they can get online and find a better bullet and load data for a modern ML too.
What makes you think the average guy on this forum is using 2 pellets and a Powerbelt. My guess is they are in the minority now thanks to a cool little invention called The Internet. ;)
When comparing caliber to caliber, a modern ML with a modern sub compares very favorably to a 45/70, 458SOCOM, 50Beowulf and numerous other straight walled center fire rounds. Good bullet selection is a huge plus. The deer ive shot with Parker's BE bullets and Barnes bullets dropped as fast as any ive shot with a 308 or 25-06.
The people that fall for the "two pellets and a Powerbelt" speech from the local BassPro or Cabelas salesman are certainly at a huge ballistic disadvantage compared to the better options. IMO if someone can get online and read your post, they can get online and find a better bullet and load data for a modern ML too.
What makes you think the average guy on this forum is using 2 pellets and a Powerbelt. My guess is they are in the minority now thanks to a cool little invention called The Internet. ;)
Ok, I'm gonna keep at this for the fun of it. You have a very effective load you have worked on,but the BPS/Cabelas or even Walmart muzzle loader hunter probably outnumber you 20 to 1, maybe even more and the load they will probably be shooting will be little better than a 44 mag rifle and much less a killer than a 243. If you want me to say that what I've seen and experienced in 35 years of muzzleloading is a lie and I'm full of *%#%,just say so and I will, then we can end this thread. BTW the main point I wanted to get across was that their breech plug was clean and not gunked up and to load their gun again asap just in case of the unexpected,how it got here is above my pay grade.GMB54":2fdzg6zh said:
Well.... the ballistics are what they are,I was just telling it like it is.Anybody can look them up from dozens of sources. I didn't want a first time ML hunter to think he can take his 2 pellet gun and knock a deer over at 150 yds like with a centerfire gun,you know how this stuff is marketed and hyped up. Shoot man, I was just trying to help some body out. If I was to turn this around, you'd have these new guys thinking their 2nd hand 10 year old Traditions inline is better than a 300 Weatherby Magnum! LOL!GMB54":3v1us1a5 said:
TboneD
Well-Known Member
tsc, I think maybe you got the reaction you got because you overstated your case a bit in your OP. It's all good, though, and I think your advice to keep the fire channel clear and reload after shooting a deer was good advice. I'm afraid that some of these guys who keep on shooting their guns with the powder I use, Blackhorn 209, are gonna have some disappointment one day if they don't give the Breechplug adequate and frequent care, and it's easy for anyone to forget to reload in the heat of the moment. So in terms of your advice, it's good advice for any and all smoke pole hunters. Thanks.
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Rubberduck270
Well-Known Member
Rubberduck270
Well-Known Member
You wont get any debate from me on plug cleaning. IMO its the number one cause of FTF or hang fire. A detailed pic is worth 1000 words since even some veterans may be lacking in plug maintenance. It caught me by surprise not long after i started using Blackhorn209.
Older CVA plugs need a 3mm bit
T/C plugs and CVA Blackhorn209 plugs need a 1/8" bit
Savage and newer Knight bare primer plugs need a 5/32" bit
IIRC newer Traditions use a 1/8" bit
Older CVA plugs need a 3mm bit
T/C plugs and CVA Blackhorn209 plugs need a 1/8" bit
Savage and newer Knight bare primer plugs need a 5/32" bit
IIRC newer Traditions use a 1/8" bit
I never mentioned a single mag caliber being similar to any ML. Im sure i stated the calibers that are very similar in performance. A deer will never know the difference between a 458SOCOM centerfire and my 5yr old 54cal shooting the same 300gr bullet. My chronograph cant tell the difference either. Pretty much any modern 209 inline can shoot a 300gr at 1900fps with commonly used amounts of loose powder. My old Win Apex 50cal from 2003 could without a problem.
I'm gonna load my gun tonite and I'll do the drillbit deal you've outlined too. Thanks! I'm pretty picky about the ignition system on ML,I guess it comes from living the horrors of the old sidelock cap guns. We'd melt candle wax on the capped nipples and around the bolster and all, seen tape put over the bore, balloons put over'em, you name it. We did all we could think of and still got failures. We'd take the nipple out and fill the bolster with 4f powder then load it,all kinds of stuff and all with real black powder. It was a stinky,dirty,unreliable mess, and disheartening too when you didn't have many deer/short seasons and you busted your... to get your sights lined up on one and POP was all you got! :bash: :bash: :bash:GMB54":3r3ux1ot said:You wont get any debate from me on plug cleaning. IMO its the number one cause of FTF or hang fire. A detailed pic is worth 1000 words since even some veterans may be lacking in plug maintenance. It caught me by surprise not long after i started using Blackhorn209.
Older CVA plugs need a 3mm bit
T/C plugs and CVA Blackhorn209 plugs need a 1/8" bit
Savage and newer Knight bare primer plugs need a 5/32" bit
IIRC newer Traditions use a 1/8" bit
I use hex head bit similar to these. A 5 pack is pretty cheap
The hex head bits fit in a typical nut driver handle that is commonly found is screwdriver bit sets like Wheeler. The carbon is often so hard it appears to be steel. You may need to use a smaller bit first.
I really like this set for the money. Its only about $13.
The hex head bits fit in a typical nut driver handle that is commonly found is screwdriver bit sets like Wheeler. The carbon is often so hard it appears to be steel. You may need to use a smaller bit first.
I really like this set for the money. Its only about $13.
the new cva plugs take a #32 bit.GMB54":182qjfhy said:You wont get any debate from me on plug cleaning. IMO its the number one cause of FTF or hang fire. A detailed pic is worth 1000 words since even some veterans may be lacking in plug maintenance. It caught me by surprise not long after i started using Blackhorn209.
Older CVA plugs need a 3mm bit
T/C plugs and CVA Blackhorn209 plugs need a 1/8" bit
Savage and newer Knight bare primer plugs need a 5/32" bit
IIRC newer Traditions use a 1/8" bit
Big or small, kill em all
UTGrad
Well-Known Member
Rubberduck270":13bknmrx said:
Great!!
Brisco Darlin
Well-Known Member
I'm with you wobblyshot. I like the old skool ways. Heck i may even slip my hickory handled tomahawk in my belt saturdayWobblyshot1":20bk6gfi said:
Brisco Darlin
Well-Known Member
I only shoot sidelocks and the majority i've killed have been knocked flat. I think it has alot to do with shot placement . Deer don't know what they're being shot with if you hit the right spot
stringtalker
Well-Known Member
The cva blackhorn breech plug takes a 1/8
My optima v2 qrbp takes a #32. The old style took the 1/8"
Big or small, kill em all
Big or small, kill em all
Great post, I had that exact same thing happen a number of years ago. I shot an 8 pt buck at about 80 yards and it ran about 30 yards and died.....I thought............on an embankment. I watched it for a few minutes and it seemed dead. I climbed down after reloading my gun and walked to within 30 yards of it and all of a sudden it raised its head and bellowed then laid its head back down.....I started to shoot but stupid me thought it couldn't get up and was in its last dying stages.................I took a few more steps and it came off the ground like a cannon and ran about 80 yards into the thickest cutover and I couldn't get on it quick enough to shoot a second time but had enough view of it to tell it was liver hit.....................I trailed it for about 130 yards and lost the blood trail and never saw that deer again. Hint..................in playback one thing kept nagging me in my subliminal..................it never laid its head over sideways, but rather kept it up, but still laying on the ground and its eyes could see me. Boy what a sucker I was for playing into that one. If your deer is alive after shooting with any gun, put a finishing shot into it!!! :super:
