How will CWD spread?

[gatodoc]

Yesterday while driving home from a hunt in Fayette county I passed a truck on I-40 traveling east. We were well east of the TN river approaching the Dickson exits.

There was a 4-wheeler on the trailer and what appeared to be 4-5 deer (does) piled up.

one as to assume they were taken in the CWD zone since that's the place currently allowing hunting. One has to also assume they hadn't been tested since results takes weeks. I can only hope the individuals are meticulous in handling the carcass remains as they process them.

There is no doubt CWD will continue to spread and will be everywhere eventually. Apparently, the spread will occur the same way in got to TN. By the hands of man.

 

[Omega]

I feel this is how it got to TN in the first place, importation of live deer and/or careless disregard for CWD rules/laws from other states.

 

[Lost Lake]

I think, and have for a long time, that it spread from a high fence enclosure full of imported positive deer. Looking at the map, the concentration of positives was just too massive for it to be otherwise. That's the only thing that makes sense to me with the density near the epicenter. I'd also harbor a guess that the enclosure folded up pretty quick.

How it'll spread now, my guess is carcasses, coyotes, buzzards, etc.



I'm sure I'm wrong.

 

[knightrider]

Of course like all other things with money tied to it its going to be the epidemic of a lifetime and every state will have it on purpose

 

[Buzzard Breath]

Disclaimer: I'm not as well read on transmission of CWD as I should be. With that said,

I'd like to know what the actual chance of transmission of CWD through the disposal of a contaminated carcass is. In order for it to be transmitted, wouldn't a live deer have to eat the actual dirt that was contaminated when it was disposed?

I understand that Live animals can transmit it many different ways, but is there really that big of a probability of transmittion through carcass disposal. Does anyone have a link to any studies done on this?

 

[FredRog72]

I still think it's transmitted via ticks. I've read articles attempting to debunk it but still haven't seen any real proof that it's not possible.

 

[Whitetaillane8]

.

 

[BSK]

Disclaimer: I'm not as well read on transmission of CWD as I should be. With that said,

I'd like to know what the actual chance of transmission of CWD through the disposal of a contaminated carcass is. In order for it to be transmitted, wouldn't a live deer have to eat the actual dirt that was contaminated when it was disposed?

I understand that Live animals can transmit it many different ways, but is there really that big of a probability of transmittion through carcass disposal. Does anyone have a link to any studies done on this?

Just my guess, but I would suspect transmission through carcass remains would be far rarer than transmission directly from bodily fluids (especially urine/saliva at scrapes and licking branches). Deer have been known to chew on bones for the calcium, hence the possibility of transmission through carcasses. But again, probably more rare than "natural" transmission.

 

[BSK]

I think, and have for a long time, that it spread from a high fence enclosure full of imported positive deer. Looking at the map, the concentration of positives was just too massive for it to be otherwise. That's the only thing that makes sense to me with the density near the epicenter. I'd also harbor a guess that the enclosure folded up pretty quick.

I agree the original infection in SW TN was almost certainly due to illegal importation of infected deer, but I would bet it wasn't even an enclosure. Just someone (or a group) that thought they were "improving the local genetics" by importing deer from another area or enclosure and releasing them on their club/property.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Damned shame a twra officer didn't roll up on them. I might have been inclined to try to snap a pic of their plate, and notified the local region office.

With that being said, I have read articles that suggested that scavengers may be able to spread the prions over pretty lengthy distances. Buzzards or eagles on a cwd positive carcass could potentially take it anywhere if that were true. I think that is why it has been suggested to bury carcasses deep enough they don't get disturbed or incinerate them.

 

[Andy S.]

I oftentimes wonder about CWD positive carcass disposal and rainfall runoff into streams, potentially polluting downstream water sources and infecting deer in those areas. Just a thought as I am no expert on prions and the transmission of CWD. With that said, when I have asked wildlife biologists and scientists where to look to get the most current CWD information, they oftentimes refer me to CWD-INFO.

Here is an article that some of you may find interesting. CWD prions remain infectious after passage through the digestive system of coyotes.

If you only have a few minutes to scan/read, first read the "Abstract", then scroll down and read the section labeled "Discussion".

 

[TDW05]

I'm sure the ones involved have probably been doing that for years. Before CWD was a concern. Just the same as the ones that hunt out in western states. I'm sure CWD has been around way longer in TN then the past 3-5 years or however long it been an issue.

 

[gatodoc]

Damned shame a twra officer didn't roll up on them. I might have been inclined to try to snap a pic of their plate, and notified the local region office.

With that being said, I have read articles that suggested that scavengers may be able to spread the prions over pretty lengthy distances. Buzzards or eagles on a cwd positive carcass could potentially take it anywhere if that were true. I think that is why it has been suggested to bury carcasses deep enough they don't get disturbed or incinerate them.

I thought about trying to call it in but figured it'd be luck for Twra to catch up with them. Then I thought about TWRAs apparent determination to kill as many deer in west TN as possible and these guys doing their part. The hunters were between a rock and a hard place. Live outside CWD zone. Hunt CWD zone. Collect deer but no way to wait for testing unless using a processor in the zone.

I guess their best move would have been to debone meat in the field and bury carcasses and transport meat. That would have been a heck of a job and many feel unqualified.

At any rate, I'm resigned to the fact that it's here to stay and spread is inevitable. The only question is how fast.

I hunt right in the epicenter in Fayette county. Last year we had 50% positive. This year 8 tested one positive. Herd seems unaffected with the only oberved change is a lack of aged bucks but that may be false observation.

 

[Andy S.]

I guess their best move would have been to debone meat in the field and bury carcasses and transport meat. That would have been a heck of a job and many feel unqualified. Correct, the only legal way to go about it. As is the case so many times, the selfish ways of a few will potentially impact many others who comply. IMO, this happens far more than we want to believe.

At any rate, I'm resigned to the fact that it's here to stay and spread is inevitable. The only question is how fast. Facts!

 

[Headhunter]

Buzzards, eagles and hawks I believe will spread more or "distance" than any other way. No way to stop that though.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

In South Dakota they had dump sites. You could bring deer from out of state to Processor but they were required to put them in a dump site. I assume a big hole in Pasture somewhere.

They left every day with a trailer load to dump.

That made more sense than forcing people to dump them on the side of the road. Wayne County looks like a deer dump everywhere.

 

[AT Hiker]

You would be amazed how many people are ignorant on CWD transport laws. Whether its hunting the CWD zone within TN or traveling out of state.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

You would be amazed how many people are ignorant on CWD transport laws. Whether its hunting the CWD zone within TN or traveling out of state.

With TWRA changing what areas are considered high risk mid-season, even I don't always know what falls within the CWD transport laws. And I consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable on game laws.

 

[AT Hiker]

With TWRA changing what areas are considered high risk mid-season, even I don't always know what falls within the CWD transport laws. And I consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable on game laws.

That is a excellent point, I honestly don't know what TN counties are what anymore.

Also, if a hunter or group of hunters didn't think deer hunting 24/7 like many of us, then they likely wouldn't even think transporting a carcass back home would be "illegal". I can almost guarantee people who only deer hunt Thanksgiving weekend with friends/family think and know nothing about CWD and the rules that follow.

 

[fairchaser]

There are so, so many ways for CWD to spread and add to it that it never dies, you have the perfect combination of variables that ensures its continued movement into unaffected areas. It's just a matter of time sadly. The good news is that in spite of its proliferation, it doesn't seem to greatly diminish the herd. It only seems to make it younger by killing off the older animals before their natural lifespan. This unfortunately is the bane of mature buck hunters. But a few always slip through, just fewer than before. And this will keep those of us who are dedicated eagerly looking forward to the next season.

 

[dogsled]

With that being said, I have read articles that suggested that scavengers may be able to spread the prions over pretty lengthy distances.

Seems very likely plausible that scavengers will aid the spread.

 

[dogsled]

At any rate, I'm resigned to the fact that it's here to stay and spread is inevitable. The only question is how fast.

I hunt right in the epicenter in Fayette county.

My thoughts exactly. I am originally from LaGrange but haven't hunted west TN in 25 years. We used to hunt Ames when I lived there.

 

[hammer33]

Here is my .o2.
For the average hunter cwd is a non issue. The vast majority of hunters are not trophy hunters. Since CWD mostly takes out the older animals, (and not a huge % of them) the average joe wont notice. Heck the average public land trophy hunter probably wont notice. Especially since other factors such as EHD, other hunters, old age, and autos are more likely to kill that big buck than CWD.

Now the guys who farm deer on captive ranches can have huge losses. When bucks are bringing $10k + if one of them gets CWD its an expensive loss. Just like if your prize bull dies its costly.

Guys who hunt intensively managed properties where each buck is known by trail camera photos and have a hit list..... they will notice if cwd takes out one of their target bucks. High fence game ranches are in the same boat.

Management agencies from a $$$ perspective LOVE cwd. Big budgets and federal $$$$$$ are being allocated to study and "deal" with it. Most game agencies answer is to "kill more deer and reduce the herd". Isn't that what they are afraid CWD will do? Kill a bunch of deer and reduce the herd? Northern states who went the "kill 2/3 of the herd" route still have CWD. So that method of control didn't work. Might have slowed the spread, Maybe? But it is still around and possibly killing all those deer could have contributed to the spread with concentrations of carcasses.

Fear and hype are the enemy of methodical logical thought, and CWD gets plenty of both. Now that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the mix, don't expect any official solution that doesn't require a large ongoing budget.

IS cwd the looming doom of deer hunting and possibly the human race IF it jumps species ?
I think NO.
I think it is entirely possible that CWD is a form of "deer scrapie" like the scrapie that affects sheep. Its probably always been around but only recently with high fence deer ranching and the advancement of testing, have we known what killed a deer. Prior to deer ranching, a random carcass found in the wild would be attributed to any number of factors.
I believe the biggest factor in CWD is the deer farming and extremely high density in the high fences which concentrates the deer. Much like how one sick kid will give 2/3 the toddlers in a preschool class the flu. Concentrating deer, sheep, or kids allows an infection the opportunity to quickly run through the group. Once it gets outside the high fence has it run through the wild herds knocking off 1/2 or more of the wild herds? Nope.

I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is for dealing with CWD. Perhaps it is hubris to believe that "we" need to "deal with it" at all. Maybe CWD is a naturally occurring illness like EHD, lumpy jaw, bot flys and a host of other issues ?

 

[Buzzard Breath]

Here is my .o2.
For the average hunter cwd is a non issue. The vast majority of hunters are not trophy hunters. Since CWD mostly takes out the older animals, (and not a huge % of them) the average joe wont notice. Heck the average public land trophy hunter probably wont notice. Especially since other factors such as EHD, other hunters, old age, and autos are more likely to kill that big buck than CWD.

Now the guys who farm deer on captive ranches can have huge losses. When bucks are bringing $10k + if one of them gets CWD its an expensive loss. Just like if your prize bull dies its costly.

Guys who hunt intensively managed properties where each buck is known by trail camera photos and have a hit list..... they will notice if cwd takes out one of their target bucks. High fence game ranches are in the same boat.

Management agencies from a $$$ perspective LOVE cwd. Big budgets and federal $$$$$$ are being allocated to study and "deal" with it. Most game agencies answer is to "kill more deer and reduce the herd". Isn't that what they are afraid CWD will do? Kill a bunch of deer and reduce the herd? Northern states who went the "kill 2/3 of the herd" route still have CWD. So that method of control didn't work. Might have slowed the spread, Maybe? But it is still around and possibly killing all those deer could have contributed to the spread with concentrations of carcasses.

Fear and hype are the enemy of methodical logical thought, and CWD gets plenty of both. Now that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the mix, don't expect any official solution that doesn't require a large ongoing budget.

IS cwd the looming doom of deer hunting and possibly the human race IF it jumps species ?
I think NO.
I think it is entirely possible that CWD is a form of "deer scrapie" like the scrapie that affects sheep. Its probably always been around but only recently with high fence deer ranching and the advancement of testing, have we known what killed a deer. Prior to deer ranching, a random carcass found in the wild would be attributed to any number of factors.
I believe the biggest factor in CWD is the deer farming and extremely high density in the high fences which concentrates the deer. Much like how one sick kid will give 2/3 the toddlers in a preschool class the flu. Concentrating deer, sheep, or kids allows an infection the opportunity to quickly run through the group. Once it gets outside the high fence has it run through the wild herds knocking off 1/2 or more of the wild herds? Nope.

I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is for dealing with CWD. Perhaps it is hubris to believe that "we" need to "deal with it" at all. Maybe CWD is a naturally occurring illness like EHD, lumpy jaw, bot flys and a host of other issues ?

You don't have your location in your profile. Do you currently hunt in a CWD zone and are speaking from experience?

 

[fairchaser]

Here is my .o2.
For the average hunter cwd is a non issue. The vast majority of hunters are not trophy hunters. Since CWD mostly takes out the older animals, (and not a huge % of them) the average joe wont notice. Heck the average public land trophy hunter probably wont notice. Especially since other factors such as EHD, other hunters, old age, and autos are more likely to kill that big buck than CWD.

Now the guys who farm deer on captive ranches can have huge losses. When bucks are bringing $10k + if one of them gets CWD its an expensive loss. Just like if your prize bull dies its costly.

Guys who hunt intensively managed properties where each buck is known by trail camera photos and have a hit list..... they will notice if cwd takes out one of their target bucks. High fence game ranches are in the same boat.

Management agencies from a $$$ perspective LOVE cwd. Big budgets and federal $$$$$$ are being allocated to study and "deal" with it. Most game agencies answer is to "kill more deer and reduce the herd". Isn't that what they are afraid CWD will do? Kill a bunch of deer and reduce the herd? Northern states who went the "kill 2/3 of the herd" route still have CWD. So that method of control didn't work. Might have slowed the spread, Maybe? But it is still around and possibly killing all those deer could have contributed to the spread with concentrations of carcasses.

Fear and hype are the enemy of methodical logical thought, and CWD gets plenty of both. Now that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the mix, don't expect any official solution that doesn't require a large ongoing budget.

IS cwd the looming doom of deer hunting and possibly the human race IF it jumps species ?
I think NO.
I think it is entirely possible that CWD is a form of "deer scrapie" like the scrapie that affects sheep. Its probably always been around but only recently with high fence deer ranching and the advancement of testing, have we known what killed a deer. Prior to deer ranching, a random carcass found in the wild would be attributed to any number of factors.
I believe the biggest factor in CWD is the deer farming and extremely high density in the high fences which concentrates the deer. Much like how one sick kid will give 2/3 the toddlers in a preschool class the flu. Concentrating deer, sheep, or kids allows an infection the opportunity to quickly run through the group. Once it gets outside the high fence has it run through the wild herds knocking off 1/2 or more of the wild herds? Nope.

I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is for dealing with CWD. Perhaps it is hubris to believe that "we" need to "deal with it" at all. Maybe CWD is a naturally occurring illness like EHD, lumpy jaw, bot flys and a host of other issues ?

I agree with most of this! I will add that as a hunter that has hunted in the center of CWD on Ames for the last 13 years, CWD has had an impact on the older bucks. There are fewer of them but it hasn't seemed to hurt the 3.5 year old cohort as much as the 4.5 year olds. This is not scientific but anecdotal from mine and other members camera surveys. There are still good bucks out there. But the 140 class 4.5+ year old buck is extremely rare anymore.

 

[BSK]

I agree with most of this! I will add that as a hunter that has hunted in the center of CWD on Ames for the last 13 years, CWD has had an impact on the older bucks. There are fewer of them but it hasn't seemed to hurt the 3.5 year old cohort as much as the 4.5 year olds. This is not scientific but anecdotal from mine and other members camera surveys. There are still good bucks out there. But the 140 class 4.5+ year old buck is extremely rare anymore.

What has been the buck harvest numbers in the area since the beginning of CWD harvest rules? I ask because killing more total bucks is the fastest way to reduce the buck age structure. Is the reduced buck age structure in the area due to CWD killing the mature animals, or is the reduced buck age structure due to more bucks being killed by hunters?

 

[BigAl]

What has been the buck harvest numbers in the area since the beginning of CWD harvest rules? I ask because killing more total bucks is the fastest way to reduce the buck age structure. Is the reduced buck age structure in the area due to CWD killing the mature animals, or is the reduced buck age structure due to more bucks being killed by hunters?

I'll let @fairchaser answer this, but Ames did away with their buck regs and declared open season (I think). So your question is valid. But I believe they will tell you the lack of mature buck sightings had already decreased as a result of CWD before the restrictions were changed.

 

[Tenn bound]

They say nose to nose contact thats why you dont want to run feeders,lick blocks ,ect ,ect .its comeing,quicker than they Anticipated.but its not new it started in california in cattle and sheep they do have antidotes for this disease but they wonte use it.to costly to distrabute.and being the twr is a private Identity and run by insurance companys are deer hunting are doomed.

 

[GRIT]

Do they test all the county's in Tennessee? I haven't heard of any testing in Davidson, Cheatham or any county in middle Tennessee.
It may be hear if they don't test for it you're not going to know.

 

[BSK]

They say nose to nose contact thats why you dont want to run feeders,lick blocks ,ect ,ect .its comeing,quicker than they Anticipated.but its not new it started in california in cattle and sheep they do have antidotes for this disease but they wonte use it.to costly to distrabute.and being the twr is a private Identity and run by insurance companys are deer hunting are doomed.

CWD did not start in California. It first occurred in a research facility in Colorado, when mule deer were kept in an enclosure that had previously held scrappie infected sheep. Then, without knowing the mule deer had contracted the prion disease, the deer were released to the wild. There is no antidote for prion-based diseases.