How many Does?

[Ski]

This is the first time I've encountered this problem, and could use some advice. A local farmer wants deer killed to alleviate the pressure on his 10acre bean field every year. I hung a few cameras and started glassing at various times of day over the past week. I've seen as many as 20 does at a time in the field during dawn & dusk, and no less than 7 at a time through the heat of the day. Cameras are showing them all day & night like an ant colony. No bucks, only does & fawns. From what I can tell there are 5 separate groups. They intermingle while in the field but enter & exit the field with their respective group. And he has cause for concern. They are destroying his beans.

There's nothing I know of to help his bean problem this year. I can only thin the population for next year. My question is how many does would need removed to make a difference? I'd like to simultaneously help him out but also still have a reasonable chance at hunting a buck. Should I clear some does early season with archery? Or wait until late season with rifle? I've always been on the other side of the coin with trying to increase the herd, not reduce it. This one is new to me.

 

[VolsMadness]

This is the first time I've encountered this problem, and could use some advice. A local farmer wants deer killed to alleviate the pressure on his 10acre bean field every year. I hung a few cameras and started glassing at various times of day over the past week. I've seen as many as 20 does at a time in the field during dawn & dusk, and no less than 7 at a time through the heat of the day. Cameras are showing them all day & night like an ant colony. No bucks, only does & fawns. From what I can tell there are 5 separate groups. They intermingle while in the field but enter & exit the field with their respective group. And he has cause for concern. They are destroying his beans.

There's nothing I know of to help his bean problem this year. I can only thin the population for next year. My question is how many does would need removed to make a difference? I'd like to simultaneously help him out but also still have a reasonable chance at hunting a buck. Should I clear some does early season with archery? Or wait until late season with rifle? I've always been on the other side of the coin with trying to increase the herd, not reduce it. This one is new to me.

Are there 20 adult does or 20 including the fawns? If 20 including the fawns, do you know the exact number of fawns?

 

[catman529]

I wouldn't even worry about buck hunting that spot, just stack the does up and donate whatever you can't fit in the freezer


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[MUP]

Sounds to me like, if the damage is done this year already, and you want to hunt for a buck, you might just start stacking the does in late Dec. Nothing wrong with killing a few early either tho, but with that many it won't hurt to kill a few along while hunting for bucks IMO.

 

[Shanman]

If he only has a 10 acre field, I would want to get on the does asap. Knock them back while they're on the beans hot and heavy, they won't be as concentrated once the beans are done, right? Make the landowner happy and you'll have permission there for a long time. Maybe have him apply for depredation permits? I bet if you get the does knocked back this year you'll see some bucks in there next year. Sounds like a great opportunity for you.

 

[2in1shot]

If there are that many adult does or family groups using that small of a field, the deer numbers are pretty high. If this is a place that you are looking to hunt for years to come, I would try and target the younger age range of does and kill 5-7 the first year. If it's not, I would kill every doe deer I saw. The farmer has made it known that he wants you to shoot deer. Plus the more of the does you shoot, theoretically equals more seen rutting action in November due to increased mate competition. Thus your best chance at a good buck.

 

[waynesworld]

I would start on the does right away and stick as many as you can. If you need some help i can come help i prefer doe's need to replenish a lot of freezers this year.

Also if you shot some but don't want to process can call me i can pick up and process it. I have some people who cant hunt that love deer meat.

 

[Ski]

Good advice guys. I appreciate it.

Yes, I do want to continue hunting years to come, and I initially asked for permission a few years ago but was denied. He hasn't allowed anybody to hunt in many, many years. I was a bit surprised when he approached me about it a couple weeks ago. Damage has already been done this year and beans will be picked before season really kicks off, so most anything I can do will be thinning for next season. We are looking into depredation tags as well.

 

[Ski]

I would start on the does right away and stick as many as you can. If you need some help i can come help i prefer doe's need to replenish a lot of freezers this year.

Also if you shot some but don't want to process can call me i can pick up and process it. I have some people who cant hunt that love deer meat.

Finding an outlet for the meat was/is a big concern for him and me both. Neither of us want any waste. I appreciate the offer and will run it by the farmer for sure.

 

[cbhunter]

Good advice guys. I appreciate it.

Yes, I do want to continue hunting years to come, and I initially asked for permission a few years ago but was denied. He hasn't allowed anybody to hunt in many, many years. I was a bit surprised when he approached me about it a couple weeks ago. Damage has already been done this year and beans will be picked before season really kicks off, so most anything I can do will be thinning for next season. We are looking into depredation tags as well.

Shanman made an excellent point! The farmer could care less about you shooting bucks. He approached you so that you can help alleviate his problem. Kill as many does as you can as fast as you can to let him know your there to help. The rest will fall in place.

I say this from experience. Lost one of my best farms ever in the exact scenario. Farmer asked us to come kill deer, he did t care what they were, he just wanted to protect his crops as wallet. Well dad and I were big buck hunters at the time and didn't hold up our end of the deal. That farm lasted 2 years for us. Still friends with the farmer but we failed him. Lesson learned

 

[megalomaniac]

get TWRA out there now to see the crop damage and get a depredation permit ASAP. Shoot at least 10 does and drag them out of the beans. Then hunt this fall the way you normally would do in any other situation.

 

[Headhunter]

Frist, for sure make the landowner happy.

Then, if landowner lets you manage it, Shoot only the momma does. Only the mature momma does and kill all of them you can.

You will be glad you did and start on the first day you can legally can and kill all you can.

And if there are truly to many, it would be good to get a professional to give you an idea of how many you need to kill, but you should kill them asap and kill them all season.

But, only shoot momma does and preferably mommas with little ones, especially if they have button bucks. The buttons will very likely make that area their CORE area. Also you help prevent killing any buttons and the young does, when they come into heat, will run around the proverbial chicken with its head cut off, and the bucks will come out to chase them, like you have never seen, well provided you have killed enough momma does.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

get TWRA out there now to see the crop damage and get a depredation permit ASAP. Shoot at least 10 does and drag them out of the beans. Then hunt this fall the way you normally would do in any other situation.

I agree with this. Should be easy for the farmer to obtain the permit.

 

[Andy S.]

How many acres does he have total? I see mention of the 10 acre bean field, but if the deer density in the general area is that extreme, shooting does off of his 10 acres only will likely not have much impact in my opinion.

 

[MUP]

How many acres does he have total? I see mention of the 10 acre bean field, but if the deer density in the general area is that extreme, shooting does off of his 10 acres only will likely not have much impact in my opinion.

I kinda wondered the same thing Andy, and about the surrounding properties as well. Are they developed, wooded, ag fields as well?

 

[megalomaniac]

How many acres does he have total? I see mention of the 10 acre bean field, but if the deer density in the general area is that extreme, shooting does off of his 10 acres only will likely not have much impact in my opinion.

I hate to say it as it goes against everything I do as a deer manager, but it doesn't even matter in this situation. The farmer will not be happy unless you kill some deer, even if it doesn't help his crops in the future. The key is to make an effort, remove a reasonable number of deer, make the farmer happy, then get to hunt for real the rest of the season. Rinse and repeat next year with a reasonable kill in an attempt to avoid a wholesale slaughter and removing dozens.

 

[Snake]

May be wrong but if the depredation permits are granted I didn't think you can keep the deer for process or can you ? If you want to hunt in the future try and satisfy farmer without destroying the herd I don't know if I would go that route (DP) . I have seen a place shot out in would you believe Lincoln Co.? Of course there were several hunting it and they shot everything they seen just padding numbers (2,000 acs). About three years and it wasn't worth a hoot . Biologist or someone with knowledge of such could probably give you a number to reduce the herd and it still be healthy . Of course the farmers request should be noted by all means and you hunting legal I don't think you could shoot it out unless there are a lot of hunters to hunt this place . How much acerage do he have ?

 

[Ski]

His overall acreage is a touch over 80. Only 10 is in beans and is fenced off from the cattle. Cows have the rest of the property. About half is pasture and half mature hardwood, albeit cattle utilized hardwoods. The Duck river runs north-south along the bottom side of the property with about a 20yd wide strip of timber separating it from the bean field. The south neighbor is another cattle farm, no crops. The north neighbor is currently a 40acre-ish corn field. To the east is housing, suburban, populated. The west neighbor, across the creek, is a solid several hundred acre farm of mixed ag and timber but no livestock. That farm has not been hunted in decades. The owner never has allowed hunting nor has he ever hunted.

I spoke with my farmer's son-in-law (farm partner) this morning. He says they are frustrated because they're losing money every day the deer are out there. I explained to him that while I very much appreciate the opportunity to hunt, nothing I can do will help him this year because by the time season opens it'll be harvest time. That's many more weeks of crop destruction. Anything I can do only helps with next year. He agreed and is going to look into getting depredation tags. I'm not sure where that leaves me, as a hunter, whether he'll still want me hunting beyond the culling or not. But I didn't want to mislead him into thinking I could save him money this year by letting me hunt. Hopefully I didn't talk them back into not allowing hunters again. I just wanted to be honest.

Thank you all for the advice and perspectives. I feel a little overwhelmed, to be honest.

 

[waynesworld]

I think and people can correct me but if he gets a depredation permit you can be put on the permit as to the one shooting and can list on the permit others that can help. You may get the info for him to show you are doing every thing you can and will be rewarded with life time partnership

 

[cbhunter]

I think and people can correct me but if he gets a depredation permit you can be put on the permit as to the one shooting and can list on the permit others that can help. You may get the info for him to show you are doing every thing you can and will be rewarded with life time partnership

I think you are right about that but maybe I'm wrong too.

This is a great idea if they will sign you on as shooter. This way you can avoid killing the bucks. I promise you that if they are doing the shooting, they will cull nothing! They will be allowed to spotlight them or anything I believe

 

[Andy S.]

How many acres does he have total? I see mention of the 10 acre bean field, but if the deer density in the general area is that extreme, shooting does off of his 10 acres only will likely not have much impact in my opinion.

I hate to say it as it goes against everything I do as a deer manager, but it doesn't even matter in this situation. The farmer will not be happy unless you kill some deer, even if it doesn't help his crops in the future. The key is to make an effort, remove a reasonable number of deer, make the farmer happy, then get to hunt for real the rest of the season. Rinse and repeat next year with a reasonable kill in an attempt to avoid a wholesale slaughter and removing dozens.

Agree if he's doing it just for "show", but do not expect a measurable benefit if surrounding properties are same deer density without same level of effort to thin the herd (remove does, lots of them, not bucks). His bean field will get blitzed next year too if neighboring properties have similar deer density.

 

[MUP]

Sounds like a great place for deer for sure, plenty of food all around.

 

[bowhunterfanatic]

How many acres does he have total? I see mention of the 10 acre bean field, but if the deer density in the general area is that extreme, shooting does off of his 10 acres only will likely not have much impact in my opinion.

I hate to say it as it goes against everything I do as a deer manager, but it doesn't even matter in this situation. The farmer will not be happy unless you kill some deer, even if it doesn't help his crops in the future. The key is to make an effort, remove a reasonable number of deer, make the farmer happy, then get to hunt for real the rest of the season. Rinse and repeat next year with a reasonable kill in an attempt to avoid a wholesale slaughter and removing dozens.

Agree if he's doing it just for "show", but do not expect a measurable benefit if surrounding properties are same deer density without same level of effort to thin the herd (remove does, lots of them, not bucks). His bean field will get blitzed next year too if neighboring properties have similar deer density.

I started to type this out earlier, but couldn't get it to come out this well. We fight this problem yearly. We are allowed to hunt because farmer wants deer killed. We hammer the does, then next year he has the same crop damage issues. Literally nobody around us for a few square miles is trying to thin the herd, so no mater how many we kill it never does much good. I fear that we will end up losing the hunting rights one day because the farmer just doesn't really understand that even if he had 10 DAs (Deer Assassin) hunting the ground it still probably wouldn't be enough to make a difference.

 

[Bone Collector]

I wouldn't even worry about buck hunting that spot, just stack the does up and donate whatever you can't fit in the freezer


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this^^^ the guy wants help killing does. If it is in Unit L (I assume yes) kill 3 a day. Eventually they will go nocturnal. You will not kill them all. You may have to hunt it, give it a week break, go back and hunt it, to be as successful as possible.

I would forge a good relationship. once the work is done (does thinned down) hunt it more the way you like. Heck he may know someone else that needs help, or may lease land to farm in the future, and get you in there.

 

[catman529]

If he gets a depredation permit and you can put people on the permit, put me down lol. I ain't far from the Duck


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[catman529]

I wouldn't even worry about buck hunting that spot, just stack the does up and donate whatever you can't fit in the freezer


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this^^^ the guy wants help killing does. If it is in Unit L (I assume yes) kill 3 a day. Eventually they will go nocturnal. You will not kill them all. You may have to hunt it, give it a week break, go back and hunt it, to be as successful as possible.

I would forge a good relationship. once the work is done (does thinned down) hunt it more the way you like. Heck he may know someone else that needs help, or may lease land to farm in the future, and get you in there.

they'll only go nocturnal where they're being hunted... they'll move somewhere else in the daytime, with 80 acres it could be strategically hunted to kill at least a few before they start to stay away from the property


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[Bone Collector]

I wouldn't even worry about buck hunting that spot, just stack the does up and donate whatever you can't fit in the freezer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

this^^^ the guy wants help killing does. If it is in Unit L (I assume yes) kill 3 a day. Eventually they will go nocturnal. You will not kill them all. You may have to hunt it, give it a week break, go back and hunt it, to be as successful as possible.

I would forge a good relationship. once the work is done (does thinned down) hunt it more the way you like. Heck he may know someone else that needs help, or may lease land to farm in the future, and get you in there.

they'll only go nocturnal where they're being hunted... they'll move somewhere else in the daytime, with 80 acres it could be strategically hunted to kill at least a few before they start to stay away from the property


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Oh I didn't read it was 80 acres, I saw 10 acre bean field. Guess I should read more [emoji23]


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[catman529]

I wouldn't even worry about buck hunting that spot, just stack the does up and donate whatever you can't fit in the freezer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

this^^^ the guy wants help killing does. If it is in Unit L (I assume yes) kill 3 a day. Eventually they will go nocturnal. You will not kill them all. You may have to hunt it, give it a week break, go back and hunt it, to be as successful as possible.

I would forge a good relationship. once the work is done (does thinned down) hunt it more the way you like. Heck he may know someone else that needs help, or may lease land to farm in the future, and get you in there.

they'll only go nocturnal where they're being hunted... they'll move somewhere else in the daytime, with 80 acres it could be strategically hunted to kill at least a few before they start to stay away from the property


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Oh I didn't read it was 80 acres, I saw 10 acre bean field. Guess I should read more [emoji23]


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it was a reply not the original post. I doubt the bean field would be worth much come season anyway. I sure wouldn't mind helping out with the task myself. Lol


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[Bone Collector]

I wouldn't even worry about buck hunting that spot, just stack the does up and donate whatever you can't fit in the freezer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

this^^^ the guy wants help killing does. If it is in Unit L (I assume yes) kill 3 a day. Eventually they will go nocturnal. You will not kill them all. You may have to hunt it, give it a week break, go back and hunt it, to be as successful as possible.

I would forge a good relationship. once the work is done (does thinned down) hunt it more the way you like. Heck he may know someone else that needs help, or may lease land to farm in the future, and get you in there.

they'll only go nocturnal where they're being hunted... they'll move somewhere else in the daytime, with 80 acres it could be strategically hunted to kill at least a few before they start to stay away from the property


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Oh I didn't read it was 80 acres, I saw 10 acre bean field. Guess I should read more [emoji23]


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it was a reply not the original post. I doubt the bean field would be worth much come season anyway. I sure wouldn't mind helping out with the task myself. Lol


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Me neither [emoji23]


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[Ski]

Met with the farmer this evening and he said they have decided to take the loss on beans this year and will not be planting crops again on that field. They instead will be planting cereal grains for hay, starting with some type of rye this fall. He said he expects the deer to be just as thick as they are on the beans, so he still wants me in there hunting, and still wants the herd thinned as much as possible. He feels as if the deer are competing with his cattle. He raises angus breeding stock, some pretty high level cows as I understand it.

Anyway, that relieves the stress of thinking he might expect me to save his beans, and I still have a place to hunt. Now I just gotta figure out how many to cull.