Has the Whitetail Rut Become Abnormal?

[Boll Weevil]

I tried to read it, I really did...but the article lost me at Kroll, November 15, Alsheimer, and moon. After that my eyes glazed over and my brain simply refused to consume anymore bunk.

 

[BSK]

Uh huh...

[said with an incredulous roll of the eyes]

 

[Elmer]

Uh huh...

[said with an incredulous roll of the eyes]

Haha

 

[Columbia Scott]

Rut changed only because of the full moon this year. next year will be back to normal with chasing during the day. Just watch.

 

[Snake]

While I tend to agree that a mature buck is easier to kill during the rut I think most hunters don't tend to put much hooplah on the rut , they just hunt every time they can ! I thought the rut was some what normal in areas I hunted but heck I really didn't hunt as much as I normally do .I think we ought to save our favorite spots for rut hunting and just hunt the rest of time you are able to enjoying the time you have a field . You will be old before you know it but I do realize that those that hunt only mature bucks are in a different class than most of us .All have a good night !!

 

[BHC]

Rut changed only because of the full moon this year. next year will be back to normal with chasing during the day. Just watch.

I saw more daytime rut activity this yr, than I ever have on our club... Moon is one of the least powerful influences on deer. Whether it's movement, the rut, feeding, etc.
Most powerful is the foes biological clock. They come in nearly the same every yr, just as women do every month. Next is weather. And after that maybe food availability. Then everything else is so minor we likely shouldn't even concern ourselves....

 

[Mike Belt]

Until someone comes up with a more plausible reason I'm sticking to the "weather" as the excuse for the lack of a visible rut. The persistent cold weather is the only thing different in the equation this past season from season's past and it "appeared" that the rut just trickled on from beginning to end.

 

[Winchester]

We definitely had a different rut here this yr but the Moon and especially the weather had very little to do with it IMO! The Moon is always there and in the last 30 yrs of hunting the rut I have never saw it have much of an impact. The weather was as good as we have likely ever had in November this yr, not too warm, not too cold, just right for great daylight movement based on 30 yrs of rut hunting observations. All that said I cant explain why we had such a muted rut and even lack of Buck sign made this yr? I do think this all has something to do with 2007, which was the most disastrous year for deer that I have ever saw!
Things simply haven't been the same since. I keep waiting for things to go back to normal, yet they keep getting more weird each yr?????

 

[woodsman87]

I don't know how many times I have said this, but it has been alot.

I have never been on the November 15 or moon bandwagon. I am not a biologist. I am a hunter, and every fall where I grew up hunting for many years the bucks chase the does "mostly" from November 21-December 10. There is always cases where I see bucks chasing before and after these dates, young and old, but I would say my peak chasing times for my hunting spot is those 2 or 3 weeks. If I saw Alshiemer or Kroll myself, I would tell them this to their face, and not listen to any argument they have. We always see fawns the last week in June or the first week in July. Perfect timing of about 200 day gestation period.

Nice try Dr. Troll and Asshiemer

 

[W.Seay]

Until someone comes up with a more plausible reason I'm sticking to the "weather" as the excuse for the lack of a visible rut. The persistent cold weather is the only thing different in the equation this past season from season's past and it "appeared" that the rut just trickled on from beginning to end.

X2

 

[Hunter 257W]

Speaking of oddities this year, this is the 1st time since I've been watching(9 years) that my deer have used salt licks heavily in the Winter. I checked one of my licks last Saturday and it was wall to wall fresh tracks.

 

[BSK]

First, I would need to see proof the rut occurred locally at a different time than it normal does. But without being able to shoot a bunch of does in March to get fetal measurements, we'll never know if estrus timing was actually different.

However, it sure APPEARED to be different, from every measuring system I have available. But that doesn't mean it was different.

 

[woodsman87]

And I think the weather and hunting pressure has 99% influence on how we experieince the rut. If it is hot, then the does move at night causing the bucks to move more at night, although you could get one cruising. Also pressure, causing nocturnal deer activiity, bucks and does, young and old.

This fall is everything I wanted, cold during the rut. IT was actually nearly average or below avearage all deer season. Loved it. My best deer season in five or six years. Now If I could just go more!

 

[woodsman87]

He is pretty much saying BSK and others are not real biologist because they do not study real deer? Is that what he is saying when they study abnormal deer heards? Just weird to me. I guess to the rich people like him normal deer heards include highly managed property somewhere in Illinois.

 

[MattR]

It was spot on at the place I hunted during the rut. Seen more activity then I did last yeat. It was chasing and checking scrapes. Its was the first and second weekend of ML.

I had one of the most exciting hunts I've ever had this year. Opening day of ML I had a nice 3.5 yo 8 point chasing a doe, then they both ended up bedding down about 40-50 yds in front of me. Seen about twenty deer that day

However, it seemed I was the only one seeing much rutting activity, even on this property of 800 acres. Usually when they are chasing I hear a lot of gun shots, this year, not so much.

A couple things worth mentioning, he hunted the stand 3 days after ML opener and didnt see jack. The next two times the stand was hunted there was only 4 deer seen.

The next weekend I hunted a fresh spot, seen probably 25+ deer with a lot of rutting activity. The next 3 times it was hunted, the total deer seen was 6.

It seemed the places we didnt hunt during bow season had the most rut activity.

 

[hunterncoach]

The world is very dynamic and I believe several factors influence a deer heard's rut timing. This being said, I have always believed that the doe's estrus cycle went largely, not totally, off the photo period...(just like the leaves on the trees) In Montgomery County the leaves changed 2 weeks later than normal...So that is my reason for the MAIN difference in rutting behavior observations. I also think that warm weather has an influence on the amount of daylight activity a buck will exhibit when looking for does.

 

[landman]

Nope
One of the Strongest we have seen in Stewart County
In a while, activity right on time in November
and December. But I'm hunting the same
700 acres during that time, Poser I know
you hunted different places across the state,
I planned on staying in the farm all year with
limited pressure and wind picking my days.

It worked well

 

[Mike Belt]

I agree that we had prime weather hunting conditions leading up to what should have been a great pre rut and rut but the big difference I saw was that it was consistent. There was never a snap (like the flip of a light switch) turning the rut into high gear. That snap is when we generally see daytime movement fire up. I believe that the rut happened but it never got beyond low key. The sign was there. Scrapes were everywhere but another difference is that the bucks never let up off of them. I never saw a period of time where they went dead during the entire season. I also agree that there are some locations where the observed rut may have been as good or better than ever...but it wasn't around the Hardeman/Fayette county area. That difference between prior consistent cold weather and the "snap" is the only difference I see between this year and all the years prior to it including 2007. I repeat....until someone comes up with a viable answer to just why, the weather is the only apparent factor that was the difference between the years. It may not be the only reason and it may have nothing to do with it at all, but that's all I can see different.

 

[Boone 58]

First, I would need to see proof the rut occurred locally at a different time than it normal does. But without being able to shoot a bunch of does in March to get fetal measurements, we'll never know if estrus timing was actually different.

However, it sure APPEARED to be different, from every measuring system I have available. But that doesn't mean it was different.

This season all my rutting activity was seen in the MZ season and the first week of gun.........once Dec got here I saw little. What ever that means....................

 

[deerhunter10]

best rut we have had in a very long time maybe ever. the rut seem to last for ever starting around opening day of ml and it seemed to go on til the end of the first week of December. we saw hard chasing that whole time. lots of scrapes that got hit a whole lot. very call friendly deer. we called in a ton. just a great rut. we saw young all the way to mature deer. some running so hard you could scream at them and they weren't stopping. now last year was the worst rut I have ever seen the 2012 season was terrible. worst rut ive ever seen. its very interesting how different it is from county to county.

 

[102]

Has the Whitetail Rut Become Abnormal?

NOPE!!!

It has always been..."abnormal".

After 33 plus years deer hunting and closer to 50 years of being in the outdoors, I have learned one thing for sure.

Nature is not "normal".

In fact, the only constant in nature is change.

There are ebb and flows, peaks and valleys, and cycles of all kind.

Over a lifetime in the woods, there will always be those magical years we look back on, and forward to, that stand out above others.

IMO, if anything, those are the "abnormal" years.

I also believe that nature is very slow to change for the most part.

 

[BSK]

Is that what he is saying when they study abnormal deer heards? Just weird to me.

What Kroll is hinting at is a problem that USED TO BE true. In essence, years ago, studies to determine what was "normal" behavior and biology of deer were conducted on herds with highly skewed social dynamics due to over-harvest of bucks, under-harvest of does, and in herds with excessive densities for the habitat. These deer herds were not behaving normally due to their skewed social dynamics, hence any information collected from these herds were not examples of "normal" behavior/biology.

However, those problems have been corrected over the last 15 years in many parts of the country. Studies conducted over the last decade of more "normally structured" deer herds--and there are many, many of them--still clearly indicate that breeding occurs at the same time each year in any given location. Now there ARE conditions that can alter local breeding timing for a given location, but those conditions are usually localized, and won't cause changes in breeding timing across the entire country.

The fact that Kroll is teaming with Alsheimer and Laroche--whose theories on moon phase driving breeding timing has UNEQUIVOCALLY been disproven--tells me all I need to know. Kroll has truly lost his mind. He went from a highly respected biologist to a nutcase pushing the most outrageous ideas. And interestingly, those ideas just HAPPEN to be highly profitable to himself. Hmmmm...

 

[Boll Weevil]

I repeat....until someone comes up with a viable answer to just why, the weather is the only apparent factor that was the difference between the years.

Same theory here Mr. Belt. It was COLD...I mean sustained cold for weeks and that's very different than what we typically see. I too believe the deer (and an observable rut) were affected by the weather.

 

[Winchester]

I repeat....until someone comes up with a viable answer to just why, the weather is the only apparent factor that was the difference between the years.

Same theory here Mr. Belt. It was COLD...I mean sustained cold for weeks and that's very different than what we typically see. I too believe the deer (and an observable rut) were affected by the weather.

Guys, I can see your point, and I agree 100% that weather can dictate daytime movement a great deal, especially rutting behavior. All that said, cold weather is a GOOD thing pertaining to daytime rutting behavior. In my 33 years of deer hunting I have never saw cold weather do anything but HELP daytime movement during the rut! Even very cold weather normally does nothing but make movement better. Our Nov weather was good, cold, but not super cold at all, matter of fact the coldest night we had here during that time frame was 19 deg. The temps we had fell right in the wheelhouse of great rut weather historically. We also had some warm ups during that time with cold weather then coming back in, none of which did a thing for helping movement! Also another factor was the TOTAL absence of buck sign made leading up to or during the rut? I cant fathom that good weather would do anything but HELP with this scenario?? Now we did have a COMPLETE acorn failure here, which I think really hurt the amount of buck sign made and contributed to the muted rut we had, which is normal and I have saw that before. The big ? is why did areas with a decent acorn crop experience the same thing in many cases? I don't know the answers but once again things haven't been normal here since 2007???

 

[Boll Weevil]

All good points Winchester, and I genuinely appreciate the perspective.

My style of hunting over the years has evolved a good bit and I've had to change my thinking quite alot in the "conventional wisdom" department. Deer don't move when it's windy nor during midday :whistle:...I had to unlearn a lot of stuff. I've always been told the colder the better when it comes to deer movement, but my observations have been different. With our southern deer, I've observed evidence to the contrary. When lows are in the teens to about the mid 20s I actually see far less movement. Day after day of this we had this year, right during what should have been primetime.

Sitting long hours in the stand affords a man lots of time to think and this year with what I'd always believed was ideal conditions for an observable rut, it just didn't pan out. The only thing I could see that was different (or feel in this case) was the sustained cold.

I know it can't possibly be this simplistic, and it's just one year's worth of data points but I've certainly logged it as a wierd anomoly. The next time we see conditions like this year maybe I'll have something meaningful to compare against.

 

[xatxay]

It seemed to me that we also had a milder summer (fewer days over 90 deg) with regular rain. My lawn never turned brown. I had to mow every week.
Could this have produced above normal browse in the thickets which allowed the does feed in the cover; limiting sightings?

 

[Hunter 257W]

What I find odd is that myself and a few others had a very good year. My best ever for seeing bucks. Now keep in mind that even though this was my best ever, I did not see the numbers nor the intensity of chasing/cruising bucks some of you talk about and I'm on the Eastern edge of Unit L. I saw 10 bucks and hunted every weekend and probably 10 other days - mostly just mornings 2 to 4 hours per hunt. My acorn crop was heavy too. There are still a lot of red oak acorns on the ground now in fact. The whites are getting sparse but still some there.

 

[Lost Lake]

I saw the best chasing in Henry county that I've seen in a long time, and about two weeks earlier than I normally see it. I've seen fewer and fewer does over the past five years and its gotten to the point where I'll only let my daughter shoot one unless I start seeing more.

I can't explain it.

 

[bowriter]

An absolutely perfect example of Krollistics direct from the Deer Doctor. Long ago he found it easier to just change science to suit his perticular sermon for the day.

 

[102]

You guys say what you want about moon, position, phase, weather, hot, cold, ETC.

But this is what my 33 years in the deer woods have taught me:
ALL these things have some affect on rut behavior. ALL OF THEM.

And I will also include, in the areas I most frequent...FOOD. In particular, mast crop. As most of the places I frequent are mature hardwood forests.

I have seen, year after year a direct correlation between the amount of acorns in the woods and the intensity of the rut, DAY OR NIGHT.

If it is really hot, most movement occurs during the cooler parts of the day, and at night.

If it is really cold, as it was this November, I see more daytime movement. But if there is little fat on deer, due to poor mast crop production (ESPECIALLY White Oaks), then I have recorded poor rutting activity, day or night.

And this season, in the areas I hunt, mast was low, body fat on does we killed during the peak chase times (around November 10th), was low, and movement was defintely lower than optimal years.

This came as no surprise to me. I have seen the same pattern in years past, and am sure I will again.
It seems to follow very wet Springs. And Spring 2013 was VERY wet.

On the flip side, we generally see lots of DEER movement (searching for food) during low mast crop years (not to be confused with chasing). It generally occurs prior to and after peak chasing times.

What has me puzzled is we never really saw that much deer movement.
In fact, overall deer sightings were way down for our group.
And I am talking about Hamilton County, Coffee, Franklin, Grundy, and Southern Illinois.