Deer hunting, a "rich mans sport"

[AT Hiker]

Not to hijack TNdeerguys thread...

Who actually thinks and believes this? Im not rich and my future is not pointing in that direction either, yet my hunting has not suffered. My priorities have changed to accommodate my hunting lifestyle though.


I did cut cable, it was becoming to "rich" for my blood. Saved me over $1,000 a year, now if I could find a nice lease.

Do wealthy individuals play a vital role in the game management philosophy? Sure, some states auction premo tags off to those willing to drop $10k plus. If I was wealthy I would do the same. Typically that money benefits the common hunter over the wealthy one. So would we rather have those wealthy people fighting with us or against us?





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[Hunter 257W]

Re: Deer hunting, a

Where I see hunting becoming more of, if not a "Rich" man's sport, certainly a "Well-off" man's sport is due to limited availability of land to hunt. Large deer herds and older bucks have driven up the demand for places to hunt and land owners have discovered they can get paid to allow hunting. It don't take long before everybody wants to get paid for any tract of land of significant size. And you can't blame a land owner for wanting to make a little money on their investment. Also so many people are now buying property for the sole purpose of hunting deer. Land that used to be nearly worthless and sold as part of a larger row crop or cattle farm is now being cut off the farmland and sold separately, often as high per acre as prime row crop land. Since land is limited in availability demand drives the price and only the wealthiest can get the land. That sets the price to a point where many many hunters have zero chance to pay for it.

 

[AT Hiker]

I understand the land availability issue, yet public land is still abound for all to use.

Now is the public land quality there? Thats up for debate but then again is deer hunting solely about killing any deer, a buck, a lot of deer, big buck...see where Im going?

Deer hunting doesnt require much money.


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[Hunter 257W]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I understand the land availability issue, yet public land is still abound for all to use.

Now is the public land quality there? Thats up for debate but then again is deer hunting solely about killing any deer, a buck, a lot of deer, big buck...see where Im going?

Deer hunting doesnt require much money.


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True, you can still hunt and spend very little. Buy one rifle, one set of WalMart camo, annual license and a box of ammo every few years and really spend practically nothing.

 

[Jcalder]

If you want a good quality experience it's gonna take some money. Not everyone has the luxury to lease huge tracts of land. There is some decent public land but my experience is its overrun with people. When I'm hunting I don't really want to be bothered with someone walking in on me.


Big or small, kill em all

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I think the original thread was aimed more at the philosophy of the so called QDMA movement in America (not just TN) and the issues that the changing mindsets have caused on the sport to date as well as what will happen in the future.

Anyone who started hunting in the 80's and 90's can remember a time before TV hunting shows and Magazines started changing hunter's mindsets, to hunt for big bucks. when i started you were lucky to see a deer in Mid TN. If you saw a legal buck, you shot it no questions asked. If you succeeded in killing it you were the hero of the moment. The sport was purer then IMO it was about meat and being in the woods. Hard for a non hunter to really say anything about the sport, other than "those poor deer, but at least they are being eaten".

Over the last 10-15 years there has been a major shift in hunter's mindsets to focus on large antlered bucks. Since then private land by permission has gotten extremely hard to find. Land leases are ridiculous in many cases, and now the TWRC has been pressured to lower limits to facilitate a reduction in the # of bucks being killed and whether anybody wants to admit it or not, it is because a lot of hunters only care, or at least their main focus is big bucks. I'm partially guilty in that I do only hunt larger bucks on my small private tracks I have, but I also hunt for meat and shoot does, and hunt public land. Sometimes I just wish we could go back to the way it was and celebrate shooting a spike and not have a huge segment of hunter's bashing away, because "there is no challenge" in shooting that small buck. Who cares....

 

[megalomaniac]

Re: Deer hunting, a

dunno.... I have several friends here in MS who make $30,000/yr and still can afford to lease good hunting land for $30/acre. I never really thought of $30,000/ yr income as rich. They kill way bigger deer than I do every year by paying the premium.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I don't think its a rich mans sport necessary.

I think we have all started somewhere in deer hunting. I remember my first deer hunt. It was with my fathers Japanese Arisika 6.5 Jap rifle, a pair of motorcycle boots, a army coat and blue jeans.Killed deer just fine with that for a couple of years till I upgraded to a Marlin 30-30. Then it just got to be improvements after improvements.

A man can buy a decent rifle say a Ruger America scoped for around $500 or if you really wanted to go cheap you could go with a Military Bolt Action for under $200.

I hunted in Military BDU for years and got by just fine. They can be bought for under $50. For that matter a set of Blue Jeans and a dark coloured shirt/jacket will work. Ive done it on afternoons where I left from work and it did the job when I did my job.



Tags are not that expensive in the grand part of it. About $70 for a basic Hunting and Rifle tag.

Hunting access may be the biggest argument. There is plenty of land to hunt (Public) if you look for it and know when to avoid the crowds. So that part is FREE. If you are planning on hunting the weekends or only on opening weekends well expect the worse possible hunting conditions and be expecting to move from your favourite spot. Better have a plan B, C and D.

Now if you start diving off the deep end of things,, buying bows, muzzleloaders, hunting leases, buying land, building expensive shoot houses, Buying the best of this and that when it comes to hunting toys,, yes it gets expensive and yes you better have some deep pockets.

So NO I don't think its necessarily a rich man sport.

 

[jd1983]

I'd agree that hunting itself isn't a rich man's sport but private land access is more difficult without some money. That being said, can't someone get in on a lease for $500 - $1,000 a year? It seems like most middle class individuals can reprioritize and save that amount up.

Sure, some states auction premo tags off to those willing to drop $10k plus.

$10k is chump change when it comes to bighorn sheep auction tags.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors ... ghorn-tag/

 

[Urban_Hunter]

Bone collector's post took me back to my first hunts. Mine were with an sks bought out of a pallet of them, it was $80. Old man bought Russian military ammo to go with it, if I remember it was $2 a box. I hunted in military surplus camo. When ANYONE in my family killed a deer, it was all the talk. Aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents would all come to see it... Even if it was a yearling doe. Buck? You mean a spike! I hunted my first year without ever seeing a deer. Hunting has changed, and I often take it for granted. As for cost, it can be done as cheaply or expensive as you wish. A $100 rifle and a license can get you more in a week than I probably got in my first three years


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[Buzzard Breath]

Re: Deer hunting, a

At this present time, No, I don't consider deer hunting to be a rich man's sport. After the initial purchase of a gun, the expenses are really minimal each year. Hunting Public land may not be as prosperous as hunting a lease, but some of it isn't bad; and this is coming from someone who hunts East TN.

However, I do think that if we don't become more proactive in acquiring more land, and maintaining our positive relationships with the non-hunting public, it will start to become that way. There are simply way too many WMA's that we could loose the rights to hunt on in the drop of a hat. To name a few:

PRESIDENTS ISLAND - 6,300 acres - industrial land. Someday this will be sold and developed.
MEEMAN-SHELBY FOREST STATE PARK AND NATURAL AREA - 13,000 acres - State Park. If enough of the non-hunting public complain, this can be closed.
EDGAR EVINS STATE PARK - 6,000 acres - State Park. If enough of the non-hunting public complain, this can be closed.
FALL CREEK FALLS STATE PARK - 7,000 acres - State Park. If enough of the non-hunting public complain, this can be closed.
PICKETT STATE FOREST - 11,000 acres
PRENTICE COOPER STATE FOREST - 24,000 acres
OAK RIDGE - 37,000 acres - This has been closed on multiple occasions in the past due to security reasons.
STANDING STONE STATE FOREST - 8,764 acres
CHUCK SWAN STATE FOREST - 24,444 acres
BIG SOUTH FORK - 125,000 acres (some in KY) - This is run by the National Park Service and is one of only a few National Parks that hunting is permitted in.

Keep in mind places like Enterprise South and Old Hickory Lock 5 where they essentially closed it down. As well as Cheatham, where they closed all the secondary roadways because TWRA didn't have the man power to maintain it (this was reversed).

In addition, places such as LAND BETWEEN THE LAKES NATIONAL RECREATION AREA - 170,000 acres (I think roughly 70,000 acres are in TN), SOUTH CHEROKEE NF - 250,000 acres & NORTH CHEROKEE NF - acreage not listed in brochure, were all on the chopping block earlier this year as the federal government was considering transferring these back to the state under a trust agreement that could have possibly closed them to certain public uses.

This made me also think of TVA land. The federal government has been threatening to sell this for years. Public hunting would then depend on whatever the new owner feels like doing with it. I have a feeling that it would be leased like the old timber lands were.

As you can see, we really need to be proactive in acquiring public hunting land. If/when we start to loose some of these lands, lease prices are going to start to rise as more and more people enter the leasing pool.

 

[easy45]

I do believe that eventually it will be a rich mans game as far as leases go and folks like me will be relegated to public land, the two places I have right now are shaky at best


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[Crosshairy]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I think that deer hunting today *increasingly* requires either more time or more money that it did in years past. You must use either time or money to obtain/figure out where to go, because of the complications of private land access. If you have time available (a young broke single person, for example), you can still hunt on the cheap. Catman has entertained us for years with examples of what a young, motivated person can do if he applies himself to the task and dedicates the time to figure it out - many times he pulls it off with little/no money spent.

I currently pay relatively big bucks to hunt a big lease, but before last year I hunted public land almost exclusively. The difference between me and most people that I knew that deer hunted was that I was willing/able to research places that others didn't commonly go on public land, and was able to kill several deer a year with only a modest number of days afield and no money spent paying for access. This strategy involved questionable parking jobs, long walks, boat rides, wading through swamps, many hours of internet research, and a good bit of boot leather. In return, I was able to (mostly) hunt undisturbed and have a fun time.

What most of my acquaintances who hunted wanted was a "convenient" way of hunting "without so much trouble" - a place where you could build a box blind and drive up to it with the 4-wheeler pulled behind the big pickup, shoot something from a heated blind, and load it up without their forehead getting sweaty.

Because Americans are mostly entitled and lazy nowadays, a large segment of the hunting population has become increasingly spoiled. Many of us are also out of shape (preaching to the choir), which means we are mentally AND physically unwilling/unable to do what it takes to hunt "on the cheap". On top of that, we are more stressed for time, because our family traditions often move away from hunting OR now include baseball/soccer/cheer-leading/karate/football/piano /dance/basketweaving on the side.

If you go back to the old-school ways of hunting, where so many conveniences didn't exist in the first place, you'll find the original sport sitting there, waiting to be enjoyed in a way that isn't really all that different from the stories our grandfathers told. We create many of our own entanglements, but most of those are arbitrary rules/goals that exist only because we decided they should.

In a nutshell, quit doing a bunch of other stuff and make time to hunt, and then you can stay in the woods and fields on public land and out of the poor house.

 

[Crosshairy]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I don't think deer hunting itself is inherently expensive, but I do think that trophy deer hunting certainly can be expensive and, since an increasing amount of hunters are or are becoming self described "trophy" hunters, there is more and more expectation and desire for trophy managed hunting grounds, thus driving the cost of land access and/or making a guy with 80 or even 500 acres miserable because the surrounding neighbors are not trophy hunters.

I suppose the ultimate question would be "are the rising costs of hunting in line with inflation?"

Compared with many other user groups and outdoor pursuits, hunting is very expensive. For example, if you want to paddle a remote river in Alaska, that's a $2,000-$3000 trip, but if you want to paddle and HUNT moose on a remote river in AK, that's a $7,500-$15,000 trip. Fees, tags, permits, gear, and other costs certainly are not going to get any cheaper, but, there are ways to cut corners and hunt for as reasonable as possible in terms of costs.

Good point - the OP's topic was about deer hunting, but I agree that certain kinds of hunting are certainly in the realm of the "rich".

To be fair, most hunting that we do is really a "rich" person's sport when you look at world wealth statistics. Most people in the world don't have hundreds (forget thousands) of dollars a year extra to spend on licenses, gear, and fuel to drive all over the countryside.

The fact that we can even debate this topic without having an obvious and concrete answer says a lot about how blessed we are to live in this country.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer hunting, a

Generally speaking, deer hunting is either as expensive or as inexpensive as we choose to make it.
None of us need all the gimmicks and "new" equipment that are so heavily marketed to us.

Again, generally speaking, deer hunting is cheaper than golfing, annual deer hunting cost less for the average deer hunter than what that same deer hunter spends annually on cable TV.

More an issue of priorities than costs.

Also, generally speaking, public land deer hunting in Tennessee is better today than it's ever been.
It may not be as "private" as SOME private land hunting, but more of it has deer, more of it has more deer, than compared to a decade or two ago. And as much as any of us complain about other public land hunters messing up our hunting periodically, there are fewer hunters hunting public land today than back in the 90's. What's "bad" about public land hunting isn't anything new, but may not be as "bad" as it's been in times past.

Whether you're hunting mainly public or private lands in TN, realize these are the good ole days of deer hunting in Tennessee, at least for the majority of TN's deer hunters.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer hunting, a

There is also about a third of us who smoke one or more packs of cigarettes daily.
That annual expense exceeds the annual cost of the average TN hunter's deer hunting expenses.
Heck, I bet quite a few TN deer hunters are spending more on marijuana than deer hunting.

I do realize that many are less fortunate than average, and some are truly struggling to be able to deer hunt. But for a majority of us, it's more about life choices, as to what type deer hunting experiences we're having.

 

[AT Hiker]

At this present time, No, I don't consider deer hunting to be a rich man's sport. After the initial purchase of a gun, the expenses are really minimal each year. Hunting Public land may not be as prosperous as hunting a lease, but some of it isn't bad; and this is coming from someone who hunts East TN.

However, I do think that if we don't become more proactive in acquiring more land, and maintaining our positive relationships with the non-hunting public, it will start to become that way. There are simply way too many WMA's that we could loose the rights to hunt on in the drop of a hat. To name a few:



As you can see, we really need to be proactive in acquiring public hunting land. If/when we start to loose some of these lands, lease prices are going to start to rise as more and more people enter the leasing pool.

I agree totally and accruing access and ownership of public lands should be the forefront of outdoorsmen and state agencies. It starts with education...then the evil money comes into play.




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[Good time Charlie]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I just don't know how much the lease thing has caught on here in the east,but I feel confident I could go to several different farms and hunt if I needed.
But I have all I need right here on my place that I live.And if I wanted I could hunt the neighbors farms.
Not seeing the rich man thing here..

 

[Carnage]

Re: Deer hunting, a

Sure, things have changed...however, I believe for my situation the biggest change has been me. As I get older, I want to be more comfortable (better clothing, better equipment). I want to be more successful (better equipment, access to better land and changing the land I have access to). I also enjoy more of the 'social' aspects of the sport (the camaraderie around food plots, hanging stands clearing access points) which is probably the more expensive parts.

Some days I may even regress to my earlier, more blood thirsty self and shoot the first deer I see. I struggled with this a bit and went through the whole self analysis stage and reached this conclusion. Unless this is your job, you're meant to enjoy it...that's why it's called recreation. So do what makes you happy (as long as it's legal). It's amazing how quickly the joy returns when you stop hunting for what others think you should.

If you're miserable, stop hunting...make way for someone else. None of us needs to hunt for meat.

If you enjoy it, and find yourself unable to sitdown waiting for the clock to hit the right time so you can roll out into the woods, keep it up! You're doing it right!!

 

[mikemc411]

I don't think deer hunting itself is inherently expensive, but I do think that trophy deer hunting certainly can be expensive and, since an increasing amount of hunters are or are becoming self described "trophy" hunters, there is more and more expectation and desire for trophy managed hunting grounds, thus driving the cost of land access and/or making a guy with 80 or even 500 acres miserable because the surrounding neighbors are not trophy hunters.

I suppose the ultimate question would be "are the rising costs of hunting in line with inflation?"

Compared with many other user groups and outdoor pursuits, hunting is very expensive. For example, if you want to paddle a remote river in Alaska, that's a $2,000-$3000 trip, but if you want to paddle and HUNT moose on a remote river in AK, that's a $7,500-$15,000 trip. Fees, tags, permits, gear, and other costs certainly are not going to get any cheaper, but, there are ways to cut corners and hunt for as reasonable as possible in terms of costs.

Good point - the OP's topic was about deer hunting, but I agree that certain kinds of hunting are certainly in the realm of the "rich".

To be fair, most hunting that we do is really a "rich" person's sport when you look at world wealth statistics. Most people in the world don't have hundreds (forget thousands) of dollars a year extra to spend on licenses, gear, and fuel to drive all over the countryside.

The fact that we can even debate this topic without having an obvious and concrete answer says a lot about how blessed we are to live in this country.

Exactly -- I'm a self proclaimed NON-sports fan .. Think of all the money blown on pro-sports -- just the excess food alone served at these events would feed a third world country ...

RV's. -- people spend 1000's for a temporary / mobile 2nd home when many countries people struggle to live in a hut.

Many examples of how good we have it here in the USA


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[PillsburyDoughboy]

Re: Deer hunting, a

I don't think deer hunting itself is inherently expensive, but I do think that trophy deer hunting certainly can be expensive and, since an increasing amount of hunters are or are becoming self described "trophy" hunters, there is more and more expectation and desire for trophy managed hunting grounds, thus driving the cost of land access and/or making a guy with 80 or even 500 acres miserable because the surrounding neighbors are not trophy hunters.

I suppose the ultimate question would be "are the rising costs of hunting in line with inflation?"

Compared with many other user groups and outdoor pursuits, hunting is very expensive. For example, if you want to paddle a remote river in Alaska, that's a $2,000-$3000 trip, but if you want to paddle and HUNT moose on a remote river in AK, that's a $7,500-$15,000 trip. Fees, tags, permits, gear, and other costs certainly are not going to get any cheaper, but, there are ways to cut corners and hunt for as reasonable as possible in terms of costs.

Good point - the OP's topic was about deer hunting, but I agree that certain kinds of hunting are certainly in the realm of the "rich".

To be fair, most hunting that we do is really a "rich" person's sport when you look at world wealth statistics. Most people in the world don't have hundreds (forget thousands) of dollars a year extra to spend on licenses, gear, and fuel to drive all over the countryside.

The fact that we can even debate this topic without having an obvious and concrete answer says a lot about how blessed we are to live in this country.

Exactly -- I'm a self proclaimed NON-sports fan .. Think of all the money blown on pro-sports -- just the excess food alone served at these events would feed a third world country ...

RV's. -- people spend 1000's for a temporary / mobile 2nd home when many countries people struggle to live in a hut.

Many examples of how good we have it here in the USA


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I know right?

PSL seat LIC at Nashville Tax Payers stadium is something like 2k for each seat. That does not inlcude the season tickets that goes with that seat. Lets say thats another $500-700 a year for a single seat. Who has one seat??? No one that I know. Then there is parking passes.. Tailgating expenses... over priced beer and food at the football game. Before you know it you have spent $150 every Sunday to go watch the Titans lose not including tickets and PSL.

Someone brought up Golf. To rent a cart and play 18 holes its like $30 bucks on a public course. Do that twice a week that's $240 a month. That's not including upgrading clubs , shoes and equipment every year or couple of years.

 

[7mminatree]

Re: Deer hunting, a

Right now you can make it what you want as a budget to put into it. With the family farms slowly disappearing and if we were to loose access to public land, it surely would become a richmans sport and a poachers prize.

 

[landman]

Re: Deer hunting, a

Where I see hunting becoming more of, if not a "Rich" man's sport, certainly a "Well-off" man's sport is due to limited availability of land to hunt. Large deer herds and older bucks have driven up the demand for places to hunt and land owners have discovered they can get paid to allow hunting. It don't take long before everybody wants to get paid for any tract of land of significant size. And you can't blame a land owner for wanting to make a little money on their investment. Also so many people are now buying property for the sole purpose of hunting deer. Land that used to be nearly worthless and sold as part of a larger row crop or cattle farm is now being cut off the farmland and sold separately, often as high per acre as prime row crop land. Since land is limited in availability demand drives the price and only the wealthiest can get the land. That sets the price to a point where many many hunters have zero chance to pay for it.

Where are you at that the hunting land is bringing row crop prices?

Not that way in middle TN or KY.

I have one friend that the hardest hunting person I know, he hunts
5 tracts.
One is a little known Corp tract that he normally kills a mature buck on
One is a KY tract that he keeps the old home grass cut yearly, about 2 hours
work, and 1 hour each way to it. Last year he killed a 160" on it.
One is a TN tract that he is allowed to turkey hunt, and kill one buck that has
to mature and mounted, plus kill 2 does yearly. He bushoggs, works food plots,
puts up stands, works as hard or harder than the landowners, but has free run of the place.
One is a Ky place that he pays a small fee to the landowners, plants his on plots
and helps the landowners.
One is a tract a family member leases and he works and foodplots and buys the seed
and fertilizer and puts up stands.

This year he's killed a 130" 8 pt bow kill, 147" 10 pt Rifle killed, 151" 8 pt bow kill
along with 4-5 does so far.

He works hard, isn't rich or have a ton of cash, never owned any land,
He just works the system with landowners

 

[volunteer1]

Re: Deer hunting, a

You can analyze and break down any hobby, sport and profession that you choose. You can debate one to side or another and everyone will have a different outtake on it. I played sports my whole life in school and travel ball and there was typically always someone that had the better gear, shoes, gloves, ball etc. Did that make them a better player or actually enjoy playing the sport more than me. absolutely not! IMO spend what you can afford and pick what goals you want to achieve. Use the resources you have to achieve those goals that make you happy in what your doing, this applies not only deer hunting but life its self. I have access to several hundred acres on our family farm and for the most part that's all I need. Im happy every year with the experiences I have and the deer I kill. Do I choose to venture in to ther parts of the state or other states If I can a afford it ..yes. But That's my choice and I make the appropriate sacrifices to do so to achieve the goals or hunting experience that satisfy me. At the end of the day other hunter/people will have more than others do and that's ok. Be happy with what you got and make the best out of what you have.