Creating cover quickly - think this will work?

[JCDEERMAN]

1. Using a dozer to rake the ground could damage some of the acorn producing trees' root systems - A prescribed fire would be much more beneficial.
2. I wouldn't over-seed with anything. I'd much rather have natural grasses and growth for wildlife.
3. I would not hinge-cut - I would hack & squirt - much better for establishing and maintaining ample sunlight hitting the ground.

Check these links out below...

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/improving- ... ack-squirt

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/deer-manag ... food-plots

Spend some time on this site. A LOT of very valuable information. Good luck...

We do many of Dr. Grant Wood's techniques on our property

 

[DoubleRidge]

Absolutely agree with JCDEERMAN's recommendation ^ and you are correct...in addition to good food...they need good cover....and allowing more sunlight to reach forest floor you can get the best of both.

 

[diamond hunter]

I wouldn't overseed or bring in a dozer,I would hinge cut yes yes yes spots 1-2 acres at a time and create sanctuary cover and stay out of there.Keep what you want in there and cut it if you don't think in benefits deer.I personally cut down beech,sycamore,hickory,elm,ironwood,ect and now I keep poplar cause I raise honeybees.Build you a place a squirrel cant walk through.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Diamond hunter makes a great point:

"create sanctuary cover and stay out of there"

This is something that many land owners struggle with (staying out of a given area).

People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that there is one portion on our farm that I hadn't walked on since I was a teenager. (I'll be 50 this month).

I run cameras on the outskirts of the sanctuary...but I don't put any pressure on it what so ever. Deer need a place to go without feeling pressure.

The sanctuary on our place is made up of cedars, broom sage, old field growth, etc.

 

[FTG-05]

Diamond hunter makes a great point:

"create sanctuary cover and stay out of there"

This is something that many land owners struggle with (staying out of a given area).

People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that there is one portion on our farm that I hadn't walked on since I was a teenager. (I'll be 50 this month).

I run cameras on the outskirts of the sanctuary...but I don't put any pressure on it what so ever. Deer need a place to go without feeling pressure.

The sanctuary on our place is made up of cedars, broom sage, old field growth, etc.

Good advice, thanks! [insert beer icon here]

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Diamond hunter makes a great point:

"create sanctuary cover and stay out of there"

This is something that many land owners struggle with (staying out of a given area).

People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that there is one portion on our farm that I hadn't walked on since I was a teenager. (I'll be 50 this month).

I run cameras on the outskirts of the sanctuary...but I don't put any pressure on it what so ever. Deer need a place to go without feeling pressure.

The sanctuary on our place is made up of cedars, broom sage, old field growth, etc.

Agreed.

We have 7 sanctuaries on our property all spread out. They are all 3-15 acres a piece. We have plans this coming spring to create 5 more.

I'm hoping I get selected in January to become a certified prescribed burn manager. We will start burning all these locations on a 3-5 year rotation. Our instructions for loggers on our select cuts are "cut every tree but the white oaks and red oaks" -we have a lot of them. Essentially, you have whites and reds dropping acorns and everything else is native forbs and grasses...you have food and cover all in one

We also do not enter these areas unless to retrieve a deer.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Diamond hunter makes a great point:

"create sanctuary cover and stay out of there"

This is something that many land owners struggle with (staying out of a given area).

People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that there is one portion on our farm that I hadn't walked on since I was a teenager. (I'll be 50 this month).

I run cameras on the outskirts of the sanctuary...but I don't put any pressure on it what so ever. Deer need a place to go without feeling pressure.

The sanctuary on our place is made up of cedars, broom sage, old field growth, etc.

Agreed.

We have 7 sanctuaries on our property all spread out. They are all 3-15 acres a piece. We have plans this coming spring to create 5 more.

I'm hoping I get selected in January to become a certified prescribed burn manager. We will start burning all these locations on a 3-5 year rotation. Our instructions for loggers on our select cuts are "cut every tree but the white oaks and red oaks" -we have a lot of them. Essentially, you have whites and reds dropping acorns and everything else is native forbs and grasses...you have food and cover all in one

We also do not enter these areas unless to retrieve a deer.

Sounds like a great management plan. Really like the idea of multiple sanctuary areas verses one or two large ones. We actually have the opportunity to do this in the coming months.

I say this because we just completed a select cut where the poplar, beech, hickory and ash were cut pretty heavy with very select cut on white oak and red oak.... estimate from Forester was that we left 2/3rds of the White oaks.

In addition to this select cut we were fortunate to qualify through EQIP to hack-n-squirt the majority of the property. For the hack-n-squirt we targeted the smaller beech, ironwood, gum, etc.

So while there is going to be alot of new growth and thicker areas develop....your comments have motivated me to define two more areas as sanctuary.

Also both loading decks are having stumps removed next week followed by lime ....hope to have them ready to plant by spring.

Hadn't got up the nerve to do any controlled burns yet but we do rotate bush hogging strips in grown up field area...... several acres of honeysuckle , briars & native grasses...deer and turkey love it.

Ok I'll stop rambling.... habitat improvements for wildlife is very interesting to me and I enjoy the process....and I really like the idea of multiple sanctuary locations....it makes sense...thanks

 

[JCDEERMAN]

We have a huge project we are trying to tackle before spring as well. In addition to those 5 new select cuts, we are also clearing roughly 18-20 acres for more and larger food plots. Clear-cutting, stump removal - piling them - burn, leveling, fertilizing and liming....all before planting in the spring. A lot of work ahead!

It took me a lot of nerve to build up to burn, as well. I was pressured by a buddy that works for TWRA to burn for years and I just shrugged it off. Didn't want to do anything that dramatic and dangerous. Once I started watching videos and learning about all the benefits, I was sold. The deer and turkey will reap all the rewards, and ultimately, us hunters.

Keep us updated on your progress, DoubleRidge!

 

[DoubleRidge]

JCDEERMAN that plan sounds great....clearing 18 to 20 acres is certainly a big project... wow! ...gonna be nice though....for the area we are removing stumps from - one is around 2 acre and the other is 3 to 3½ acre....very excited about finally making some progress....trying to take pics along the way to show before and after.

But I will certainly share progress as we move along into spring......you please do the same....I really like following others progress and learning all I can along the way!

Actually these are the type conversations that motivated me to jump in and join TNdeer....lurked and learned for some time....hope to share some experiences now.

 

[DoubleRidge]

We have a huge project we are trying to tackle before spring as well. In addition to those 5 new select cuts, we are also clearing roughly 18-20 acres for more and larger food plots. Clear-cutting, stump removal - piling them - burn, leveling, fertilizing and liming....all before planting in the spring. A lot of work ahead!

It took me a lot of nerve to build up to burn, as well. I was pressured by a buddy that works for TWRA to burn for years and I just shrugged it off. Didn't want to do anything that dramatic and dangerous. Once I started watching videos and learning about all the benefits, I was sold. The deer and turkey will reap all the rewards, and ultimately, us hunters.

Keep us updated on your progress, DoubleRidge!

Update: Dozer was delivered yesterday and they started today. Working on road going into the property and started removing stumps in the first plot area....he's making great progress.

We've been waiting two weeks to get started and the rain just wouldn't let up...... talking with the dozer operator this afternoon and he said he likes pushing stumps out when the moisture is up some (not muddy) verses bone dry ground....he said it goes quicker.

Another day and plot 1 will be ready to lime/disk. Hoping by Saturday he will start on plot 2 which has allot more stumps. In-between the farm entrance , plot 1 and plot 2 he is making road improvements as he goes.

So....we have "before pics"....will try to take some "after pics" when he's done....and "finished pics" once planted....and post some pics to show examples.

Excited to finally get the ball rolling!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

We have a huge project we are trying to tackle before spring as well. In addition to those 5 new select cuts, we are also clearing roughly 18-20 acres for more and larger food plots. Clear-cutting, stump removal - piling them - burn, leveling, fertilizing and liming....all before planting in the spring. A lot of work ahead!

It took me a lot of nerve to build up to burn, as well. I was pressured by a buddy that works for TWRA to burn for years and I just shrugged it off. Didn't want to do anything that dramatic and dangerous. Once I started watching videos and learning about all the benefits, I was sold. The deer and turkey will reap all the rewards, and ultimately, us hunters.

Keep us updated on your progress, DoubleRidge!

Update: Dozer was delivered yesterday and they started today. Working on road going into the property and started removing stumps in the first plot area....he's making great progress.

We've been waiting two weeks to get started and the rain just wouldn't let up...... talking with the dozer operator this afternoon and he said he likes pushing stumps out when the moisture is up some (not muddy) verses bone dry ground....he said it goes quicker.

Another day and plot 1 will be ready to lime/disk. Hoping by Saturday he will start on plot 2 which has allot more stumps. In-between the farm entrance , plot 1 and plot 2 he is making road improvements as he goes.

So....we have "before pics"....will try to take some "after pics" when he's done....and "finished pics" once planted....and post some pics to show examples.

Excited to finally get the ball rolling!

Thanks for the update!

I am definitely jealous. Still waiting on our logger to finish up another job so he can start on ours. Then, just have to call to get the dozer delivered at our convenience so that work can start. I too plan to do before and after pics...love to see progress!!!

What size dozer are y'all working with?
How long would you say it has taken them to do say, 1 acre with the dozer?

 

[DoubleRidge]

The dozer they are using is a D6 with the rippers on the back....for him a "full day" is a 10 hours.....he said he got started late today and didn't get in a full day....so when I arrived this afternoon I'd estimate he had 1½ acre of plot area stump free plus several hundred feet of farm road improved....I know that's not a straight answer to your question.....so I'll try to get a better feel what progress he's making going forward.

His estimate was 4 days minimum 5 days maximum and that's to clear all stumps from a 2 to 2½ acre plot and a 3 to 3½ acre plot.... estimate also includes making improvements to road going into farm.

We'll see how close his estimate is....but from the progress he made today I'm guessing 4 days. (weather pending)

Also I forget to mention....the 3½ acre plot has allot of very big red oak stumps which obviously effects the time it takes. Some areas will go quickly....some will take more time.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

There is a podcast with dr.craig harper on Wired to hunt that is great!

https://ag.tennessee.edu/fwf/craigharpe ... fault.aspx

 

[DoubleRidge]

There is a podcast with dr.craig harper on Wired to hunt that is great!

https://ag.tennessee.edu/fwf/craigharpe ... fault.aspx

Looks like some great information.....thanks!

 

[BULL MOOSE]

There is a podcast with dr.craig harper on Wired to hunt that is great!

https://ag.tennessee.edu/fwf/craigharpe ... fault.aspx

Looks like some great information.....thanks!

It has been a couple of years since listening to the podcast, but a main takeaway was that you could produce more good browse and poundage with roundup/mower than you can with a food plot for less money. Of course, that was before all these roundup cancer lawsuits. :).

 

[DoubleRidge]

There is a podcast with dr.craig harper on Wired to hunt that is great!

https://ag.tennessee.edu/fwf/craigharpe ... fault.aspx

Looks like some great information.....thanks!

It has been a couple of years since listening to the podcast, but a main takeaway was that you could produce more good browse and poundage with roundup/mower than you can with a food plot for less money. Of course, that was before all these roundup cancer lawsuits. :).

No doubt bush hogging natural vegetation can be a cost effective way to make habitat improvements.... totally agree! Food plots can get in your pocket!

We have several "grown up" areas we plan to bush hog strips in this year....and rotating areas year to year.

 

[DoubleRidge]

We have a huge project we are trying to tackle before spring as well. In addition to those 5 new select cuts, we are also clearing roughly 18-20 acres for more and larger food plots. Clear-cutting, stump removal - piling them - burn, leveling, fertilizing and liming....all before planting in the spring. A lot of work ahead!

It took me a lot of nerve to build up to burn, as well. I was pressured by a buddy that works for TWRA to burn for years and I just shrugged it off. Didn't want to do anything that dramatic and dangerous. Once I started watching videos and learning about all the benefits, I was sold. The deer and turkey will reap all the rewards, and ultimately, us hunters.

Keep us updated on your progress, DoubleRidge!

Update: Dozer was delivered yesterday and they started today. Working on road going into the property and started removing stumps in the first plot area....he's making great progress.

We've been waiting two weeks to get started and the rain just wouldn't let up...... talking with the dozer operator this afternoon and he said he likes pushing stumps out when the moisture is up some (not muddy) verses bone dry ground....he said it goes quicker.

Another day and plot 1 will be ready to lime/disk. Hoping by Saturday he will start on plot 2 which has allot more stumps. In-between the farm entrance , plot 1 and plot 2 he is making road improvements as he goes.

So....we have "before pics"....will try to take some "after pics" when he's done....and "finished pics" once planted....and post some pics to show examples.

Excited to finally get the ball rolling!

Thanks for the update!

I am definitely jealous. Still waiting on our logger to finish up another job so he can start on ours. Then, just have to call to get the dozer delivered at our convenience so that work can start. I too plan to do before and after pics...love to see progress!!!

What size dozer are y'all working with?
How long would you say it has taken them to do say, 1 acre with the dozer?

Update #2 dozer wrapped up last Wednesday....ended up being around 5 ½ to 6 acres cleared of stumps....also Improvements were made to around 600 feet of farm road....crowned road added ditches, etc.

So total dozer run time was 33 hours....wish I knew how many hours were dedicated to only stump removal but I do not.....if I were guessing I'd say 30 hours on stump removal on 5½ to 6 acres....which included back dragging and smoothing entire area.

When I get back on the property I'll post some before and after pics.....next step is getting lime truck scheduled.... progress is never fast enough....but we're getting there.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Great to hear DR. Can't wait for the pics. Our logger hasn't started and probably won't be able to for several more weeks. All this rain is delaying him finishing up another job.

You doing soil tests?

 

[DoubleRidge]

Great to hear DR. Can't wait for the pics. Our logger hasn't started and probably won't be able to for several more weeks. All this rain is delaying him finishing up another job.

You doing soil tests?

Yea....the rain has caused numerous delays for us as well....hoping this week is dry enough to get lime truck scheduled.....was hoping to start disking soon but going to wait till lime is spread.

This week looks little better with less rain.... hopefully that helps your logger get caught up!

 

[DoubleRidge]

Great to hear DR. Can't wait for the pics. Our logger hasn't started and probably won't be able to for several more weeks. All this rain is delaying him finishing up another job.

You doing soil tests?

Yea....the rain has caused numerous delays for us as well....hoping this week is dry enough to get lime truck scheduled.....was hoping to start disking soon but going to wait till lime is spread.

This week looks little better with less rain.... hopefully that helps your logger get caught up!

Just noticed I didn't answer your question on soil test....Yes! Going to pull soil test....I'm getting the cart before the horse....pulling soil test on the new plot areas where stumps were removed..... already have soil test results for existing plot areas..... hoping to lime all plot areas soon.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Between work and weather I hadn't pulled soil samples yet but did stop by local co-op this afternoon and picked up the sample bags....price went up a little at $9.50 per sample....but in the long run it beats over spending on lime/fertilizer...or not applying enough.

I am curious to see the lime requirements in the two new plot areas that we're previously timbered areas.

Hope to pull soil samples from the two new plot areas and three established plot areas Thursday if the weather will cooperate.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Good deal. Not on the price of soil sample, but your progress.

Your soil in the recently timbered areas will probably be quite acidic. We've usually done 2 tons an acre. I've been told you can't have too much lime

 

[DoubleRidge]

Good deal. Not on the price of soil sample, but your progress.

Your soil in the recently timbered areas will probably be quite acidic. We've usually done 2 tons an acre. I've been told you can't have too much lime

Yea... based off everything I've read I'm guessing your correct....the timbered areas will likely be very acidic.... but I am curious to see what the report calls for.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Finally was able to get too both new plot areas to pull soil samples. I had mentioned in previous post that I already had soil test results for existing plots but I pulled those reports and they were four years old so I went ahead and pulled samples from the existing plots as well. So tommorow morning I'll be dropping them all off at local co-op .....now when will it be dry enough to get a lime truck or fertilizer buggy in there....who knows?

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Also, when liming, we have always done Ag lime and used 2 tons per acre - it costs us about $28 a ton. We are thinking about doing pelletized lime this year and everything I am reading, you are supposed to use atleast 50% less lime when using pelletized. The Co-Op is telling me that the pelletized lime starts working much sooner than Ag lime. Doesn't make sense to me since Ag lime is more of a powder, but that's what I keep hearing. Pelletized lime is $.08 / lb in our area

 

[DoubleRidge]

I've always heard the same in that pelletized lime works faster....but the cost factor has always made me shy away....but if it's true you can use 50% less then maybe cost wouldn't be as big a factor.... pelletized is still high though....no doubt I have some studying to do....coop said soil samples should ship this week so hopefully I'll have some numbers to calculate cost with....and maybe pelletized lime will be the way to go.... working faster would be nice!

 

[DoubleRidge]

Well.....I got the soil test results back and I'm a little surprised honestly......one of the new plots calls for 0 (zero) lime with the other new plot calling for 1500 lbs per acre.

On the three existing plots they called for an average of 2000 lbs per acre with some small differences between the three plot areas.

Not complaining...going to be spending a little less on lime....I was just expecting it to take more?

Glad to have the results back....but have no idea when we'll be able to get a fertilizer buggy or a lime truck in there? Really could use a break on all the rain.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

That's great - I would be thrilled with using less. Very surprising a new plot recommended zero lime.

Funny how the rain is the devil now, but will be praying for it and washing all of our trucks hoping for it in August/September

 

[DoubleRidge]

Well.....I got the soil test results back and I'm a little surprised honestly......one of the new plots calls for 0 (zero) lime with the other new plot calling for 1500 lbs per acre.

On the three existing plots they called for an average of 2000 lbs per acre with some small differences between the three plot areas.

Not complaining...going to be spending a little less on lime....I was just expecting it to take more?

Glad to have the results back....but have no idea when we'll be able to get a fertilizer buggy or a lime truck in there? Really could use a break on all the rain.

Update: still no progress on lime and fertilizer. Got side tracked with project when someone decided to pulled out in front of me on way to work back in February....I was running 55 mph in F250 and guy pulls out in Kia.... thankful to the Lord we both walked away... totalled both vehicles.... anyway.... dealing with insurance companies, truck shopping, etc. has prevented me from making progress on food plots.....I was able to get the entrance set up with gravel and gates following the logging operation....now if the weather will cooperate we hope to lime and fertilize.

 

[Farm manager]

Pelletized lime goes into solution easier, which allows it to do its job faster but it's effects do not last as long. Some county CO-OP's now have it in bulk where you can get a buggy and have your fertilizer mixed with it.