Concerns on CWD spread

[Buzzard Breath]

Am I way overthinking this?

Educate yourself about CWD and do what you feel comfortable with.

Me, I feel that I have the same chance of getting AIDS from using a public toilet as I have from getting CWD from eating deer meat. I take reasonable precautions and stay withing the law, but I'll continue to kill and eat just as many as I have in the past.

I do process most of my own deer, but this is because I want "special" cuts of meat for various recipes that I don't trust a processor to do for me. I don't eat or mess with spinal or brain tissue. I've got even less to do with lymph nodes. I've been eating meat from CWD areas out west for decades.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[fairchaser]

Educate yourself, follow the rules, test your deer if possible, and just enjoy the hunt.

 

[fairchaser]

I am educating myself.

Yes, you are. I didn't mean you weren't. You just joined the forum and we've been discussing this subject ad Infinitim for a year now. No slight intended. Best of luck this season.

 

[FourWFarm]

Saw this in the local Fayette County paper last night; how many other ways can this stuff be spread that no one is really thinking about, or knows about?

 

[fairchaser]

Saw this in the local Fayette County paper last night; how many other ways can this stuff be spread that no one is really thinking about, or knows about?

An infinite number of ways actually. There's one theory that CWD has been spread through hay. A dead infected deer dies and eventually it gets into the food chain and plant life. The hay is harvested and sold to unsuspecting ranchers across the country. Deer eat the hay and the cycle continues.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Saw this in the local Fayette County paper last night; how many other ways can this stuff be spread that no one is really thinking about, or knows about?

So how are Fayette hunters supposed to dispose of their deer? Let it rot in the field, dig a deep hole in their yard, dump over a bridge or just ignore the rule and put it in garbage bags?

Can the county not dig a hole for deer/animal disposal at the landfill?

Crazy

 

[AT Hiker]

Way back in the day when I had my first real big boy job I had to train adult volunteers for youth camps. No matter how hard I tried I could never avoid the "what if" scenarios. I actually laughed at them...now that I see how the state(s) are handling CWD I can totally see the irony/hypocrisy/ and whatever, no matter what we do it's impossible to stop it...I'm not even sure it's possible to slow it.

I say we need to focus the research on food safety, easing the public's view on consumption would likely do more good than most anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[poorhunter]

Way back in the day when I had my first real big boy job I had to train adult volunteers for youth camps. No matter how hard I tried I could never avoid the "what if" scenarios. I actually laughed at them...now that I see how the state(s) are handling CWD I can totally see the irony/hypocrisy/ and whatever, no matter what we do it's impossible to stop it...I'm not even sure it's possible to slow it.

I say we need to focus the research on food safety, easing the public's view on consumption would likely do more good than most anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I totally agree. My questions deal with how are hunters dealing with CWD in other states? From what I've read (which isn't a lot) that CWD hasn't effected hunter participation or harvest numbers. Wisconsin has a statewide increase in deer harvest last year, yet only 8% of deer harvested in the southern portion of the state were tested. Overall population in Wisconsin has declined only slightly since 2002, so it hasn't decimated the herd...yet. It takes quite a while for a deer to die from CWD, but if the prevalence rate continues to increase that would very quickly change I'd think.

 

[fairchaser]

So far, we've had two non-detected out of two does tested at Ames. I'm still hopeful our overall rate is no worse than the county. This season will tell the story.

 

[fairchaser]

Way back in the day when I had my first real big boy job I had to train adult volunteers for youth camps. No matter how hard I tried I could never avoid the "what if" scenarios. I actually laughed at them...now that I see how the state(s) are handling CWD I can totally see the irony/hypocrisy/ and whatever, no matter what we do it's impossible to stop it...I'm not even sure it's possible to slow it.

I say we need to focus the research on food safety, easing the public's view on consumption would likely do more good than most anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I listened to today's episode of the MeatEater podcast on the way to work this morning. Rinella was talking with an epidemiologist, expert on food borne illnesses. The whole episode focused on stuff like trichinosis, tularemia, giardia, rabies, etc. It was clear that Rinella wanted to return to CWD for another time, but they spent a couple of minutes on mad cow and CJD. Most of these parasites, bacteria, viruses are proteins, which is why cooking kills the buggers. Except for mad cow, CJD, and I presume CWD. The epidemiologist talked about a person somewhere in Europe infected with CJD. The hospital had to perform a type of test that involved inserting a probe into the person's brain. After three hospital sterilization attempts, the probe was still infectious with CJD. They all half-jokingly commented about hunters, fish and wildlife agency officials, and others talking about CWD isn't a concern as long as you cook the meat. Nope, I don't think so.

Exactly! The problem with prions is they aren't alive like a virus or bacteria. Therefore, you can't kill them only make them disintegrate with intense heat or inert with a lot of bleach. You can't wash it off or cook it out. Anything it touches could forever be contaminated. I suggest rubber gloves and disposable blades like a scalpel anytime you are gutting or processing a deer.

 

[MAGA]

Way back in the day when I had my first real big boy job I had to train adult volunteers for youth camps. No matter how hard I tried I could never avoid the "what if" scenarios. I actually laughed at them...now that I see how the state(s) are handling CWD I can totally see the irony/hypocrisy/ and whatever, no matter what we do it's impossible to stop it...I'm not even sure it's possible to slow it.

I say we need to focus the research on food safety, easing the public's view on consumption would likely do more good than most anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I listened to today's episode of the MeatEater podcast on the way to work this morning. Rinella was talking with an epidemiologist, expert on food borne illnesses. The whole episode focused on stuff like trichinosis, tularemia, giardia, rabies, etc. It was clear that Rinella wanted to return to CWD for another time, but they spent a couple of minutes on mad cow and CJD. Most of these parasites, bacteria, viruses are proteins, which is why cooking kills the buggers. Except for mad cow, CJD, and I presume CWD. The epidemiologist talked about a person somewhere in Europe infected with CJD. The hospital had to perform a type of test that involved inserting a probe into the person's brain. After three hospital sterilization attempts, the probe was still infectious with CJD. They all half-jokingly commented about hunters, fish and wildlife agency officials, and others talking about CWD isn't a concern as long as you cook the meat. Nope, I don't think so.

Exactly! The problem with prions is they aren't alive like a virus or bacteria. Therefore, you can't kill them only make them disintegrate with intense heat or inert with a lot of bleach. You can't wash it off or cook it out. Anything it touches could forever be contaminated. I suggest rubber gloves and disposable blades like a scalpel anytime you are gutting or processing a deer.

This why if you're a bow hunter, you should always dispose of the arrow and broadhead used to take a deer.

 

[fairchaser]

This why if you're a bow hunter, you should always dispose of the arrow and broadhead used to take a deer.

I've not thought of doing that but why? Yes, the arrow and broad head could contaminate the meat around the wound channel but you generally aren't eating that. Prions aren't spreading through the deer for the period the deer would live after a shot. If the deer otherwise comes back negative, it wouldn't make any difference. If you are concerned about handling the arrow you could always wipe it down with bleach.

 

[MAGA]

This why if you're a bow hunter, you should always dispose of the arrow and broadhead used to take a deer.

I've not thought of doing that but why? Yes, the arrow and broad head could contaminate the meat around the wound channel but you generally aren't eating that. Prions aren't spreading through the deer for the period the deer would live after a shot. If the deer otherwise comes back negative, it wouldn't make any difference. If you are concerned about handling the arrow you could always wipe it down with bleach.

It's not about meat contamination, but about the spread of the disease. Shoot a deer infected with CWD in Michigan with a bow and drive back to TN? Most archer will simply wash the arrow and broadhead off. Then they'll go to some other state on a hunting.... using the same arrow and broadhead.
People talk about transporting deer dead deer across state lines as a main cause for the spread of CWD, but how many people bring their dead deer into the woods? You know what they do bring to the woods? The arrows and broadheads they used to harvest infected deer.

 

[fairchaser]

This why if you're a bow hunter, you should always dispose of the arrow and broadhead used to take a deer.

I've not thought of doing that but why? Yes, the arrow and broad head could contaminate the meat around the wound channel but you generally aren't eating that. Prions aren't spreading through the deer for the period the deer would live after a shot. If the deer otherwise comes back negative, it wouldn't make any difference. If you are concerned about handling the arrow you could always wipe it down with bleach.

It's not about meat contamination, but about the spread of the disease. Shoot a deer infected with CWD in Michigan with a bow and drive back to TN? Most archer will simply wash the arrow and broadhead off. Then they'll go to some other state on a hunting.... using the same arrow and broadhead.
People talk about transporting deer dead deer across state lines as a main cause for the spread of CWD, but how many people bring their dead deer into the woods? You know what they do bring to the woods? The arrows and broadheads they used to harvest infected deer.

I can't argue with that MAGA, except I think it would be low odds to spread disease with an infected arrow. What about clothes and boots that have stepped in blood from an infected deer? Are we gonna toss them too? This gets crazy when you think about creating a sterile environment. We are hunters and not surgeons.

 

[scn]

We can drive ourselves crazy. I'm certainly no infectious disease expert, but when I see my niece over Christmas I'll ask if this is how pandemics spread (she works for Doctors Without Borders and has spent time in the Congo).

Ultimately, and no one is going to like this, but state fish and game agencies are going to have go to unit tags. No no resident tags to hunt in a CWD designated unit, but also no in-staters. So, I live in Williamson. My TN tag allows me to hunt only outside the CWD zone.

I'd be EXTREMELY surprised to see any state go in this direction. Many of the western states that have CWD depend too much on the NR $$$$ to balance budgets. In TN, it would require a total change in the check in system by going back to only physical check in stations. That won't happen.

Until there is some documented valid medical research showing a link to CWD and a HUMAN disease, it will continue to be treated the best way it can be with current budgets for state game and fish agencies. The fact that it has been pretty endemic in many western states for decades and the sky hasn't fallen in leads me to believe that the fears of it are worse than reality.

With that being said, yes, it is a royal PIA having to deal with transportation and testing issues. I've had to do it for a number of years in another state, and it does make it harder and me less likely to shoot something that I really don't care about putting in the freezer.

 

[MAGA]

I can't argue with that MAGA, except I think it would be low odds to spread disease with an infected arrow. What about clothes and boots that have stepped in blood from an infected deer? Are we gonna toss them too? This gets crazy when you think about creating a sterile environment. We are hunters and not surgeons.

People either need to get serious about mitigating the spread of the disease or forget about it.

 

[MAGA]

We can drive ourselves crazy. I'm certainly no infectious disease expert, but when I see my niece over Christmas I'll ask if this is how pandemics spread (she works for Doctors Without Borders and has spent time in the Congo).

Ultimately, and no one is going to like this, but state fish and game agencies are going to have go to unit tags. No no resident tags to hunt in a CWD designated unit, but also no in-staters. So, I live in Williamson. My TN tag allows me to hunt only outside the CWD zone.

Problem with this proposal is that the Residents will hunt those CWD designated units and then go hunt out of state, say in like Kentucky or Mississippi or wherever.

 

[fairchaser]

I killed a doe this morning with my crossbow and made an effort to remain uncontaminated. I failed miserably. I tracked the deer about a 100 yds and stepped in the blood I'm sure. A few times, I touched some grass to see if what I was seeing was blood. It took awhile but finally found her and grabbed a leg to drag her out to an open area. Finally, I used some rubber gloves to handle the deer but then afterward I got blood on my hand trying to removed the gloves. I then touched my phone, my door handle and my steering wheel. After arriving at the check station, there were several more times I touched the deer without gloves when I removed the jawbone, the head, etc. At some point it just became impossible to never touch anything or have anything not touch the deer that I might touch later. The outdoors is not a laboratory and we aren't doctors. Dismantling a deer is a bloody business. Apparently anything now that touched the deer is contaminated forever. I guess I need to burn my truck. Ugh!

 

[scn]

" I do know that I don't want to be patient zero for the documented transmission to humans or for any member of my family to be that patient. To ensure that doesn't happen, if I kill a deer this year in western Hickman County, I'll transport that deer across a part of Perry, Humphreys, Hickman, Dickson, Davidson, Nashville, and into Wilson for the closest test location for me. If that deer happens to be CWD positive, I've potentially brought the disease to five additional counties. Each county should have a test location to prevent that."

Having a testing location in each county would do NOTHING to address the issue you are describing. There is not an instantaneous test for CWD. The testing involves removing lymph nodes from the neck and sending them to a lab for testing. At best, there is a 2-3 week turn around time. Your deer won't wait that long for processing.

To address your concerns, there would need to be a testing location in Hickman Co and you would need to have it processed there as well. Once processed, the transportation issues become less getting it back to your home. Once there, if it comes back positive, you are faced with what you are going to do with the deer if you decide you don't want to eat it.

I've killed and eaten deer from a CWD positive state for many years without a second thought. It hasn't been documented in the area where I hunt. Until it is, I'm not going to worry about it. The same goes for here in TN. Until it is documented in the county where I hunt, it is not going to affect whether I kill and eat a deer.

Personally, I'd rather see my license $$$$ go to other things than setting up testing facilities in all counties of the state.

 

[fairchaser]

There's no way to stop the spread of CWD. You may slow it some. Deer seem to be prolific enough to survive with CWD. There will not be a widespread cure but there could be a resistant strain of deer or a resistant strain developed that could be introduced into the herd. Anything is possible but jumping to humans is not a foregone conclusion. The prion is not evolving like a virus or bacteria. It is what it is and that's that. I believe science will eventually figure something out. No one thought science could ever manage Alzheimer's but Biogen has a drug in phase three that looks promising. If it ever jumps to humans, that will be my last time to deer hunt. People will be escaping to the cities instead of the other way. Every deer will be a Typhoid Mary.

 

[fairchaser]

If you have 2 hours that you want to spend listening to a scientist discuss CWD, including mad cow, CJD, and other backstory, "taking the gloves off", the spread, etc., check out this MeatEater podcast. Yeah, it's long, but this format allows the expert to get into depth on the issue. If you want to skip the intro stuff and save 20 minutes, fast forward to minute 20. At 1 hour, 18 minutes it's get's into human transmission. His conclusion, "remote, but not zero chance" and follow the recommendations of the World Health Organization and the CDC. But probably the best advice from Rinella and Bryan Richards the CWD expert is don't Google "the truth about CWD." It's best to search on Google.Scholar for peer reviewed articles.

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/gener ... ng-disease

In addition to not using doe urine and other scents, I think it's best to stop using mineral licks, Trophy Rocks, and stuff. If you listen to the podcast, you'll understand.

Thanks Ohsmitty, I love the meateater podcasts. The one where they interview an epidemiologist was also good. They didn't discuss CWD but many other diseases from the outdoors.

 

[fairchaser]

If you have 2 hours that you want to spend listening to a scientist discuss CWD, including mad cow, CJD, and other backstory, "taking the gloves off", the spread, etc., check out this MeatEater podcast. Yeah, it's long, but this format allows the expert to get into depth on the issue. If you want to skip the intro stuff and save 20 minutes, fast forward to minute 20. At 1 hour, 18 minutes it's get's into human transmission. His conclusion, "remote, but not zero chance" and follow the recommendations of the World Health Organization and the CDC. But probably the best advice from Rinella and Bryan Richards the CWD expert is don't Google "the truth about CWD." It's best to search on Google.Scholar for peer reviewed articles.

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/gener ... ng-disease

In addition to not using doe urine and other scents, I think it's best to stop using mineral licks, Trophy Rocks, and stuff. If you listen to the podcast, you'll understand.

Thanks Ohsmitty, I love the meateater podcasts. The one where they interview an epidemiologist was also good. They didn't discuss CWD but many other diseases from the outdoors.

Who in their right mind would ever eat raw bear meat?! And, don't put paper money in your mouth. After listening to the other podcast, I haven't been able to take a dollar bill out of my wallet.

I saw that episode and it wasn't raw it just wasn't cooked sufficiently. They roasted some pieces on a stick over a fire and just didn't have any method to measure the temperature. I learned from that expert that 160 is what's needed. It's also at the point where it can be easily over cooked. Wild game has more flavor when slightly undercooked but that can also be dangerous. They all contracted trichinosis.

 

[fairchaser]

One thing I learned from listening to the Meateater podcast on CWD was that 100's of thousands if not millions were exposed to mad cow diseased beef and only 200 got sick and died. This was likely due to some sort of genetic inclination to contract the disease. Thus, if someone has the right genetic makeup and consume CWD, they could get infected. The odds are extremely low but not zero. It's not a matter of the prions changing to jump to humans but finding the right host susceptible to the disease. I'm sure someone has done the math to see what the odds are. I really don't want to know!

 

[fairchaser]

Oh I know. I remember that MeatEater episode. In the podcast, however, the epidemiologist talked about the 39 people in CA that got trichinosis eating bear meat at a banquet and some of it was raw. I guess bear tartare. No thanks.

One guy ate 28 ounces of raw bear meat. I'd love to meet that guy.

 

[Bone Collector]

Am I way overthinking this?

Me, I feel that I have the same chance of getting AIDS from using a public toilet as I have from getting CWD from eating deer meat.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

CWD quote of the year. :tu:

 

[fairchaser]

Even thou it's extremely remote that CWD could jump to humans, all believe it's not zero. It only takes one to put the deer hunting world on it's ear. Let's all pray that never happens. What would it do to you as a deer hunter? Right now it's an unproven theory but one case proven and tied back to CWD would change everything. Fear of the unknown is powerful. We have to use automobiles but we don't have to hunt. There are other ways to die that have much greater odds. But there are things we think we can control and others not. Those things we can't scare us and we avoid them. I hope it's never CWD.

 

[BigAl]

've been doing a little reading on CWD in Norway (planning to visit there). They're not even sure how it got there. Some suspect that a visitor had it on their boots. But most likely it occurred naturally (?). They tried a total elimination of the herd (about 2000 animals) in the area as a solution. Only 1 percent of the killed animals had CWD. They plan to keep the area animal free for 5 years. Only time will tell if their efforts are successful.
If it can get to the mountains of Norway, it can get anywhere.

 

[102]

Am I way overthinking this?

Educate yourself about CWD and do what you feel comfortable with.

Me, I feel that I have the same chance of getting AIDS from using a public toilet as I have from getting CWD from eating deer meat. I take reasonable precautions and stay withing the law, but I'll continue to kill and eat just as many as I have in the past.

I do process most of my own deer, but this is because I want "special" cuts of meat for various recipes that I don't trust a processor to do for me. I don't eat or mess with spinal or brain tissue. I've got even less to do with lymph nodes. I've been eating meat from CWD areas out west for decades.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

That my friends...is all you need to know.