Beware When Purchasing a CVA Accura V2 Nitride

[Yotekiller011]

Ok, I bought a new rifle. CVA Accura V2 LR Nitride but what they dont tell you when you buy the rifle is you have to purchase a additional breech plug when using Blackhorn 209 (BH209). I think this is bull*!&%$!. They should provide the breech plug with the rifle or give instructions when you buy it with this option.

I would never shoot anything but BH209 and would have never bought the gun without the option. So now I have to spend an additional $22.00 for a breech plug in order to use BH209. RIDICULOUS!

Just be aware. When you buy one you gotta spend more money on a breech plug. When CVA opens Monday I'm gonna call and tell them what I think about the whole thing. They talk about how of the rifle is "just a better gun" its not starting off too good with me. :bash:

 

[ImThere]

I don't think you "have" to purchase the bh209 plug they just "recommend " it


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[Yotekiller011]

According to the book you need to have the plug made for loose powder.

 

[bloodtrailing]

They don't sell the gun as a Blackhorn only rifle. I think you are making something out of nothing. If you had done any research you would know the recommendation for Blackhorn powder. It is not the gunmakers fault Blackhorn requires more fire. Be glad they make a plug for it.

 

[Yotekiller011]

No, they dont but they also dont tell you that without purchasing the right breech plug you cant use loose powder. They push white hots which I used once and would never use again. Loose powder regardless if its BH209 or something else is just much better. If they said without buying a additional plug you can only use pellets and inform the buyer. Should have just stuck with my Encore. If anyone has a nice Encore muzzleloader I'm in the market.

 

[GMB54]

Come on, this is nothing new even the LHR/TC Strike had/has 2 plugs. The OEM plug will fire other subs besides BH209 just fine. The old non QRBP from CVA was similar and it was just fine with any sub besides BH209.

There is nothing in the online manuals that says you must buy another plug for loose powder. I checked the Wolf, Optima V2 and Accura V2 manuals. You only need it for BH209.

That rifle can be found for $500 with a scope mount which TC does not include with a Encore. Your complaint is petty at best and you simply did not research your purchase well enough beforehand. This issue has been discussed at length on nearly every ML forum around. Its even listed on the Western powders website.

 

[Yotekiller011]

Regardless I got to buy a plug. I still think it should be advertised as such. Hope the gun performs well and from what I've read it does shoot good. But i'm not getting off to a good start with CVA.

Everyone has a opinion thats why we get on here right?, Trying to get others thoughts is the reason I post. I have done research but obviously not the same place as some with great wisdom on the subject who only have the intellect to name call. No reason what so ever to degrade a persons due to his opinion.

That's all I have to say about the matter.

 

[GMB54]

Where did i name call?

All the info i posted is readily available online to anyone right on their website and Westerns website. Your statement that a new plug is needed for any loose powder is simply wrong.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

It's a value priced Muzzle loader that is easily $100 under its Competition. $22 is not going to break u when your paying $40 for a cam of powder .


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[PillsburyDoughboy]

Regardless I got to buy a plug. I still think it should be advertised as such. Hope the gun performs well and from what I've read it does shoot good. But i'm not getting off to a good start with CVA.

Everyone has a opinion thats why we get on here right?, Trying to get others thoughts is the reason I post. I have done research but obviously not the same place as some with great wisdom on the subject who only have the intellect to name call. No reason what so ever to degrade a persons due to his opinion.

That's all I have to say about the matter.

That MZ will preform wonderfully for you with BH209 or any other powder you CHOOSE to shoot out of it .


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[ImThere]

Strange, a guy I work with was shooting his with bh209 with out it. He bought the other breech plug later. He went to shoot it with the new breech plug and he said he couldn't tell the difference.


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[GMB54]

The BH209 plug was made to mimic the TC Omega plug which is great with BH209. The BH209 plug also has a little larger flash channel than the OEM CVA plug. You can actually make a better plug than either one by adding a slightly recessed vent liner to the OEM plug and use a 5/32 flash channel.

Getting a pack of the firing pin bushing shims is also a good idea. Tightening up the head space can help a lot.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Strange, a guy I work with was shooting his with bh209 with out it. He bought the other breech plug later. He went to shoot it with the new breech plug and he said he couldn't tell the difference.


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At 20' up

So much blowback with BH209 it will eventually crud up the hole . You can keep it clean out but it's hit or miss how long it will work .




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[451LRML]

.... It is not the gunmakers fault Blackhorn requires more fire. ....

This is something I've never understood.

Yokekiller011:
It also requires a HOT primer to ignite, standard ML primers are not recommended.

 

[Hunt 365]

They should give you the option of the plug when ordering

 

[ImThere]

They should give you the option of the plug when ordering

They do $22


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[Yotekiller011]

No they don't. They never advertise on the sight when you order. That's my complaint. When you purchase a item if accessories are required then they should tell you. I ordered the plug. 33.00 with shipping and tax plus 3.00 that they inform you when you order the plug you gotta have a special tool to seat the plug the first time you install. Ridiculous!

 

[GMB54]

Did you complain to TC when they didn't include a scope mount for your Encore? Its obviously needed if you plan to use a scope right? Did you need them to tell you its needs a scope mount to be able to mount a scope?

And again, needing the tool one time is a well known issue. All you had to do was ask. You could have also found a better price just by asking. Instead you would rather complain over a rather trivial issue.

 

[GMB54]

It's a value priced Muzzle loader that is easily $100 under its Competition. $22 is not going to break u when your paying $40 for a cam of powder .


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Actually he could have bought a Traditions (for a similar price) which are fine with BH209 if you can tolerate not having stainless steel. I don't like them at all personally but hey, you don't need to buy another $22 plug right? :D

The REALLY sad part is all this could have been avoided by 1 call to Carlos at Ed's Gunshop in Vass NC. He knows CVAs inside and out. He also has great pricing. The OP would have been setup with everything he needed right off the bat.

 

[Jcalder]

I've bought 2 CVAs in the last couple years and bought 2 plugs. The tool to seat the plug came with the plug both times. If it bothers you you that much to buy a different plug to shoot bh209 counterbore your existing plug. There's videos available. If I bought another CVA I would probably get the plug western powder sells.


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[PillsburyDoughboy]

It's a value priced Muzzle loader that is easily $100 under its Competition. $22 is not going to break u when your paying $40 for a cam of powder .


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Actually he could have bought a Traditions (for a similar price) which are fine with BH209 if you can tolerate not having stainless steel. I don't like them at all personally but hey, you don't need to buy another $22 plug right? :D

The REALLY sad part is all this could have been avoided by 1 call to Carlos at Ed's Gunshop in Vass NC. He knows CVAs inside and out. He also has great pricing. The OP would have been setup with everything he needed right off the bat.

Agree with you on the part of Carlos.

As to the Traditions part. I don' t think they are even in the same league as CVA. They may be fine for the guy that uses it for a the one week Muzzleloader hunt a year. But I would not depend on it for a main Axe season after season.

 

[GMB54]

I was making an effort to be kind to Traditions as in not bashing a brand. You wont find one in my inventory. I either buy older Knights or custom builds. I have as much as $80 in a custom plug for one of my Knights and spent more than that on a bunch of Lehigh plugs.

Im not really much of a CVA fan either but one of those Scout V2 45/70s just might find its way home with me someday. Im just not into alloy frame break actions and im not overly impressed with anything TC has made for years.

 

[ImThere]

I love my traditions and you couldn't give me two CVA's for it but that just me.


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[Yotekiller011]

Ref: GMB54

My TC had a sight on it and it was expected if you wanna you have to buy a set of rings and a base. When I bought my TC it came with a breech plug that shot any powder. Nothing on CVA site when you go to purchase the accuracy v2 warns "if you shoot bh209 you gotta buy a different plug" I actually ordered it from muzzleloader.com and got a good deal and bought the plug from them with free shipping due to the over sight of not advertising it as such or at least letting me know the extra plug was needed. Why you feel I should or anyone should have known it is ridiculous when it not advertised as such. To equate it with a set of scope rings is stupid. I've bought literally 100's of guns and assumed a new gun has what it needs to fire. BH209 is probably the most popular powder on the market when it was American pioneer before the plant explosion it was the bet on the market and used by the U.S military. If it came in a pellet form even more would use it so for a company not to make a consumer aware that additional plug was required is just Bull! It's dirty business and just another means of raising cost. Gimmick, whatever you want to call it. SCOPE RINGS really. Moronic!

 

[UpperTully]

Sounds like you simply didn't research the gun well enough nor read any of the old threads on here pertaining to BH209 in the new CVA's. There was quite a lengthy one I created just last year when I got my Optima V2 that gave me a wealth of knowledge on this subject.

I wouldn't blame CVA for your lack of proper research.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

I was making an effort to be kind to Traditions as in not bashing a brand. You wont find one in my inventory. I either buy older Knights or custom builds. I have as much as $80 in a custom plug for one of my Knights and spent more than that on a bunch of Lehigh plugs.

Im not really much of a CVA fan either but one of those Scout V2 45/70s just might find its way home with me someday. Im just not into alloy frame break actions and im not overly impressed with anything TC has made for years.

I think they are extremely accurate and not very load finicky . It comes with one of the best scope mounts in the market .

For the great majority of muzzleloader hunters that solely hunt with it during the muzzleloader season it's a dandy muzzleloader and a man could do a lot worse .


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[GMB54]

BH209 is probably the most popular powder on the market when it was American pioneer before the plant explosion it was the bet on the market and used by the U.S military.

Not sure where you got this info but BH209 was never even remotely similar to American Pioneer. Its made for Western by a division of General Dynamics in Valleyfield Quebec Canada. It is not and never has been made by APP or any part of APP.

APP powder is terrible by comparison and not even remotely similar in chemical composition. BlackMag, BlackMZ, Shockeys and APP are similar chemically speaking. Some are even produced in the same plant. BlackMZ was going to be made by MDM/BlackMag before the plant blew up. Alliant turned to APP instead when the turd hit the fan.

for a company not to make a consumer aware that additional plug was required is just Bull!

THE company that made the powder DID. The plug is listed for sale right on the Western Powders website. Its very simple, you did not research your purchase well. You had the ability to ask about scopes in the forum but not enough desire to ask about BH209 and CVAs. Blame yourself, not CVA or Western.

 

[iowavf]

Ref: GMB54

My TC had a sight on it and it was expected if you wanna you have to buy a set of rings and a base. When I bought my TC it came with a breech plug that shot any powder. Nothing on CVA site when you go to purchase the accuracy v2 warns "if you shoot bh209 you gotta buy a different plug" I actually ordered it from muzzleloader.com and got a good deal and bought the plug from them with free shipping due to the over sight of not advertising it as such or at least letting me know the extra plug was needed. Why you feel I should or anyone should have known it is ridiculous when it not advertised as such. To equate it with a set of scope rings is stupid. I've bought literally 100's of guns and assumed a new gun has what it needs to fire. BH209 is probably the most popular powder on the market when it was American pioneer before the plant explosion it was the bet on the market and used by the U.S military. If it came in a pellet form even more would use it so for a company not to make a consumer aware that additional plug was required is just Bull! It's dirty business and just another means of raising cost. Gimmick, whatever you want to call it. SCOPE RINGS really. Moronic!

I know of certain handguns that don't like certain brands of ammo, but the manufacturer doesn't list those ammo brands. Sure they will fire a bullet but will have trouble feeding the magazine and you will have jams. You can still use Blackhorn with the stock CVA plug, but won't guarantee it will shoot every time, but then again I don't recall CVA or any other ML specifically made for Blackhorn.

 

[GMB54]

iowavf, while that is basically true there was one made for BH209 and included mostly BH209 load data. The Savage MLII was one of the test beds used for developing BH209. It worked so well and Cabelas/Bass Pro were so against selling a smokeless ML that Savage came out with the ML-BP. It was designed from the get go to support BH209. Both came to market at very close to the same time (2008-2009).

Noticed the load data section
https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/ma ... 10mlbp.pdf

Most manufacturers dont even mention any BH209 load data. Last time i looked TC was still listing only Pyrodex and maybe Triple7 in their manuals. Pretty much all of them with except maybe Knight dont mention BH209 load data at all. Even though Remington has been working with Western to come up with data for the Ultimate, it still only lists Pyrodex and Triple7 as acceptable subs.

The OEM CVA plug under ideal conditions and good head spacing will ignite BH209. When the temps drop too low, the bullet is too loose or the primer leaks like a sieve....all bets are off. Its a poof waiting to happen and it always seems to happen when the shot matters the most. Keeping the flash channel clean with the correct size drill bit is critical with these marginal plugs too.

Ive even seen the TC Speed breach plug have fits with BH209. It takes very little fouling in that long plug to cause a hang fire or fail to fire. The newer dished style Omega plug or Impact plug on the other hand is far less finicky.

 

[iowavf]

Interesting, didn't know that.