ATF and Short-Barrelled Rifles

[Bull_TN]

I'm curious what everyone thinks about the ATF coming after SBRs. I'm seeing several for sale in the classifieds. Hypothetically, if you were to own one (obviously none of us do), how would you handle the options the ATF have given us?

For those who haven't heard, the ATF has required you register or turn in (lol) any SBR. That's a rifle with a total barrel length less than 16 inches and has a brace or stock to shoulder the gun. The ATF gave us a couple months to comply. Future SBRs will require the registration and a $200 tax stamp.

 

[RUGER]

Just more government overreach and tax collection.
All about the $$$

 

[Omega]

I'm curious what everyone thinks about the ATF coming after SBRs. I'm seeing several for sale in the classifieds. Hypothetically, if you were to own one (obviously none of us do), how would you handle the options the ATF have given us?

For those who haven't heard, the ATF has required you register or turn in (lol) any SBR. That's a rifle with a total barrel length less than 16 inches and has a brace or stock to shoulder the gun. The ATF gave us a couple months to comply. Future SBRs will require the registration and a $200 tax stamp.

A couple threads were started about this: Oh, it's on - ATF goes after the stabilizing braces. and Pistol brace news? as well as a couple more. Lots of good info in those threads. Bottom line is there are options, and 120 days from publication, rumor has it as 1 Feb, to pick one.

 

[Proudpapa]

I put 16 inch uppers on mine until this thing goes thru the courts. Hopefully the get their hand slapped hard.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

I put 16 inch uppers on mine until this thing goes thru the courts. Hopefully the get their hand slapped hard.

This

 

[infoman jr.]

Your terminology is off. The ruling relates to AR pistols.

 

[dhpro]

$..& them

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

I'm curious what everyone thinks about the ATF coming after SBRs. I'm seeing several for sale in the classifieds. Hypothetically, if you were to own one (obviously none of us do), how would you handle the options the ATF have given us?

For those who haven't heard, the ATF has required you register or turn in (lol) any SBR. That's a rifle with a total barrel length less than 16 inches and has a brace or stock to shoulder the gun. The ATF gave us a couple months to comply. Future SBRs will require the registration and a $200 tax stamp.

I think you have misunderstood whats happening. You are way off. They are going after pistol braces and ruling that they are no longer pistols but now considered SBRs. With that they have given a free registration period to make them NFA complient and to avoid the 200 tax stamp. You can do this and it be considered a registered NFA item or you can not and would be considered a felon IF you have a pistol brace on a platform that doesnt meet the definition of a rifle.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

hypothetically , if i had 1 or 4 of them. Then i would think about getting the free tax stamp and go straight up folding stocks and push them to the NFA LIMITS LOL. ORRRR I would just separate the uppers and lowers and look at them.

 

[mike243]

I'm really not sure how a rifle shooting a rifle cartridge can be classified as a pistol, splitting hairs trying to get around regulations don't always work out. Barrel length and cartridge should automatically tell you what the weapon is not what you want it to identify as lol , I'd like for my 300wm to identify a xbow lol

 

[Wahoo98]

I would go with the free tax stamp option. Once I had the stamp, I would swap the brace with a proper stock.

 

[MUP]

Dear Mr. MUP,

Thank you for taking the time to contact me about the Second Amendment to our Constitution. I always appreciate hearing from Tennesseans, and I take your thoughts seriously.

Pistol stabilizing braces were originally created for use by disabled persons, including combat veterans, and have previously been recognized by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) as legitimate devices that are not subject to the taxation and registration requirements of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

On January 13, 2023, Attorney General Merrick Garland signed an ATF final rule entitled, "Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached 'Stabilizing Braces,'" which requires lawful firearm owners to choose among surrendering their firearms, destroying their pistol braces if possible to separate them from the firearm, or registering and paying new taxes on their firearms.

As your Senator, I will always defend law-abiding Americans' Second Amendment right to bear arms. I strongly oppose this rule because it constitutes a massive federal gun registration and confiscation scheme targeting citizens who are simply exercising their constitutional rights in reliance on previous ATF guidance. That's why I am sponsoring legislation to nullify this rule, along with a number of my colleagues.

The ATF should focus its resources on enforcing our laws against criminals who are using firearms to commit violent offenses, rather than harassing law-abiding gun owners who are using approved devices designed to assist disabled citizens.

Thank you again for writing. I encourage you to continue following my efforts to serve all Tennesseans and to provide feedback. Please accept my best wishes.

Sincerely,

Bill Hagerty
United States Senator




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[Bull_TN]

hypothetically , if i had 1 or 4 of them. Then i would think about getting the free tax stamp and go straight up folding stocks and push them to the NFA LIMITS LOL. ORRRR I would just separate the uppers and lowers and look at them.

All you have to do to stay legal is slide the brace off the buffer tube.

 

[Bull_TN]

I saw the NRA post about this yesterday that they have filed a lawsuit on this. This should get worked out in court in a few months.

 

[Bull_TN]

I think you have misunderstood whats happening. You are way off. They are going after pistol braces and ruling that they are no longer pistols but now considered SBRs. With that they have given a free registration period to make them NFA complient and to avoid the 200 tax stamp. You can do this and it be considered a registered NFA item or you can not and would be considered a felon IF you have a pistol brace on a platform that doesnt meet the definition of a rifle.

Have you seen this registration package? It's not just a simple form. They want your fingerprints and a lot of personal information. No misunderstanding on my part. I've done my research. This is an attempt to compile a database of gun owners to use down the road. IMO, you'd have to be a fool to fall for this scare tactic by the BATF.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Have you seen this registration package? It's not just a simple form. They want your fingerprints and a lot of personal information. No misunderstanding on my part. I've done my research. This is an attempt to compile a database of gun owners to use down the road. IMO, you'd have to be a fool to fall for this scare tactic by the BATF.

I know exactly what it is as I have several nfa items already. My point being they already have sbrs on the nfa so they aren't going after sbrs. They are going after the pistol braces that are so popular.
If you think it's some new type of registration, I'm just telling you that it isn't. It's the same old stuff that you've always had to do to register an sbr.
Although I do agree that it's a cheap way to get a registration going and it's bullcrap because the brave has been out for several years.
I'm hoping the lawsuits eventually get it stopped.
I just watched a video where a guy said that if you have a sight that requires "eye relief" that it will be considered to be used as an sbr

 

[MUP]

I'm still strongly in the "shall not be infringed" camp myself. And this falls directly under that description of being infringed upon as I see it. This BS shouldn't be allowed to pass. But I know how it will work tho, make no mistake, as this administration is throwing all the restrictions and infringements against the wall, to proverbially see what will stick, then wait to see if they can get a liberal judge to uphold it. So far even the bump stock ban hasn't held up to the court's scrutiny, and I don't see this blatant attempt to circumvent the 2ndA standing up either, after several months of litigation, and thousands of items destroyed, turned in, or even registered in compliance.

 

[Omega]

I'm really not sure how a rifle shooting a rifle cartridge can be classified as a pistol, splitting hairs trying to get around regulations don't always work out. Barrel length and cartridge should automatically tell you what the weapon is not what you want it to identify as lol , I'd like for my 300wm to identify a xbow lol

That was on the ATF, a weapon was submitted to them for classification and they deemed it was a pistol due to characteristics, i.e. no stock. Besides the very existence of the NFA, I have a major nit to pick with them when they change their rulings after millions go off their very rulings and invest in weapons.

Dear Mr. MUP,

---------------------cut----------------------------

Sincerely,

Bill Hagerty
United States Senator

Got the same from him, hope his bill is something that may have a chance of passing.

Have you seen this registration package? It's not just a simple form. They want your fingerprints and a lot of personal information. No misunderstanding on my part. I've done my research. This is an attempt to compile a database of gun owners to use down the road. IMO, you'd have to be a fool to fall for this scare tactic by the BATF.

I agree with TF below, not a "new" scheme for registration. They already have a bunch of us, if you ever went through an FFL, you can be assured you are on their list. They don't really care what you have, just that you have. They have already been caught illegally photocopying (pictures) of FFL records, and they get all the records from FFLs that close down, so there is a large database already.

I know exactly what it is as I have several nfa items already. My point being they already have sbrs on the nfa so they aren't going after sbrs. They are going after the pistol braces that are so popular.
If you think it's some new type of registration, I'm just telling you that it isn't. It's the same old stuff that you've always had to do to register an sbr.
Although I do agree that it's a cheap way to get a registration going and it's bullcrap because the brave has been out for several years.
I'm hoping the lawsuits eventually get it stopped.
I just watched a video where a guy said that if you have a sight that requires "eye relief" that it will be considered to be used as an sbr

I am filing for a few, just for S&Gs, I will probably swap out a couple to real stocks but will keep these PSA ones, though I may see if they have a real butt pad for them.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

That was on the ATF, a weapon was submitted to them for classification and they deemed it was a pistol due to characteristics, i.e. no stock. Besides the very existence of the NFA, I have a major nit to pick with them when they change their rulings after millions go off their very rulings and invest in weapons.


Got the same from him, hope his bill is something that may have a chance of passing.

I agree with TF below, not a "new" scheme for registration. They already have a bunch of us, if you ever went through an FFL, you can be assured you are on their list. They don't really care what you have, just that you have. They have already been caught illegally photocopying (pictures) of FFL records, and they get all the records from FFLs that close down, so there is a large database already.

I am filing for a few, just for S&Gs, I will probably swap out a couple to real stocks but will keep these PSA ones, though I may see if they have a real butt pad for them.

Im torn.... I dont want to give them the satisfaction of registering but Ive also been thinking i can get what i actually wanted without having to compromise and use a brace. Im hoping the lawsuits actually win but I'm not holding my breath

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Have you seen this registration package? It's not just a simple form. They want your fingerprints and a lot of personal information. No misunderstanding on my part. I've done my research. This is an attempt to compile a database of gun owners to use down the road. IMO, you'd have to be a fool to fall for this scare tactic by the BATF.

The main thing i see with it that it will do is Prevent an easy resale. That lower will always be tied to the nfa and you cant just up and sell. I mean you can , but i believe it will have to transfer on a form 4 and most would just buy their own new and sbr it

 

[Omega]

Im torn.... I dont want to give them the satisfaction of registering but Ive also been thinking i can get what i actually wanted without having to compromise and use a brace. Im hoping the lawsuits actually win but I'm not holding my breath

I am on so many "lists" good and bad, that I don't care what they have on me. The $200 is affordable to me, even if I had to do 10, but it's the principle of paying for my rights, I would rather go without than pay it. If this stands, I'll have free stamps, if it doesn't then I will have my braces. Same as the HPA, if it passes I will get silencers, if not, the deer will just have to keep hearing their friends get shot, loudly.

The main thing i see with it that it will do is Prevent an easy resale. That lower will always be tied to the nfa and you cant just up and sell. I mean you can , but i believe it will have to transfer on a form 4 and most would just buy their own new and sbr it

You can sell as a pistol lower, no brace, and the ATF doesn't even have to be notified, you can, and probably should, but by law you don't have to.

 

[Tn_Va_Hunter]

So are y'all saying a man should buy one right now ? Asking for a buddy

 

[Omega]

So are y'all saying a man should buy one right now ? Asking for a buddy

No, they published the ruling so unless you can get one without any trail, it will not be honored for a free stamp.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

I am on so many "lists" good and bad, that I don't care what they have on me. The $200 is affordable to me, even if I had to do 10, but it's the principle of paying for my rights, I would rather go without than pay it. If this stands, I'll have free stamps, if it doesn't then I will have my braces. Same as the HPA, if it passes I will get silencers, if not, the deer will just have to keep hearing their friends get shot, loudly.

You can sell as a pistol lower, no brace, and the ATF doesn't even have to be notified, you can, and probably should, but by law you don't have to.

Yeah im sayinmg if you go on and nfa that brace and lower then that lower will be tied to the nfa!
As for the HPA that has been tossed around in the sub committees for maybe over 10 years.
My mother in law works for a state senator and ive told her to push him on it a few times. I just dont think it ever makes it up the list far enough for them to address it

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

No, they published the ruling so unless you can get one without any trail, it will not be honored for a free stamp.

I would think if you had a lower sitting around you could find a brace and sbr it .... Heck you might could just sbr any lower regardless if you even own a brace. But you would need to have owned that lower before today LOL

 

[PickettSFHunter]

And it posted in the federal register today.

 

[Bucket]

What if...hypothetically...you had an 80% lower with no serial number? What do you do then?

 

[Bell3wv]

I'm really not sure how a rifle shooting a rifle cartridge can be classified as a pistol, splitting hairs trying to get around regulations don't always work out. Barrel length and cartridge should automatically tell you what the weapon is not what you want it to identify as lol , I'd like for my 300wm to identify a xbow lol

I have a .357 rifle?

 

[MUP]

What if...hypothetically...you had an 80% lower with no serial number? What do you do then?

I believe that would be considered an investment, and would hold onto it as it will increase in value in the years to come.

 

[Robtattoo]

I have a .357 rifle?

And I've got a .30 Carbine Blackhawk.