any ideas on improving antler quality?

[meemphisbluesagain]

I'm in a lease with some other guys in the southern part of Hardeman county. The lease is around 900 acres. It's mostly pines with about 300 acres of harwoods scattered around in the creek bottoms.
very little open area for food plots. everyone is good about passing up young bucks but even the 3 and 4 year old deer have thin horns and none are 10 points. It's common to see 3 year old deer that are only 6 or 7 pointers.
Is there anything that can be done to improve the horn quality?
Do mineral blocks help?
The dirt in this area is red clay looking dirt,it probably doesn't have many good minerals. Any thoughts are appreciated

 

[KANATI McD]

"trophy rock"

 

[Kbush]

Of the 600 acres of pines, I'm assuming it is pine plantation? At what stage are they? Planting in thinned rows will work to provide some plot areas. Liming will be required so I'd take soil samples as soon as possible. Clover/chicory would get a serious consideration.

Other areas to consider are old logging decks and utility ROW's.

No miracle mix out of a bag is going to put mass into their racks. It'll take age and good groceries. If you can't grow the forage you'll have to feed which opens up another discussion on feeding.

 

[meemphisbluesagain]

here is a pretty good article on mineral supplementation

http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=15

 

[fishboy1]

"growing" big bucks is highly over rated.

Let me explain.

With a good management plan in place, the limiting factor is going to be habitat/property usage.

If there is limited food or lower quality forage due to land use and or soils, there will be little you can do to put mass on antlers.

Food plots are nice, but deer will get the majority of their food from browse here in TN.

If the land owner will allow habitat manipulation, you can get some trees cut and lime/fertilize the regrowth. That will be your best bang for the buck. OR if you have huge dollars to spend, you can plant some serious agriculture, or fence and supplimental feed the snot out of them.

Since you already have a management plan in place, you may be doing the best you can with the restrictions you are working with. It may be as good as it gets.

If you are really serious about shooting a monster, I would suggest studying the tactics of trophy buck hunters and adopting some of their ideas. With 900 acres and a trigger restraint plan in place, there are going to be some older deer around.

From your post, it sounds like most of them are going to be thin racked deer on that property. You are looking for the "freak" deer inside the 3-7% of the population that makes up the Mature buck segment of your herd.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Whats aroung your lease? More pines and hardwoods, farm land if so what crops are planted.

 

[meemphisbluesagain]

"growing" big bucks is highly over rated.

Let me explain.

With a good management plan in place, the limiting factor is going to be habitat/property usage.

If there is limited food or lower quality forage due to land use and or soils, there will be little you can do to put mass on antlers.

Food plots are nice, but deer will get the majority of their food from browse here in TN.

If the land owner will allow habitat manipulation, you can get some trees cut and lime/fertilize the regrowth. That will be your best bang for the buck. OR if you have huge dollars to spend, you can plant some serious agriculture, or fence and supplimental feed the snot out of them.

Since you already have a management plan in place, you may be doing the best you can with the restrictions you are working with. It may be as good as it gets.

If you are really serious about shooting a monster, I would suggest studying the tactics of trophy buck hunters and adopting some of their ideas. With 900 acres and a trigger restraint plan in place, there are going to be some older deer around.

From your post, it sounds like most of them are going to be thin racked deer on that property. You are looking for the "freak" deer inside the 3-7% of the population that makes up the Mature buck segment of your herd.

great points. It's funny you mention freak deer. A guy on our lease killed an 8 point last year that grossed almost 140.
heavy horned, long tines, long main beams. no idea where he came from, no one had seen him before in person or on trail cams. That buck was certainly the exception.

 

[meemphisbluesagain]

Whats aroung your lease? More pines and hardwoods, farm land if so what crops are planted.

not much farmland around our area at all. a few corn fields scattered but not close to our place. most everything around our place is the same, pines with some hardwoods mixed in

 

[meemphisbluesagain]

I will say that their are certainly some mature deer that we are never seeing on the hoof or on trail cam. Alot of the pines are about 10 years old and their is literally hundreds of acres on our place that no one ever set foot on. You can't see 10 feet in it

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

I would try to plant a couple of food plots in soybeans. 3 acres each or larger.

 

[fishboy1]

I will say that their are certainly some mature deer that we are never seeing on the hoof or on trail cam. Alot of the pines are about 10 years old and their is literally hundreds of acres on our place that no one ever set foot on. You can't see 10 feet in it

BING BING! there ya have it.

Figure out a way to hunt that thick nasty stuff and you will be much more successful on the mature deer. I used to hunt pine plantations. The big bucks know how to work the thick stuff. IF you have a swamp, that is an excellent place to catch one moving during daylight.

Find a soft edge along the super thick and nasty. Better yet, find a point of climbable timber jutting out into the thickett and hunt the point.

Most guys want to hunt the open big woods because they can see a long ways. If you want older deer, tuck up tight to the thick stuff along a trail leading in/out.

 

[BSK]

As fishboy1 pointed out, doing enough to see measurable improvements in antler quality on a 900-acre property would require fairly large-scale habitat changes. Considering you don't own the property, that would be darn hard to accomplish.

 

[meemphisbluesagain]

I guess I should be happy to harvest a four year old deer regardless of his antlers. He's still a mature deer.

 

[Anonymous]

I would try to plant a couple of food plots in soybeans. 3 acres each or larger.

i agree, with lots of lime and micro nutrients, even more than recommended. that and some trophy rock is about all you can do, if you already have lots of browse.

 

[BSK]

I guess I should be happy to harvest a four year old deer regardless of his antlers. He's still a mature deer.

There's nothing wrong with doing whatever you can, but you're going to have to weigh cost versus results. Would the fairly significant cost of creating numerous food plots--including ground clearing, prep, fertilizer, lime, seed, man-hours, equipment, etc.--be worth the minimal increases in antler quality you would see (perhaps a couple of gross inches extra on average)?

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

the minimal increases in antler quality you would see (perhaps a couple of gross inches extra on average)?

I've always thought good summer time nutrition like soy beans could put on 10 to 20 inches.

 

[BSK]

the minimal increases in antler quality you would see (perhaps a couple of gross inches extra on average)?

I've always thought good summer time nutrition like soy beans could put on 10 to 20 inches.

To feed the number of deer that could exist on 900 acres would require many acres of soybeans. A few acres of food plots would be eaten to the ground as soon as the plants popped out of the ground in spring.

At 1% of a property in food plots, even 10-12 deer per square mile will eat all the soybeans in the sprout stage (I know, I've tried it).

At even moderate deer densities, you better be looking at 5% of the property in soybeans to get plants to full-season growth/food resource levels. Especially considering the amount of the 900-acres that is pine plantation just at the stage of losing all of it's natural browse production.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

the minimal increases in antler quality you would see (perhaps a couple of gross inches extra on average)?

I've always thought good summer time nutrition like soy beans could put on 10 to 20 inches.

To feed the number of deer that could exist on 900 acres would require many acres of soybeans. A few acres of food plots would be eaten to the ground as soon as the plants popped out of the ground in spring.

At 1% of a property in food plots, even 10-12 deer per square mile will eat all the soybeans in the sprout stage (I know, I've tried it).

At even moderate deer densities, you better be looking at 5% of the property in soybeans to get plants to full-season growth/food resource levels. Especially considering the amount of the 900-acres that is pine plantation just at the stage of losing all of it's natural browse production.

So if one planted 5% to 10% in Soybeans do you think you could get a 10" to 20" increase, with land that has no crops around it?

 

[Anonymous]

i would think so if you keep ph and fertility optimum.

 

[meemphisbluesagain]

me and a friend planted 10 acres of beans not for hunting but for harvesting back a few years ago. It was on the big black river in central mississippi. Deer ate them all before they got out of the ground good. I could not believe it.



What do the deer eat? What part is good for them?
The soybean plant or the actualy bean?

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

They will eat both. Plant in the summer time and bean in the winter.

 

[BSK]

So if one planted 5% to 10% in Soybeans do you think you could get a 10" to 20" increase, with land that has no crops around it?

Yes, very possible.

 

[BSK]

What do the deer eat? What part is good for them?
The soybean plant or the actualy bean?

Primarily the growing plant (leaves), but hungry deer will eat the beans in winter as well. However, I would not put the beans themselves high on the preference list as many people have found out by trying to feeding soybean beans to deer in feeders. The deer often won't eat them. Usually corn has to mixed with the beans to get deer to eat them out of a feeder.

 

[fishboy1]

BSK,
What would be a reasonable expectation for the "average" food plotter see in terms of "improvement" in antler quality.

I know you deal with a variety of property and management programs.

How about
1. Small property with a couple small food plots.
2. Medium property(100-200 ac) with 2-5% in plots of average quality
4. Large property with 5-10% high quality food plots.

 

[BSK]

fishboy1,

I think the best data available on how habitat quality affects antler development is the MS soil study (which was really measuring habitat type and quality associated with soil quality). From the very best habitat to the worst habitat the state has to offer, there was nearly a 30 inch difference for the average score of 3 1/2 year-old bucks. The difference was so profound that it made a 2 year difference in antler development, in that 5 1/2 year-old bucks in the poor habitat areas produced exactly the same size antlers as 3 1/2 year-old bucks in the best habitat areas.

Now for your questions specifically:

1) The small property with just a few food plots is doing little to improve herd health. More than anything else, those plots are just adding attractive value to the property, drawing extra deer onto the property where they can be managed/harvested.

2) The property with 2-5% food plots probably can affect the health of the local deer. However, also remember that on properties of this size, many of the bucks using the property during the hunting season DIDN'T spend their summer on the the property hence their antlers are not a product of the property's habitat quality. But for those bucks that did use the property in summer, 10 to 20 inches better is probably a good guestimate.

3) A large property with 5-10% in high-quality food plots is probably going to see all the local bucks can produce. In essence, the maximum that a local population can be improved through improving nutritional intake.

 

[Football Hunter]

I will say that their are certainly some mature deer that we are never seeing on the hoof or on trail cam. Alot of the pines are about 10 years old and their is literally hundreds of acres on our place that no one ever set foot on. You can't see 10 feet in it

Are the pines in rows ,I assume so,make a ground blind in a likely spot.Think about the wind a nd take a bush axe,or whatever and clear some shooting lanes.I have done it.Left ,right,front,good after season project.

 

[MickThompson]

Trophy Rock (or any other mineral lick for that matter) will not increase antler size. I don't care what their marketing or what the pictures on their website says. Even if salt blocks worked, TR is over 90% table salt. That doesn't leave much room for CA and P. It's all about age first, then providing a high quality (read lots of protein) forage base, whether it be through food plots or proper forest management.

 

[fishboy1]

fishboy1,

I think the best data available on how habitat quality affects antler development is the MS soil study (which was really measuring habitat type and quality associated with soil quality). From the very best habitat to the worst habitat the state has to offer, there was nearly a 30 inch difference for the average score of 3 1/2 year-old bucks. The difference was so profound that it made a 2 year difference in antler development, in that 5 1/2 year-old bucks in the poor habitat areas produced exactly the same size antlers as 3 1/2 year-old bucks in the best habitat areas.

Now for your questions specifically:

1) The small property with just a few food plots is doing little to improve herd health. More than anything else, those plots are just adding attractive value to the property, drawing extra deer onto the property where they can be managed/harvested.

2) The property with 2-5% food plots probably can affect the health of the local deer. However, also remember that on properties of this size, many of the bucks using the property during the hunting season DIDN'T spend their summer on the the property hence their antlers are not a product of the property's habitat quality. But for those bucks that did use the property in summer, 10 to 20 inches better is probably a good guestimate.

3) A large property with 5-10% in high-quality food plots is probably going to see all the local bucks can produce. In essence, the maximum that a local population can be improved through improving nutritional intake.

WOW! Thanks for the great info.

SO...(bear with me) on a small property, food plots are not really going to improve your deer, just give you a "spot" to hunt them. Hopefully lure a deer to a known area.

Seems you get the most bang for your buck if you control a large property with a good % in quality food plots. That way you may have a buck that benefitted from the extra groceries still on your property during hunting season.

 

[Quailman]

It's all about age first, then providing a high quality (read lots of protein) forage base, whether it be through food plots or proper forest management.

Good post. Agree completely!

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Does a soybean or any plant for that matter, grown in TN's poor dirt have the same nutrients as a soybean or any plant grown in the states that have good dirt?