Another "Me likey!"

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BSK

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Mar 11, 1999
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Nashville, TN
You don't see many typical 12-pointers in TN. I've zoomed in and he has split brows both sides, plus kickers off his G2s and G3s on both sides. That makes him an 18-point. I can't guarantee all of his tines will meet scoreable criteria, and he probably won't score real high, but he sure is visually impressive.
 

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Umm... if you mean upper 140s is not scoring too high, you should adjust your standards

Sure tine length is lacking, but he has beam length and mass to help make up.. PLUS all the extra main points and a few inches from kickers

He has the wow factor to me.
 
Umm... if you mean upper 140s is not scoring too high, you should adjust your standards

Sure tine length is lacking, but he has beam length and mass to help make up.. PLUS all the extra main points and a few inches from kickers

He has the wow factor to me.
Oh, he's tops on my list for sure!

He just doesn't score what some of the other true 12s I've seen in my area score. First buck below is my place, second buck is from my cousins' place just down the road. That second buck grossed 158.
 

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Oh he's gona score pretty darn well. Impressive mass for such a big frame and his G4s are long so he'll rate up there. Beautiful buck!!!
 
You don't see many typical 12-pointers in TN. I've zoomed in and he has split brows both sides, plus kickers off his G2s and G3s on both sides. That makes him an 18-point. I can't guarantee all of his tines will meet scoreable criteria, and he probably won't score real high, but he sure is visually impressive.
Looks like he is headed towards Bakerville.😁
 
I hope he keeps that spot as part of his route. I have a stand just to the right and above the video frame. Shot 2 very nice bucks from that stand over the last 3 years.
 
How old you think this buck?
Very, VERY hard to say. Honestly, he has the body characteristics of a 3 year-old. However, our local deer are displaying severe under-development due to the terrible conditions last fall/winter and drought this summer. I have a hard time believing a 3 1/2 could grow mass like what that buck has at his bases.
 
Very, VERY hard to say. Honestly, he has the body characteristics of a 3 year-old. . . . .
THAT was my initial impression.
But single video clip, pre-rut, and considering last year's drought, he certainly could be older.
I have a hard time believing a 3 1/2 could grow mass like what that buck has at his bases.
Basal mass & beam lengths are suggestive of older.
But I would personally be sick if I killed him, then found out he was only 3 1/2.

Even if this buck is 4 1/2, I suspect he will be much more impressive at 5 1/2, especially with more significant non-typical points, and even more mass.

For those claiming to be managing for older bucks & only killing bucks 4 1/2 or older, IF this buck is thought to be 3 1/2, for them, this buck should get a pass.

I'd otherwise be happy for someone else to kill this buck.

It is bucks like this that have the most potential to become a buck of a lifetime, for even a trophy buck hunter-manager, if it can survive to maturity.
 
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It is bucks like this that have the most potential to become a buck of a lifetime, for even a trophy buck hunter-manager, if it can survive to maturity.

That's a fact. A buck like that if truly is only 3.5 or 4.5 could have a legit chance of being a state record at 5.5. But he has to live in order to get there. As is he'd be a brag worthy trophy. If he can get to full maturity he'd be generationally brag worthy.

I'd say there's near zero chance that's a 3.5yr old. I'm skeptical he's only 4.5yrs but that's all the older I'd assign unless I had trail cam history to prove otherwise. I've got a giant rack 5.5yr old this year that looks exactly like a 3.5yr old. Last year as a 4.5yr old he looked 4.5yrs old. His rack didn't grow either. It's same as last year but looks bigger because of his shriveled body.
 
Because we're not managing for trophies, or even mature bucks, I would shoot that buck in a New York minute, and I don't care his age (beyond the fact he's at least 3 1/2). My criteria are 3 1/2 and make our Top 20 all-time (gross score). He is certainly 3 1/2 and he would probably make our Top 5 all-time. All it takes to make our Top 5 is break 133.
 
A buck like that if truly is only 3.5 or 4.5 could have a legit chance of being a state record at 5.5. But he has to live in order to get there.
That's a fact, and this buck's chances of surviving the 2025 deer season are virtually nil because most hunters are going to immediately shoot him without considering his age. Add to this several accomplished trophy buck hunters, including BSK, will be specifically targeting this buck.

Worse, this buck has a greater chance of being illegally poached than a more average antlered buck, as even some local poachers may be specifically targeting him. This is just another aspect of hunters', or poachers' antler high-grading of the very largest antlered bucks.

With free-range deer in most rural areas of TN, I believe a deer manager would need at least 10,000 contiguous acres to have even a good chance of insuring this buck's survival another year. I say this because I've seen so many similar situations where the targeted buck was killed over 2 miles from where some accomplished hunters felt it probable they were going to kill it.

But even with 10,000 or more acres, trigger-restraint becomes challenged by many hunter-managers with even the best management plans for producing top-end mature bucks. At least with free-ranging deer in TN.
 
That's a fact, and this buck's chances of surviving the 2025 deer season are virtually nil because most hunters are going to immediately shoot him without considering his age. Add to this several accomplished trophy buck hunters, including BSK, will be specifically targeting this buck.

Worse, this buck has a greater chance of being illegally poached than a more average antlered buck, as even some local poachers may be specifically targeting him. This is just another aspect of hunters', or poachers' antler high-grading of the very largest antlered bucks.

With free-range deer in most rural areas of TN, I believe a deer manager would need at least 10,000 contiguous acres to have even a good chance of insuring this buck's survival another year. I say this because I've seen so many similar situations where the targeted buck was killed over 2 miles from where some accomplished hunters felt it probable they were going to kill it.

But even with 10,000 or more acres, trigger-restraint becomes challenged by many hunter-managers with even the best management plans for producing top-end mature bucks. At least with free-ranging deer in TN.
Without question, TRUE Trophy Management without quite a few thousand acres to work with is difficult. It can be done, but the success rate of getting a really top-end bucks to full maturity is very difficult, especially considering he's probably a "trophy" to most hunters at a young age.

Thank goodness we're not trophy hunters! We would probably never kill a buck if we were.
 
I don't care his age (beyond the fact he's at least 3 1/2). My criteria are 3 1/2 and make our Top 20 all-time (gross score). He is certainly 3 1/2 and he would probably make our Top 5 all-time. All it takes to make our Top 5 is break 133.
THIS is a testament to why TN is not capable of regularly producing the higher scoring bucks of many trophy-destination states such as Ohio, KY, IL, Iowa, etc.

And I'm not criticizing BSK's criteria, as his "shooter-buck" standards greatly exceed those of the average TN hunter.

Just trying to point out that a large tract of land, in one of TN's best "trophy" buck counties, under quality deer management for over two decades, still has harvested only one 130-ish-class or greater buck about every 4 years? Or about 1 per 20 years per avid hunter?

Most of us have better odds for a buck scoring over 150 via hunting public lands in any of the before mentioned states, than even well managed TN private lands. This is in large part due to differences in our soils, but also due to our statewide deer regulations.

I can't change TN's soils, but would I change anything about our TN deer seasons & regs?
Not much.
But longer gun deer seasons, and higher buck limits do come with the price of fewer the better antlered young bucks surviving to become top-end antlered mature bucks.

But since we can't make TN soil identify itself as Iowa soil, why dramatically change our deer regs to mimic those trophy-destination states?
 
Thank goodness we're not trophy hunters! We would probably never kill a buck if we were.
Most of us, including you, are in fact "trophy" hunters :)
By current definitions, we are not "managing" our properties
for top-end "trophy" bucks, which is pretty much an effort in futility anywhere in TN.

At issue is just how we define a "trophy".
For some, it's "any" deer.
For others, it's "any" buck.

For you, it may be any buck 3 1/2 or older,
with the caveat of above average antlers?

With extremely rare exception, the only places there is little to no antler high-grading is a very large acreage area with zero deer hunting?

I'm happy to reduce antler high-grading just by paying attention to age as much as antlers, while still enjoying lots of hunting :) Educating myself & other hunters to the merits of age-based harvest decisions has been a good step to reduce statewide antler high-grading.
 
Most of us, including you, are in fact "trophy" hunters :)
By current definitions, we are not "managing" our properties
for top-end "trophy" bucks, which is pretty much an effort in futility anywhere in TN.
I disagree with that. I've seen it successfully done. But it does require absolute trigger control over a decent sized area (a couple of thousand acres). Plus, it requires having land in the better soil areas of TN.

With extremely rare exception, the only places there is little to no antler high-grading is a very large acreage area with zero deer hunting?
Without question, the areas with the least high-grading have the lowest buck harvest densities. And by that I mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 buck killed for every 1,000 acres.

I'm happy to reduce antler high-grading just by paying attention to age as much as antlers, while still enjoying lots of hunting :) Educating myself & other hunters to the merits of age-based harvest decisions has been a good step to reduce statewide antler high-grading.
Without question, adopting age-based harvest criteria has been the most effective method I've seen for reducing high-grading. Not eliminating it, but reducing it. I've seen properties produce almost miracles of reduced high-grading through this method.
 
TheLBLman said:
Most of us, including you, are in fact "trophy" hunters :)
By current definitions, we are not "managing" our properties
for top-end "trophy" bucks,
which is pretty much an effort in futility anywhere in TN.
I've seen it successfully done. But it does require absolute trigger control over a decent sized area (a couple of thousand acres). Plus, it requires having land in the better soil areas of TN.
Similar to each of us defining a "trophy" buck, the definition of futility may be different for each of us as well.

For about as long as you've managed the deer hunting on your place, only a few miles from you, I've managed a large private acreage under more stringent shooter buck rules than your place. Yet my long-term harvest results have only been marginally better than yours.

I haven't been doing what you and I would call "trophy" buck management, although perhaps somewhere in between top-end QDM and that.

Most of the members in my group are targeting 4 1/2-yr-old or older bucks, with a few raising the bar to 5 1/2. Any 3 1/2 is legal, but most in the group would only take a 3 1/2 by mistake. We also have, not a 1-buck limit, not a 2-buck limit, but a 3-buck limit over any two consecutive years, i.e. it's a 1.5-buck limit.
Women, children, novices all play here by the same rules.

But even with substantial acreage, most of the top-end 2 1/2's will get killed outside our property lines before they become 3 1/2's. Most of these top-end 2 1/2's are scoring 100 to 115. A small percentage of these will survive to 3 1/2, but very few of them will survive to 4 1/2.

Different story with the below average antlered 2 1/2's & 3 1/2's, as most of them survive to 4 1/2 or older. But few of them will ever have antlers scoring above 130, just like you've seen on your place.

So to me, having more stringent "trophy" buck management would be an exercise in futility (in TN), as the number of bucks available above 130 would become relatively unchanged. Based on what I've seen at Ames (over 18,000 acres) and some other large properties, QDM works here, but a higher-level true "trophy" buck management (like the King Ranch, etc.) requires probably at least 10,000 acres in TN.

Think about this, Ames has been one of the largest, most intensely-managed deer clubs in TN for decades. How many bucks above 150 inches have been killed there total over time? Any net 170's? Meanwhile, some pretty small acreages in nearby states like Ohio, KY, IL regularly produce (like annually) bucks over 150.

It's all about what you want from your hunting experience, and our choices become some kind of trade-off between more of one thing for less another.
 
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Without question, the areas with the least high-grading have the lowest buck harvest densities. And by that I mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 buck killed for every 1,000 acres.
If I had zero hunting around me, buck mortality was only from natural causes and me killing them, I guarantee you I would be killing 10-15 bucks per year on 1000 acres.

Every 1.5y/o spike would die.
Every 2.5y/o with less than 8 points would die
Every 3.5 y/o with less than 8 points and gross score of less than 115" would die.
Every 4.5 y/o that scores less than 125" would die.

But that's the EXACT OPPOSITE of high grading :)
 

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