Pretty neat read.
a Wolf-Loving, Elk-Killing Tree Hugger
- Thread starter RUGER
- Start date
777rellik
Well-Known Member
Good stuff,he is so right the out of doors is a filter for the soul of the hunter...
Not sure I understand his stance on "climate change" or "drilling"?
Overall it was a really neat read, I sort of look at myself like that. I read Muir and vacation in National Parks, yet make a little money off hunters and hunt every free chance I get.
I really respected his comment on the negative image some hunters give to the game, "They fear and hate to actually hunt. They just love to kill."
One difference between him and I is; I do not want to be eaten by a grizzly, maybe post-mortem after my wife has done with me what she pleases.
Overall it was a really neat read, I sort of look at myself like that. I read Muir and vacation in National Parks, yet make a little money off hunters and hunt every free chance I get.
I really respected his comment on the negative image some hunters give to the game, "They fear and hate to actually hunt. They just love to kill."
One difference between him and I is; I do not want to be eaten by a grizzly, maybe post-mortem after my wife has done with me what she pleases.
Vermin93
Well-Known Member
Interesting read. Some of it I could relate to quite well. Other parts, not so much.
I poked around a little and learned that the writer is a gay, former US Marine who lived in Berkley, CA as recently as June 2012. Guess he must have moved to Missoula, MT since then. He's written some pieces that would get this place spun up pretty quick. He's actually got 3 different blogs called -
My Gay Agenda
OUT into the Wilds
From The Wild Side
Definitely an interesting perspective from a tree hugging, gay, anti-hunter, hunting, former Marine.
I poked around a little and learned that the writer is a gay, former US Marine who lived in Berkley, CA as recently as June 2012. Guess he must have moved to Missoula, MT since then. He's written some pieces that would get this place spun up pretty quick. He's actually got 3 different blogs called -
My Gay Agenda
OUT into the Wilds
From The Wild Side
Definitely an interesting perspective from a tree hugging, gay, anti-hunter, hunting, former Marine.
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
Vermin93 said:
Funniest sentence I've read in months.
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I liked this blog, but his one on stripers was even better. It was very well-written.
Loving the wolf is like being a biologist and loving a plague.
What many love is hearing the wolf, that sound sent chills down many a woman and child in days gone by and caused the men who had to travel in groups for safety from the packs that often roamed in hundreds to quicken their pace back to their clear cuts and their families. On horrific occasions men would return and find there mud roofed shelter tore of and nothing but bits left of their women and children who in terror were tore apart alive.
To love the sound of the wolf is turning a deaf ear to the terror and screams of those women and child who perished and the men who lost their loved ones.
Pay particular attention to the last line of this article.
********Wolf hybrid shot during attack**********
October 21, 2012
Salem News
Save |
CALCUTTA - A Gipner Street man whose pet goat was killed on his property a week ago is concerned that it could just as easily have been a child or elderly person which fell prey to the marauding wolf-dog that ultimately had to be shot by St. Clair Township police.
James Davis was at work more than an hour away just before 7:30 a.m. last Friday when his frantic girlfriend called him to report one of his three pet goats, Calli, was being attacked by either wolves, coyotes or large dogs.
"She didn't know what to do. They got (the goat) at the back porch and dragged it 100- to 150-feet past the goat pen," Davis recalled, saying his girlfriend began screaming at the attacking animals, beating on the walls in an attempt to distract them, and calling 911.
Meanwhile, Davis' other two goats, Boots and Zana, had run off when the first goat was grabbed.
"If my girlfriend hadn't been here, I can't imagine what I would have come home to," Davis admitted.
When township officers arrived on the scene, their first report at 7:34 a.m. was that dogs were "eating at a goat."
Calls were made to the county dog warden, but at 7:54 a.m., three shots were fired by Patrolman Scott Mick, who reported one of the attacking animals was dead, while the others ran off.
Davis said this week he was advised by police that the animal they shot had turned aggressively toward Mick, but that policy did not allow him to shoot the others since they had not turned on him.
The previous night, township police had responded to a call of two wolves being seen near the intersection of Annesley Road and state Route 267, but an investigating officer did not run across them at that time.
In recent months, other police radio traffic has indicated officers in Liverpool Township were called to investigate roaming wolves in the Irish Ridge and state Route 267 area.
Whether or not these were the same animals is unknown.
Police Chief Don Hyatt said it was his understanding the animal shot by Patrolman Mick was a full-blooded wolf, but the other two were wolf hybrids. He was not immediately aware of the owners' names, and Mick could not be reached for comment Thursday.
A spokesman at the dog warden's office said earlier this week that the animal shot was a wolf hybrid and that it was licensed as such. She said its owner did not own the other dogs involved that day.
Although Davis reported a deputy dog warden who arrived on the scene just before 9 a.m. took the carcass of the dead wolf hybrid, the spokesman said, "We did not take the dog."
The spokesman said she believed the dog warden had spoken to the owner of the wolf hybrid but not to Davis and that the owner had not been cited.
"The owner is making arrangements to make restitution (to Davis)," she said.
However, Davis said that, while he suspects who owns the animal that killed his goat, he isn't sure and no one has contacted him.
"These animals are harmless. These are pets, not livestock. My daughter got them 10 years ago; she just graduated college. I'm hurt inside. Shouldn't I at least get an apology?" he asked, standing near the freshly-dug grave of Callie as Boots and Zana grazed nearby.
He said the surviving goats have been skittish since the incident.
While he has a chain-link pen and dog houses for the goats, Davis admitted they often run at large, but never leave his property. Saying he often hears coyotes in the woods surrounding his home, he said, "I've been here 22 years. They just roam around here. I always thought (the coyotes might attack the goats), but I never thought it would be someone's pets that did it."
Mainly, Davis is concerned that what happened to his pet could happen to a child or an elderly person if they happen upon these animals, if they continue to roam at large.
The dog warden could not be reached Thursday afternoon for more information, including the wolf hybrid's owner's name.
Wolf hybrids result from a mating between a wolf and a dog. According to an online legal firm Keller & Keller, there are currently about 1 million wolf hybrids in the United States.
Online statistics from DogsBite.org reported that, between 1982 and 2011, wolf hybrids were responsible for 84 incidents of bodily harm, 19 deaths and 48 maimings. They compose .001 percent of the nation's dog population.
In comparison, the statistics indicated pit bull terriers, which constitute .033 percent of the nation's dog population were responsible for 1,970 incidents of bodily harm, 207 deaths and 1,093 maimings.
German shepherd dogs accounted for 89 incidents of bodily harm, 12 deaths and 54 maimings, making up .014 percent of the nation's dog population.
In all three breeds, children were the primary victims.
What many love is hearing the wolf, that sound sent chills down many a woman and child in days gone by and caused the men who had to travel in groups for safety from the packs that often roamed in hundreds to quicken their pace back to their clear cuts and their families. On horrific occasions men would return and find there mud roofed shelter tore of and nothing but bits left of their women and children who in terror were tore apart alive.
To love the sound of the wolf is turning a deaf ear to the terror and screams of those women and child who perished and the men who lost their loved ones.
Pay particular attention to the last line of this article.
********Wolf hybrid shot during attack**********
October 21, 2012
Salem News
Save |
CALCUTTA - A Gipner Street man whose pet goat was killed on his property a week ago is concerned that it could just as easily have been a child or elderly person which fell prey to the marauding wolf-dog that ultimately had to be shot by St. Clair Township police.
James Davis was at work more than an hour away just before 7:30 a.m. last Friday when his frantic girlfriend called him to report one of his three pet goats, Calli, was being attacked by either wolves, coyotes or large dogs.
"She didn't know what to do. They got (the goat) at the back porch and dragged it 100- to 150-feet past the goat pen," Davis recalled, saying his girlfriend began screaming at the attacking animals, beating on the walls in an attempt to distract them, and calling 911.
Meanwhile, Davis' other two goats, Boots and Zana, had run off when the first goat was grabbed.
"If my girlfriend hadn't been here, I can't imagine what I would have come home to," Davis admitted.
When township officers arrived on the scene, their first report at 7:34 a.m. was that dogs were "eating at a goat."
Calls were made to the county dog warden, but at 7:54 a.m., three shots were fired by Patrolman Scott Mick, who reported one of the attacking animals was dead, while the others ran off.
Davis said this week he was advised by police that the animal they shot had turned aggressively toward Mick, but that policy did not allow him to shoot the others since they had not turned on him.
The previous night, township police had responded to a call of two wolves being seen near the intersection of Annesley Road and state Route 267, but an investigating officer did not run across them at that time.
In recent months, other police radio traffic has indicated officers in Liverpool Township were called to investigate roaming wolves in the Irish Ridge and state Route 267 area.
Whether or not these were the same animals is unknown.
Police Chief Don Hyatt said it was his understanding the animal shot by Patrolman Mick was a full-blooded wolf, but the other two were wolf hybrids. He was not immediately aware of the owners' names, and Mick could not be reached for comment Thursday.
A spokesman at the dog warden's office said earlier this week that the animal shot was a wolf hybrid and that it was licensed as such. She said its owner did not own the other dogs involved that day.
Although Davis reported a deputy dog warden who arrived on the scene just before 9 a.m. took the carcass of the dead wolf hybrid, the spokesman said, "We did not take the dog."
The spokesman said she believed the dog warden had spoken to the owner of the wolf hybrid but not to Davis and that the owner had not been cited.
"The owner is making arrangements to make restitution (to Davis)," she said.
However, Davis said that, while he suspects who owns the animal that killed his goat, he isn't sure and no one has contacted him.
"These animals are harmless. These are pets, not livestock. My daughter got them 10 years ago; she just graduated college. I'm hurt inside. Shouldn't I at least get an apology?" he asked, standing near the freshly-dug grave of Callie as Boots and Zana grazed nearby.
He said the surviving goats have been skittish since the incident.
While he has a chain-link pen and dog houses for the goats, Davis admitted they often run at large, but never leave his property. Saying he often hears coyotes in the woods surrounding his home, he said, "I've been here 22 years. They just roam around here. I always thought (the coyotes might attack the goats), but I never thought it would be someone's pets that did it."
Mainly, Davis is concerned that what happened to his pet could happen to a child or an elderly person if they happen upon these animals, if they continue to roam at large.
The dog warden could not be reached Thursday afternoon for more information, including the wolf hybrid's owner's name.
Wolf hybrids result from a mating between a wolf and a dog. According to an online legal firm Keller & Keller, there are currently about 1 million wolf hybrids in the United States.
Online statistics from DogsBite.org reported that, between 1982 and 2011, wolf hybrids were responsible for 84 incidents of bodily harm, 19 deaths and 48 maimings. They compose .001 percent of the nation's dog population.
In comparison, the statistics indicated pit bull terriers, which constitute .033 percent of the nation's dog population were responsible for 1,970 incidents of bodily harm, 207 deaths and 1,093 maimings.
German shepherd dogs accounted for 89 incidents of bodily harm, 12 deaths and 54 maimings, making up .014 percent of the nation's dog population.
In all three breeds, children were the primary victims.
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
So . . . when wild, huge, deadly predators are interbred with dogs and kept near pet goats, goats may get killed. And children are the primary victim of dog attacks which are primarily committed by large, aggressive breads.
And for these reasons we should hate wolves?
And for these reasons we should hate wolves?
I agree with a lot of this and enjoyed reading it. Not sure where he's going with climate change and drilling? But if he's a leftist you can figure it out. I hate to see new subdivisions go in as much as anybody, but population is growing and people have to live somewhere don't they? You can't blame people for not wanting to live inside the city walls.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I see a couple of personality traits and thought processes in the author that go a long way towards explaining his positions.
First and foremost, he is a confrontational contrarian. In essence, he revels in the fact he does not fit any mold. He's a unabashed tree-hugger, yet he hunts. He's gay, but an ex-Marine. And he really likes throwing his contrarianism at his readers. Honestly, I have no real problem with that.
Second, he is a "Westerner." And by that, I mean he hunts big game in the western U.S., which in turn means he primarily hunts in the mountains. Those who hunt big game in the mountains develop a specific focus on and appreciation for being as far into "the wilds" as possible, because that is where the best big game hunting is. To them, "the wild" equates to the best hunting, and "the wild" is defined by the least human intrusion and impact. This creates a mindset of the more civilization, the worse the hunting; i.e. the impact of Man is bad for hunting. And in their situation hunting elk, mule deer, etc., that is basically true. However, that is NOT the case for white-tailed deer, and western-only hunters don't seem to understand that.
He's a hardcore "greenie" with all the negatives that go along with that: the arrogance, the mental superiority, the misanthropy and belief Mankind is a virus infecting the Earth, and unfortunately, the blind ideological adherence to a lifetime of education by junk science.
I appreciate the author's love of and pride in hunting. However, his misunderstanding of basic wildlife biology and conditions outside of the western states, and his radical environmentalism based on ideology instead of science really gets on my nerves. He believes he is much more intelligent than he really is.
First and foremost, he is a confrontational contrarian. In essence, he revels in the fact he does not fit any mold. He's a unabashed tree-hugger, yet he hunts. He's gay, but an ex-Marine. And he really likes throwing his contrarianism at his readers. Honestly, I have no real problem with that.
Second, he is a "Westerner." And by that, I mean he hunts big game in the western U.S., which in turn means he primarily hunts in the mountains. Those who hunt big game in the mountains develop a specific focus on and appreciation for being as far into "the wilds" as possible, because that is where the best big game hunting is. To them, "the wild" equates to the best hunting, and "the wild" is defined by the least human intrusion and impact. This creates a mindset of the more civilization, the worse the hunting; i.e. the impact of Man is bad for hunting. And in their situation hunting elk, mule deer, etc., that is basically true. However, that is NOT the case for white-tailed deer, and western-only hunters don't seem to understand that.
He's a hardcore "greenie" with all the negatives that go along with that: the arrogance, the mental superiority, the misanthropy and belief Mankind is a virus infecting the Earth, and unfortunately, the blind ideological adherence to a lifetime of education by junk science.
I appreciate the author's love of and pride in hunting. However, his misunderstanding of basic wildlife biology and conditions outside of the western states, and his radical environmentalism based on ideology instead of science really gets on my nerves. He believes he is much more intelligent than he really is.
Outdoor Enthusiast
Well-Known Member
BSK said:
That is a trait no so uncommmon.
Oftentimes it is quite simple for me to "come back down to earth" when thinking about intelligence, or lack thereof; I simply reflect on Leibniz and Newton independently inventing calculus.
Southern Sportsman said:
What makes you think wolves won't breed with dogs when they leave the reservation? Just one more reason the reintroduction o wolves was not only a bad idea but criminally negligent given the history behind them.
These attacks happened, right? Most likely they didn't happen to the children because the attackers were hungry, what about when they are? What about when the food source on the reservation is depleted and the wolf leaves it in search of another source?
People haven't thought this through and for the record the term "documented" comes with a definition. Basically a witness has to see you killed by wolves.
This isn't a documented case, do you doubt it? What will happen when it's kids who are the target? AS for myself I will work to have the wolf promoter prosecuted when the wolf does again what it did before that our fathers took care of for us. There are plenty of laws coming on the books that prosecute those who do not control their pets, it isn't to much of a jump to accosiate the wolf promoter with ownership.
[color:#990000]TMattson treed by pack of wolves
November 8, 2010
By Dionna Harris
Save | Post a comment |
ESCANABA - When Delta Conservation District Executive Director Rory Mattson headed out to begin a forestry project Oct. 8 along Trombley Road, he didn't expect to find himself treed by a small pack of wolves.
According to Mattson, he was about two miles off the main road, on a seldom-used logging road, when he exited his vehicle and began walking along the logging track.
"As I was walking along this old logging road, I came upon the track of what could presumably be considered a rather large gray wolf," said Mattson. He said while looking at the track, he thought it would be cool to see the animal that left it.
Soon, much to his chagrin, that very thought would become prophetic in more ways than one.
Continuing further along the logging road, which was shaped like a horseshoe, Mattson came upon what he believed to be a she-wolf and a younger wolf, standing over a freshly-killed doe.
"When I saw them, I stopped a good 50 to 60 yards away. What I didn't notice, however, was one very large wolf beginning to angle his way toward me from behind," said Mattson.
It wasn't until after he heard the snarling and growling from behind that he realized the situation he was in.
Utilizing basic survival skills in relation to encounters with wildlife, Mattson began yelling and screaming at the animal and making himself appear larger - a bluff to make the animal leave.
"These wolves didn't leave at all. It appeared as if they had no fear of humans at all," said Mattson.
While attempting to scare the wolves off, Mattson said he was also assessing the situation at the same time, seeking a means of egress. He noticed a large pulp pile (old tree limbs, tops, etc.) and began edging his way toward it.
After reaching the comparable safety of the pulp pile, he grabbed a large poplar branch, brandishing it toward the wolf that had followed him.
"At this time, I was really looking for a tree or other means of escape, when I saw this balsam tree. Well, I dropped the branch I was using, and scurried about 10-feet up that balsam," he said.
While Mattson was in the tree, the wolf, which may have been the alpha male of this particular pack, continued circling round for a bit before apparently departing the immediate area.
"I waited for a good 15 to 20 minutes, all the time debating if I should climb down and take my chances or spend a cold night up in a tree," said Mattson.
Climbing down out of the tree, he picked up the stick he had dropped prior, and began cautiously heading back to where he had parked his vehicle. He reached it safely and without any further encounters with the wolves.
Brian Roell, a wildlife biologist with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and Environment, said he wished Mattson would have contacted DNRE offices following the encounter, allowing personnel to investigate the matter further.
Roell said it is common behavior for wolves or any other wild animal to shy away from human contact, generally running away when encountering humans.
"All wildlife needs to be treated with respect, and records indicate there have been no documented attacks on humans by wolves in the lower 48 states," said Roell. He added that all wild animals have the potential of being dangerous towards people.
One possible reason for the appearance that these particular wolves have no fear of humans, explained Roell, is they may have become acclimated or accustomed to being fed by humans and are habituated to look at them as a source of food.
"This is a rare occurrence, however, we see evidence all the time of wolves being shot," said Roell.
He said necropsies of deceased wolves has revealed lead and bird shot, along with rifle rounds being found.
"Currently the gray wolf is on the federal endangered and threatened species list, and cannot be legally killed. Until the species is removed from the federal listing, it is a crime to shoot them," said Roell.
He said there are cases where lethal control may be necessary; in those rare instances, the DNRE should be notified immediately so proper steps can be taken to document the incident.
[/color]
nodog said:
Imagine for a moment a still pond... as still as a sheet of glass. Then a single drop of water falls from the sky and hits the middle of that pond. Is there one little splash and nothing more? No. There's the initial event that is followed by an ever-increasing series of rings that radiate from the event itself.
Now, take that visual and put it into context with what you have said, which essentially that all predators should be eradicated. Predators are not the bane of existence that you have reported them to be. They are more like the cornerstone on which the rest of our habitats are built. Without that cornerstone, things get thrown all out of whack. An apex predators' typical prey stops acting like it should, mesopredators are no longer kept in check, biodiversity suffers (often to an extreme). The bane of the world, my friend, is not the animals; rather it is us because we think we have some sort of misplaced sense of dominion that is above and beyond nature when we SHOULD act more like a part of nature. Apex predators have restored the equilibrium to so many environments... some quick examples off the top of my head are oceanic sea otters to urchin (which restored kelp beds) and the wolf to Yellowstone and various places which restored the grossly overbrowsed forests from the herbivores (elk, moose), etc.
Not to be insensitive, but your viewpoint that anything with pronounced canines is evil is simply narrow-minded, ignorance fueled hysteria and I don't think you even remotely grasp the severity of the idea that you have so flippantly noted.
Respectfully yours,
Nevermind
I guess I can call this a "PS" but... in reading your other posting here, I'm not sure why people believe that an animal doing what an animal does is wrong. Is it sad? Sure. How many people root for the antelope as the cheetah chases it down? But in the end we are simply animals with a highly developed frontal lobe and apparently a proportionate level of egotism.
Great, dueling agendas.
