7mm PRC Optimal powder charge help... update... I give up!!!!

megalomaniac

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Bought a new factory Chriatenson Arms Ridgeline FFT in 7mm PRC a few weeks ago. Loaded up 47 factory 2nds 150g NBTs with a middle of the road powder charge of Re22 for bbl break in (box of 50 Hornady brass, pitched 3 right away due to extreme weight variances from mean).

Broke in the bbl with the shoot, clean... shoot 2, clean... shoot 3, clean.. shoot 4, clean... then shoot 5 and clean in between 5 shot strings until I finished off 40 rounds. Only going 2800fps average, book says they should have been closer to 3000 fps. No pressure signs, but one piece of brass during the break in had a slightly stick bolt lift and ejector marks.

Annealed the brass, left the 1 with ejector marks off to the side, then resized bumping the shoulder back 0.003in. Then switched to the 175 ELD-Xs and Re 25 to find optimum charge. Started at 66.0g working up to 68.7g in 0.3g increments (book max is 68.4g). Seated all bullets 0.020 off jam. Neck tension felt equal between all rounds, and seating them was butter smooth.

Shot the first 9 and found what I think is the optimum charge at 67.5g, but only going 2829fps (book says should be around 2950). Problem is, I was getting erratic pressure signs... see image.. light ejector marks at 66.9, but not at 67.2. Light ejector marks at 67.5, but not at 67.8, nor 68.1. Heavy ejector marks and sticky bolt at 68.4 (book max). Did not shoot the 68.7g load.

Group seemed to settle down to around 1in around the 67.5 mark as well (0.9in at 150y).

Plan was to take the optimum charge, then start varying seating depths in 0.005in increments to fine tune. But I'm confused by the erratic pressure signs... and also very disappointed I'm getting on average 125fps slower velocities per charge than book. Granted, I have a 22in bbl, and book test bbl was 24in. But I was figuring a loss of 50 to 60 fps, not 125.

Any thoughts on the erratic pressure? I would have thought headspace, but all base to shoulder lengths were measured with a headspace comparator after resizing. Unfired factory brass measures 0.008 less than my chamber, and I didn't overwork the shoulder, just set it back 0.003.

20 thousandths off jam should have kept me off the lands, even if there were bullet to bullet variances in location of ojive, and none of the rounds felt like bullet was touching the lands when I closed the bolt.

Now I'm not really sure where to go from here... just suck it up and accept around 2825fps from the 175s and current powder? Still a little room in the case... but with a 22in bbl, I'm not sure switching to a slower burning powder like magpro, imr 7977, or retumbo which should fill the case completely will be completely burned in a shorter barrel.

Maybe try VV N565? Supposed to have a little more velocity with the double base burn rate, esp in a short barrel?

Hate to do it, but I may have to actually buy a box of factory ammo from Hornady in 7prc to compare.
 

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megalomaniac

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Case head at 68.1g re25
Bought a new factory Chriatenson Arms Ridgeline FFT in 7mm PRC a few weeks ago. Loaded up 47 factory 2nds 150g NBTs with a middle of the road powder charge of Re22 for bbl break in (box of 50 Hornady brass, pitched 3 right away due to extreme weight variances from mean).

Broke in the bbl with the shoot, clean... shoot 2, clean... shoot 3, clean.. shoot 4, clean... then shoot 5 and clean in between 5 shot strings until I finished off 40 rounds. Only going 2800fps average, book says they should have been closer to 3000 fps. No pressure signs, but one piece of brass during the break in had a slightly stick bolt lift and ejector marks.

Annealed the brass, left the 1 with ejector marks off to the side, then resized bumping the shoulder back 0.003in. Then switched to the 175 ELD-Xs and Re 25 to find optimum charge. Started at 66.0g working up to 68.7g in 0.3g increments (book max is 68.4g). Seated all bullets 0.020 off jam. Neck tension felt equal between all rounds, and seating them was butter smooth.

Shot the first 9 and found what I think is the optimum charge at 67.5g, but only going 2829fps (book says should be around 2950). Problem is, I was getting erratic pressure signs... see image.. light ejector marks at 66.9, but not at 67.2. Light ejector marks at 67.5, but not at 67.8, nor 68.1. Heavy ejector marks and sticky bolt at 68.4 (book max). Did not shoot the 68.7g load.

Group seemed to settle down to around 1in around the 67.5 mark as well (0.9in at 150y).

Plan was to take the optimum charge, then start varying seating depths in 0.005in increments to fine tune. But I'm confused by the erratic pressure signs... and also very disappointed I'm getting on average 125fps slower velocities per charge than book. Granted, I have a 22in bbl, and book test bbl was 24in. But I was figuring a loss of 50 to 60 fps, not 125.

Any thoughts on the erratic pressure? I would have thought headspace, but all base to shoulder lengths were measured with a headspace comparator after resizing. Unfired factory brass measures 0.008 less than my chamber, and I didn't overwork the shoulder, just set it back 0.003.

20 thousandths off jam should have kept me off the lands, even if there were bullet to bullet variances in location of ojive, and none of the rounds felt like bullet was touching the lands when I closed the bolt.

Now I'm not really sure where to go from here... just suck it up and accept around 2825fps from the 175s and current powder? Still a little room in the case... but with a 22in bbl, I'm not sure switching to a slower burning powder like magpro, imr 7977, or retumbo which should fill the case completely will be completely burned in a shorter barrel.

Maybe try VV N565? Supposed to have a little more velocity with the double base burn rate, esp in a short barrel?

Hate to do it, but I may have to actually buy a box of factory ammo from Hornady in 7prc to compare.
 

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megalomaniac

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Case head at 68.4g re25 (book max)... clearly unsafe pressures. Almost erased the headstamp from the case... plus some gas staining of primer pocket
 

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jlanecr500

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I ran the coal at SAMMI and again .100 longer. 68gr RL25 under the 175 ELDX is real close to the node, is at 60kpsi, and Calc velocity is 2861fps. You're not far off. With high bc projectiles, the only way to truly find the lands is for the bullet to not stick in the lands when using a mod case with comparator locked at measured max coal. Hold gun with barrel up. If it sticks, back off .010 at a time until.it doesn't. Then load your loads at your preferred distance off that length. In Other words, .020 off jam may be only .001 off the lands.
 

megalomaniac

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I ran the coal at SAMMI and again .100 longer. 68gr RL25 under the 175 ELDX is real close to the node, is at 60kpsi, and Calc velocity is 2861fps. You're not far off. With high bc projectiles, the only way to truly find the lands is for the bullet to not stick in the lands when using a mod case with comparator locked at measured max coal. Hold gun with barrel up. If it sticks, back off .010 at a time until.it doesn't. Then load your loads at your preferred distance off that length. In Other words, .020 off jam may be only .001 off the lands.
My cousin thinks when I do seating depth testing, I may actually find pressure drops some with increased jump. Will watch for a drop in pressure along with a drop in velocity. If that happens, I may be able to work powder charge back up from that seating depth. I think there's about another 1.5g powder capacity left in the case unfilled with the book max

But so far, not really impressed with the 7prc...

I got lucky with a fast bbl in my 7mmWSM... getting 3350 fps from the 140s out of a 25in bbl. (Was getting 3400 without pressure, but I backed off a tad to save bbl life)
 

jlanecr500

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I ran the same load with N565. Same barrel time, 70gr N565, pressure up to 61.5kpsi, velocity up.only 10fps to 2861fps. However, when I bumped the barrel length up to 24", velocity went up to 2940fps. That's nearly 100fps. A 26" bbl would yield 3000fps.

I'm in the same boat with my 22" 6.5 PRC. PRC'S really need longer barrels in order to truly utilize its potential.
 

Remi

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Velocity sounds about right


Pressure will drop as you seat deeper in the case.


The fastest powder in a long barrel is typically the fastest powder in a short barrel.


Go to Grafs and buy some Peterson Brass.


 

jlanecr500

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Ok, recalc the loads. Can see why groups tightened up at 67.5gr . Thats the desired barrel time for that node 1.175ms. Of course, you can drop to the next node at 1.285ms but you'll lose considerable velocity. The QL calculated load is below.
One little tidbit. With this particular load, for every .1" the COAL is reduced below 3.345, the charge reduces by 1gr, barrel time, velocity and pressure stay the same.
20240303_184545.jpg


The following QL calculated load is N565. The pressure is higher and velocity nearly the same. The bottom line is that no matter what brass you get, your velocity will never make it to 2900 fps. The PRC needs additional barrel length.
20240303_185132.jpg
 
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megalomaniac

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Ok, recalc the loads. Can see why groups tightened up at 67.5gr . Thats the desired barrel time for that node 1.175ms. Of course, you can drop to the next node at 1.285ms but you'll lose considerable velocity. The QL calculated load is below.
One little tidbit. With this particular load, for every .1" the COAL is reduced below 3.345, the charge reduces by 1gr, velocity and pressure stay the same.
View attachment 218180

The following QL calculated load is N565. The pressure is higher and velocity nearly the same. The bottom line is that no matter what brass you get, your velocity will never make it to 2900 fps. The PRC needs additional barrel length.
View attachment 218181
Ty SO much! That really helps a LOT!

I developed tennis elbow in my right elbow 14 months ago, and although it's better than it was, I still have a lot of pain in the elbow manipulating weight with my arm extended...

Because of this, I was struggling with my 11lb hunting rig swinging and repositioning while hunting. I needed a lightweight rifle to do it all, from whitetails to elk, from 50y to 500y. I figured the 7PRC would be it with 175g bullets at advertised 3000fps. I knew I would give up 50 fps with the 22in bbl, but that wasn't a big deal in exchange for more maneuverability.

With 175s at 2825fps, I'm thinking I should have gone with a short action to save an inch of length....

Thank you for checking vv n565... prob no reason to source some of that.
 

megalomaniac

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Velocity sounds about right


Pressure will drop as you seat deeper in the case.


The fastest powder in a long barrel is typically the fastest powder in a short barrel.


Go to Grafs and buy some Peterson Brass.


Still hoping Lapua picks up the 7 prc... but at the moment, I think Hornady and Peterson are the only manufacturers of 7 prc brass. I'll get some.peterson on order, as I've heard it's decent brass, better than Hornady
 

Remi

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Still hoping Lapua picks up the 7 prc... but at the moment, I think Hornady and Peterson are the only manufacturers of 7 prc brass. I'll get some.peterson on order, as I've heard it's decent brass, better than Hornady



The Peterson brass I have is as consistent and tough and my friends Lapua brass. I did have to rework my loads from Hornady brass but accuracy improved and es/sd numbers are excellent. I have some 6.5cm brass with 15 loads on them and they're still holding tight.
 

megalomaniac

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So back to the range with fixed powder charge of 67.5g Re25.

Started 20thousandths off jam, brought my press with me to incrementally adjust depths in 0.006in increments.

Seems like it really liked a decent jump... a little node at 2.636 base to ogive... but velocities settled down and groups tightened up a a base to ogive of 2.608 (0.056 off lands).

ES settled down there as well.

And pressure signs (faint ejector marks at 20 thousands) disappeared as I seated deeper

Looks like I found my load for this bullet. Disappointed it's only 2810fps in a 7PRC, but that's all I can ask it to do.

When I want some more self flagellation, I'll work up a load for the 190g Hornady aluminum tipped match bullets.

(Groups were at 175 yards today)
 

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Remi

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So back to the range with fixed powder charge of 67.5g Re25.

Started 20thousandths off jam, brought my press with me to incrementally adjust depths in 0.006in increments.

Seems like it really liked a decent jump... a little node at 2.636 base to ogive... but velocities settled down and groups tightened up a a base to ogive of 2.608 (0.056 off lands).

ES settled down there as well.

And pressure signs (faint ejector marks at 20 thousands) disappeared as I seated deeper

Looks like I found my load for this bullet. Disappointed it's only 2810fps in a 7PRC, but that's all I can ask it to do.

When I want some more self flagellation, I'll work up a load for the 190g Hornady aluminum tipped match bullets.

(Groups were at 175 yards today)



Pretty much anything I shoot behaves the best .040-.070" off the lands. The consistency of closer just doesn't hold up.






Glad it settled down
 

jlanecr500

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@jlanecr500

How about Win Staball HD powder in this case? I can't find any load data out there, and I doubt it will take my slow poke bbl over 2900, but hoping for a miracle :)
QL doesn't have that powder or it's values. QL does have a function that allows the user to input a range of powder ba values and it will calculate loads with powders in that range using the current load values. Pay close attention to fill %, max pressure, and velocity. The upper loads are above 2900fps. Obviously, start 1 or 2 grains low just incase QL ba values don't match the ba of your bottle of powder. This function really helped us develop loads for sml's as they aren't limited to case capacity and we were shooting loads that had never been fired by anyone.
20240305_080216.jpg
 
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megalomaniac

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have delved deep into the reloading forums... pretty much noone is getting 3000fps with a 24in bbl safely with the 175 eld-xs. 2950 is where it's at for accuracy. 22in bbls are getting 2825-2850.... so its normal to lose 50fps per inch of bbl in this cartridge.

Guys are also running 20in bbls (specifically to be used hunting with a can). They are getting 2725 or so with the 175 Eld-x's

Got some of the 190g Aluminum tipped match bullets on order. They supposedly have a 0.838 g1 BC
 

jlanecr500

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have delved deep into the reloading forums... pretty much noone is getting 3000fps with a 24in bbl safely with the 175 eld-xs. 2950 is where it's at for accuracy. 22in bbls are getting 2825-2850.... so its normal to lose 50fps per inch of bbl in this cartridge.

Guys are also running 20in bbls (specifically to be used hunting with a can). They are getting 2725 or so with the 175 Eld-x's

Got some of the 190g Aluminum tipped match bullets on order. They supposedly have a 0.838 g1 BC
I think you can break 2900fps with N570. Look at the QL table above.
 

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