Declining duck hunting

[bluewinged46er]

... its a contest to see how many days you hunt, how many you killed ...

That's one thing I have not understood about duck hunting. It seems like it's about the numbers. How many were killed? Line them up and take a picture and post it for everyone to see and be envious. (I confess to having done that once.) But it seems like it is not so much about the quality of the experience as it is about being able to say we limited out by 8:30. That's one thing I don't understand about the duck hunting culture whether it's TN, AR, ND or anywhere else.

 

[Bgoodman30]

What I mean is I blame Duck Dynasty for the increased popularity of duck hunting over deer hunting. I do agree with you on hunting way too many days, and shooting at every bird swinging within 50 yards. Heck, I've seen em shoot at birds 75-100 yards from the blind.

I don't see it. It was a problem way before duck dynasty.

 

[Bgoodman30]

That's one thing I have not understood about duck hunting. It seems like it's about the numbers. How many were killed? Line them up and take a picture and post it for everyone to see and be envious. (I confess to having done that once.) But it seems like it is not so much about the quality of the experience as it is about being able to say we limited out by 8:30. That's one thing I don't understand about the duck hunting culture whether it's TN, AR, ND or anywhere else.

Yeah I see your point. Usually the numbers kind of tell the story. If you're killing more then the ducks are working better to calls, everyone's high fiving and having a good time. Everyone's happy including the dog. Usually better. Even though I have certainly had more memorable hunts shooting 12 in the trees than 60 in a blind..

 

[CBU93]

I think the people that complain the most are the ones that go to the same hole or holes (2-3 total holes) on private ground every single time they hunt. And if the birds arent there, then the birds don't exist and something needs to be done.

The people that are mobile, and go where the birds actually are still successful will continue to have a great deal of success.

That is absolutely true, but not all people have the means, equipment, or time to chase the ducks as you point out about mobility. The ones that can and do undoubtedly tend to see more success.

 

[Kevin]

That is absolutely true, but not all people have the means, equipment, or time to chase the ducks as you point out about mobility. The ones that can and do undoubtedly tend to see more success.

That is all well and good, but often times they are the most vocal about their seasons not being successful, or that "duck hunting isn't what it used to be".

 

[tickweed]

A factor many havent mentioned Is the last three years, we have had very low productivity with the Mallard hatches. The mallards being hunted, many are 3 yrs old or older. Done seen it all. We started out strong, then big cold front, we stomped. Then big rain, they scattered. Never came back. Then the ducks on whites lake settled in. Mild temps, feed at nite ,sit all day. Just no decent weather. The last two days, big weather change, we stomped again. Weather, weather, weather

 

[BSK]

A factor many havent mentioned Is the last three years, we have had very low productivity with the Mallard hatches. The mallards being hunted, many are 3 yrs old or older. Done seen it all. We started out strong, then big cold front, we stomped. Then big rain, they scattered. Never came back. Then the ducks on whites lake settled in. Mild temps, feed at nite ,sit all day. Just no decent weather. The last two days, big weather change, we stomped again. Weather, weather, weather

Really interesting.

 

[TheLBLman]

Just to add my 2 cents to all this . . . . . . . . .

Compared to say, a couple decades ago & farther back . . . . .
There have now been "developed" many, many "private" duck holes in many agricultural areas previously NOT places attractive to waterfowl.

Many of these relatively "new" waterfowl "stopping points" are between long established other feeding & stopping points, particularly between the Tennessee River and the Mississippi River. Many these private areas are not as heavily hunted as most public areas, making these private areas more or less "new" waterfowl "refuges" between the more long-term existing refuges.

Many these setups which have been "developed" specifically for waterfowl are experiencing good waterfowl hunting now, and doing so in areas waterfowl previously had only flown over at a high altitude (un-workable to a hunter). Even if the duck population is essentially unchanged, when some of the ducks are killed in these "new" areas, there are fewer ducks going to be killed in those "old" areas.

My take is that whether the waterfowl numbers are higher or lower, they may still appear lower to most hunters because the birds are simply spread out more, feeding & resting in areas they previously did not. This in turn may make the hunting less productive in many traditionally good hunting spots. But at the same time, other people have "developed" new good hunting spots.

Lastly, these more newly developing waterfowl hunting areas typically are adding immensely to the regional food supply for waterfowl. This means the birds don't have as much need to be flying around looking for something to eat, which WAS the very activity often making these birds easily decoyed to waiting hunters in traditionally good hunting spots.

 

[TheLBLman]

Another "dynamic" particularly regarding West & Western Middle TN hunters, many have shifted their annual "hunting" more from deer to waterfowl. This in part due to CWD steadily spreading from West to East.

Actually, may be more due to the fear-mongering and policy changes related to CWD than CWD itself. Many people are now afraid to eat venison, and deer-hunting regulatory changes have made trophy buck management a huge challenge even for those with very large acreages. As a prime example, one needs look no farther than the 18,000 acre Ames Plantation, once a premier "trophy" buck managed club. If they can't do it with 18,000 acres, pretty low odds for someone with a lot less.

The result of this alone is lower quality waterfowl hunting on public lands.
But, just the opposite for deer, as there are fewer deer hunters on public lands,
including the vast public lands of East TN where CWD and it's deer-management-killing regulations have yet to arrive.

In a sense, deer hunting in TN may have come "full circle" to more similar to my childhood. Back then, West TN folks who were avid deer hunters commonly travelled to East TN, mainly to hunt the Cherokee National Forest, Catoosa, and Chuck Swan WMA (then called the Central Peninsula). At that time, most West TN counties didn't even have a deer season, and some might as well not now.

TWRA Veteran Passes On

 

[BSK]

Just to add my 2 cents to all this . . . . . . . . .

Compared to say, a couple decades ago & farther back . . . . .
There have now been "developed" many, many "private" duck holes in many agricultural areas previously NOT places attractive to waterfowl.

Many of these relatively "new" waterfowl "stopping points" are between long established other feeding & stopping points, particularly between the Tennessee River and the Mississippi River. Many these private areas are not as heavily hunted as most public areas, making these private areas more or less "new" waterfowl "refuges" between the more long-term existing refuges.

Many these setups which have been "developed" specifically for waterfowl are experiencing good waterfowl hunting now, and doing so in areas waterfowl previously had only flown over at a high altitude (un-workable to a hunter). Even if the duck population is essentially unchanged, when some of the ducks are killed in these "new" areas, there are fewer ducks going to be killed in those "old" areas.

I don't do much travelling west of KY Lake, but I know right along the lake, and especially in the Buffalo River bottoms that parallel the lake, the number of private "duck holes" (diked ag land with corn left standing) has sky-rocketed in the last 5-6 years. I have no idea how much of an impact this has on duck migrations, movements or hunting in more traditional areas. The duck club adjoining my place has been there a long time, and I don't know if this is true or not, but I was told by a member that they average killing 900-1,200 ducks per year (320 acres). Is this a lot? It sure sounds like a lot.

 

[BSK]

Honestly, I get calls from time to time asking if I do duck impoundment consulting. My response is always "Not only NO, but Hell NO!" No offense to any of you here, but I've never met a group that gets more frustrated and blames their neighbors more than duck hunters! They are a group you can NEVER make happy! last thing I need is clients who are never pleased with the results. Deer hunters are bad enough, and they can be really, really difficult!

 

[Bgoodman30]

Just to add my 2 cents to all this . . . . . . . . .

Compared to say, a couple decades ago & farther back . . . . .
There have now been "developed" many, many "private" duck holes in many agricultural areas previously NOT places attractive to waterfowl.

Many of these relatively "new" waterfowl "stopping points" are between long established other feeding & stopping points, particularly between the Tennessee River and the Mississippi River. Many these private areas are not as heavily hunted as most public areas, making these private areas more or less "new" waterfowl "refuges" between the more long-term existing refuges.

Many these setups which have been "developed" specifically for waterfowl are experiencing good waterfowl hunting now, and doing so in areas waterfowl previously had only flown over at a high altitude (un-workable to a hunter). Even if the duck population is essentially unchanged, when some of the ducks are killed in these "new" areas, there are fewer ducks going to be killed in those "old" areas.

My take is that whether the waterfowl numbers are higher or lower, they may still appear lower to most hunters because the birds are simply spread out more, feeding & resting in areas they previously did not. This in turn may make the hunting less productive in many traditionally good hunting spots. But at the same time, other people have "developed" new good hunting spots.

Lastly, these more newly developing waterfowl hunting areas typically are adding immensely to the regional food supply for waterfowl. This means the birds don't have as much need to be flying around looking for something to eat, which is the very activity often making these birds easily decoyed to waiting hunters in traditionally good hunting spots.

This is true. Its all about refuges now public and private.. I have seen farms be sold or change hands and pressure increase and or almost be totally removed to where they hold 10's of thousands of ducks... These private refuges can totally change neighboring farms flyway in one season... It happened to us and pretty much shut down duck traffic over one of our holes while increasing at another.. It only takes a few hundred yards shift to change everything.. I know of others on the other side of these private refugees scratching their heads wondering where all the ducks went...?

 

[RUGER]

That's one thing I have not understood about duck hunting. It seems like it's about the numbers. How many were killed? Line them up and take a picture and post it for everyone to see and be envious. (I confess to having done that once.) But it seems like it is not so much about the quality of the experience as it is about being able to say we limited out by 8:30. That's one thing I don't understand about the duck hunting culture whether it's TN, AR, ND or anywhere else.

A guy I work with hunts at Reelfoot.
He said early they hammered the jacks just "to get our numbers up".
I just had to smh.

 

[rukiddin]

Look at last years (I think) veterans/youth hunt. A week without pressure and massive cold front and everybody killed ducks. If that don't tell you weather and pressure play the biggest role, I don't know what will.
I dont duck hunt like I used to but still try to stay in the loop somewhat and all my contacts are private land hunters, The guys that are good at killing ducks are still killing ducks whether they're running traffic or they're setting up everyday.
I heard a podcast with Warren coco and he was talking about all the hunters in Louisiana complaining about how bad duck hunting was and it was refuges and big clubs fault for holding all the birds. He said something that made a lot of sense in regards to a rebuttal to those guys whining and complaining. He said "when's the last time you've seen a big push of robbins migrate through Louisiana? The kind that got our grandparents excited for a Robbin pie?" The answer is you don't. They don't have to. And that can make you understand the duck migration too.

 

[TheLBLman]

He said "when's the last time you've seen a big push of robbins migrate through Louisiana? The kind that got our grandparents excited for a Robbin pie?"

Interesting you should mention robins.
Robins were once widely hunted, almost into extinction in the United States.
They are also similarly migratory to most waterfowl, mainly differing in preferred habitat & food sources.

Are robins back, or did they ever leave? - Alberta Institute For Wildlife Conservation

Although the majority of robins have migrated back to Alberta from as far south as southern Mexico and Guatemala, some robins actually choose to

www.aiwc.ca

Another thought on waterfowl migrations . . . . . . .

Is it possible our purposeful creation of non-migratory flocks (mainly of Canadian geese) have created to more waterfowl becoming less migratory?

In my younger days, Canadian geese were relatively rare in Tennessee, and even rarer were non-migratory geese that are today considered as much a nuisance as a community asset.

 

[Displaced_Vol]

Look at last years (I think) veterans/youth hunt. A week without pressure and massive cold front and everybody killed ducks. If that don't tell you weather and pressure play the biggest role, I don't know what will.
I dont duck hunt like I used to but still try to stay in the loop somewhat and all my contacts are private land hunters, The guys that are good at killing ducks are still killing ducks whether they're running traffic or they're setting up everyday.
I heard a podcast with Warren coco and he was talking about all the hunters in Louisiana complaining about how bad duck hunting was and it was refuges and big clubs fault for holding all the birds. He said something that made a lot of sense in regards to a rebuttal to those guys whining and complaining. He said "when's the last time you've seen a big push of robbins migrate through Louisiana? The kind that got our grandparents excited for a Robbin pie?" The answer is you don't. They don't have to. And that can make you understand the duck migration too.

I love listening to Warren Coco and that first duckmen video with him & Phil is the best they ever made.

That and they have a fraction of the rice they used to in LA. Sugar cane and crawfish farms ain't getting it done for a duck. And a their freshwater marsh is turning into salt water marsh.
I'm not saying duck clubs and state ground that's not hunted can't have an affect locally or regionally to duck movement. But, when it comes to flyway level reasons as to why ducks aren't migrating like "they used to" (still relative) it's weather/climate and landscape level habitat changes.

 

[rukiddin]

Interesting you should mention robins.
Robins were once widely hunted, almost into extinction in the United States.
They are also similarly migratory to most waterfowl, mainly differing in preferred habitat & food sources.

Are robins back, or did they ever leave? - Alberta Institute For Wildlife Conservation

Although the majority of robins have migrated back to Alberta from as far south as southern Mexico and Guatemala, some robins actually choose to

www.aiwc.ca

Another thought on waterfowl migrations . . . . . . .

Is it possible our purposeful creation of non-migratory flocks (mainly of Canadian geese) have created to more waterfowl becoming less migratory?

In my younger days, Canadian geese were relatively rare in Tennessee, and even rarer were non-migratory geese that are today considered as much a nuisance as a community asset.

I'm not gonna lie. I cut my teeth shooting robins when I was younger. My grandfather would say "I bet mother (that's what he called my grandma) would fix us a big ol' robbin pie if you'd go shoot us 12 to 15". I'd go out with my crossman pellet rifle and get'em a mess. Ain't no shame in a good robin pie. Good vittles!!

 

[TheLBLman]

Learn Something New Every Day!

Ain't no shame in a good robin pie. Good vittles!!

Can't say I've ever eaten either a robin or a blackbird pie,
but do admit to eating crow

Many things done and many things eaten in times past
seem like made-up stories to many today.
But many of those things were actually true.

The tradition of eating small songbirds was widely practiced.
Robins were perhaps the most frequent "bird" table fare here in TN simply because they were so easy to bag. Send the kids out with some rocks, they would come back with some robins.

Blackbird pie is immortalized in the nursery rhyme 'Sing a Song of Sixpence'.
Interpretation of the 'four and twenty blackbirds' baked in a pie appears to be straightforward and owes its origin to an "entremet" dating back to the Middle Ages.

In sixteenth century French cuisine, an "entremet" was a dish served between courses as a novelty item for the entertainment of the nobility and upper classes. The 'four and twenty blackbirds' were in the pie but rather than being 'baked' they were alive. Furthermore, 'blackbird' was possibly a generic term meaning small songbirds in general.

A big, wide pie was baked for a royal banquet and over it a large dome of pastry was placed with a collection of live songbirds housed under the crust. The creation was carried to the table, the outer crust of the pie was opened and to the delight of the assembled guests the birds flew out calling as they escaped from their confinement within the outer pastry casing.

The modern take on the medieval idea is to have a huge mock-up cardboard cake wheeled in with a suitably attired, young, attractive person hiding within before bursting forth at the appointed moment of surprise.

But more back to waterfowl, has anyone ever eaten a coot?
My grandfather had an excellent recipe for coots, which were about as easy to bag as robins.

 

[Dodge Man]

Learn Something New Every Day!

Can't say I've ever eaten either a robin or a blackbird pie,
but do admit to eating crow

Many things done and many things eaten in times past
seem like made-up stories to many today.
But many of those things were actually true.

The tradition of eating small songbirds was widely practiced.
Robins were perhaps the most frequent "bird" table fare here in TN simply because they were so easy to bag. Send the kids out with some rocks, they would come back with some robins.

Blackbird pie is immortalized in the nursery rhyme 'Sing a Song of Sixpence'.
Interpretation of the 'four and twenty blackbirds' baked in a pie appears to be straightforward and owes its origin to an "entremet" dating back to the Middle Ages.

In sixteenth century French cuisine, an "entremet" was a dish served between courses as a novelty item for the entertainment of the nobility and upper classes. The 'four and twenty blackbirds' were in the pie but rather than being 'baked' they were alive. Furthermore, 'blackbird' was possibly a generic term meaning small songbirds in general.

A big, wide pie was baked for a royal banquet and over it a large dome of pastry was placed with a collection of live songbirds housed under the crust. The creation was carried to the table, the outer crust of the pie was opened and to the delight of the assembled guests the birds flew out calling as they escaped from their confinement within the outer pastry casing.

The modern take on the medieval idea is to have a huge mock-up cardboard cake wheeled in with a suitably attired, young, attractive person hiding within before bursting forth at the appointed moment of surprise.

But more back to waterfowl, has anyone ever eaten a coot?
My grandfather had an excellent recipe for coots, which were about as easy to bag as robins.

I have shot my share of both but I have never heard in my life of anyone eating them.

 

[TheLBLman]

I have shot my share of both but I have never heard in my life of anyone eating them.

When you're really hungry, a bird is a bird, and it all tastes like chicken.