2023 Agenda

[BSK]

2023 will be our fourth year following our TSI project which included hack-n-squirt and certain areas have good patches of grass and forbs....but after three years there are other areas where saplings are thick and taking over....poplar saplings in particular....and we do have a couple of areas that are not too steep that we hope to burn in the future...but in some other areas I'm interested in the herbicide application using a backpack sprayer....I would like to treat patches or blocks....with multiple acres in each block...then later compare it to non treated areas....and then the following year add more blocks....have different areas at different stages of early successional growth.

To show the power of cutting timber in a hardwood environment, below is a graph of my local deer population since 2003 (displayed on a 3-year running mean to take out highs and lows caused by small annual data sets). Notice the big jumps in population about 3 years after a timber cut, followed by a decline in population. That is due to the food sources created by opening the canopy peaking three summers after the timber is thinned/removed, then declining in volume as saplings canopy out sunlight from the ground. I hope to slow the post-peak decline this time around by keeping more of the timber cut areas in early-stage regrowth (weeds). In all previous timber cuts, thinned areas were just left to regrow back into forest naturally.

 

[Ski]

To show the power of cutting timber in a hardwood environment, below is a graph of my local deer population since 2003 (displayed on a 3-year running mean to take out highs and lows caused by small annual data sets). Notice the big jumps in population about 3 years after a timber cut, followed by a decline in population. That is due to the food sources created by opening the canopy peaking three summers after the timber is thinned/removed, then declining in volume as saplings canopy out sunlight from the ground. I hope to slow the post-peak decline this time around by keeping more of the timber cut areas in early-stage regrowth (weeds). In all previous timber cuts, thinned areas were just left to regrow back into forest naturally.

That is incredibly interesting. Thank you for posting. Looks to be about 5yr cycles, meaning by the 5th year you're back to square one. But to restart the cycle again should be much less intrusive as you'll only be clearing saplings, not timber. This graph helps me more than you could possibly know. I've got a meeting with a new forester on the 9th of January and one of the objectives of the cut will be to open a few areas for forb growth. This graph really encourages me, as well as gives me ideas on how & how often to maintain those prospective cleared areas.

 

[BSK]

That is incredibly interesting. Thank you for posting. Looks to be about 5yr cycles, meaning by the 5th year you're back to square one. But to restart the cycle again should be much less intrusive as you'll only be clearing saplings, not timber. This graph helps me more than you could possibly know. I've got a meeting with a new forester on the 9th of January and one of the objectives of the cut will be to open a few areas for forb growth. This graph really encourages me, as well as gives me ideas on how & how often to maintain those prospective cleared areas.

The answer is, if you want to let the cuts regrow naturally, cut more frequently. Otherwise, plan on doing "something" to restart the regrowth back to the weed stage after year 4 or 5.

 

[BSK]

And by the way, the muted peak around 2015 and the current huge peak are due to a combination of two factors. First, the timber cut before the 2015 peak was smaller in acreage. Secondly, my "neighbor" (a Federal Refuge) had decided to decimate the deer population by implementing an Earn-A-Buck harvest program. It worked. The local doe population was decimated. The very large current peak is because 1) the timber cut was the largest we've ever done (1/5th of the property), and 2) the "neighbor" finally ended the Earn-A-Buck program, allowing the doe population to rebound.

 

[bjohnson]

The answer is, if you want to let the cuts regrow naturally, cut more frequently. Otherwise, plan on doing "something" to restart the regrowth back to the weed stage after year 4 or 5.

Would burning every 4th year be a better alternative than burning every 3?

 

[DoubleRidge]

To show the power of cutting timber in a hardwood environment, below is a graph of my local deer population since 2003 (displayed on a 3-year running mean to take out highs and lows caused by small annual data sets). Notice the big jumps in population about 3 years after a timber cut, followed by a decline in population. That is due to the food sources created by opening the canopy peaking three summers after the timber is thinned/removed, then declining in volume as saplings canopy out sunlight from the ground. I hope to slow the post-peak decline this time around by keeping more of the timber cut areas in early-stage regrowth (weeds). In all previous timber cuts, thinned areas were just left to regrow back into forest naturally.

Very interesting data...and very motivating...thanks for sharing.

 

[BSK]

Would burning every 4th year be a better alternative than burning every 3?

Considering how quickly woody saplings can overtake even a well-burned area, I would still recommend every 3 years.

 

[Shooter77]

To show the power of cutting timber in a hardwood environment, below is a graph of my local deer population since 2003 (displayed on a 3-year running mean to take out highs and lows caused by small annual data sets). Notice the big jumps in population about 3 years after a timber cut, followed by a decline in population. That is due to the food sources created by opening the canopy peaking three summers after the timber is thinned/removed, then declining in volume as saplings canopy out sunlight from the ground. I hope to slow the post-peak decline this time around by keeping more of the timber cut areas in early-stage regrowth (weeds). In all previous timber cuts, thinned areas were just left to regrow back into forest naturally.

Looks like your buck #s stay about flat over the years while the doe and fawn numbers always increased after a timber cut. Any thoughts as to why that is?

 

[redblood]

i seriously thinking of just letting 99 percent of the home farm grow up.


And put in some corn in the creekbottoms on my family farm (decent land)

 

[Henry]

I really don't think I'll change much. The improvements I made this year brought in (or dumb luck did) more mature bucks than I've ever seen on that property. I worked hard and I think it paid off. The only thing I'd change would be not to get sick for 5 wks during the best part of the season. Outside of that, same plots in the same spots and I might add one set of climbing sticks in another location I have my eye on.

What did you change/do last year that helped?

 

[Henry]

My brother refuses to kill does because he thinks as long as he has them, bucks will flock in from surrounding areas during the rut. Problem is he's been thinking the same thing for many years straight now and each year there are more does & less bucks. They're getting bred alright .... just not on his place. They leave to get bred then come back to raise fawns on his ground. Now he's got a downward spiraling situation that's ruining his hunting.

My property is complete opposite. Any given year I have 2 or 3 mature does on 100 acres, and each one has a yearling or two and fawns. I have the same number and age structure of bucks any given year, and often more bucks than does. I've got legit chance of killing a mature trophy buck any time of season, not just the rut. My brother catches one or two mature bucks cruising his place per season, and it's usually at night. Before he began the habitat work to create what I call his "women & children shelter", he'd regularly kill a good buck. On paper the only difference between his place and mine is that he doesn't keep his does under control and I do.

It's been my experience that the years when I have the fewest does, I have the most bucks. And it makes complete sense. The land only has so many resources and those said resources are depleted by hungry mouths and bodies looking for cover. Doesn't matter what sex or age the deer is. It's consuming resources. If I didn't have does & fawns then those resources would be not only available to bucks, but inviting to bucks. My neighbors will still have plenty does.

I know that's not the popular "QDM" approach, and maybe even borders radical. Most folks want balanced sex and age ratios. I want a bachelor pad. That's just my experience and how I made sense of what I've personally experienced. I'm not trying to persuade you into killing off all your girls. All I'm doing is offering an example of a different perspective for conversation sake.

Ski, what you said is interesting to me...The property we bought last Fall hasn't been managed for 6 years. He was a kill bucks only guy and he had the trophies on the wall to prove it. However, I do know the front of our property is the fawn delivery room, as well as across the road. But the middle and rear of the property seems to be where they move in October. I took an 8 point 11/30 and know there were two other bucks here during rut, but only saw 1 before rut. Anyway, I need to make a decision on how I'm going to manage the property going forward so I'm interested in what the differences are between the two properties. We have a lot less deer here this year than we saw last Fall (all doe and fawn), but we've actually seen bucks for the first time this year so maybe we shouldn't change anything. I don't know. Will figure it out with more research/info. Thanks

 

[Henry]

It was the flu actually. Really whipped my tail. My youngest had it as well but she was over it in a week. My fatigue, etc. lasted about 10 days and then the cough. Ironically similar to when I had Covid just before archery season in 2021.

Consider taking 5000 iu of Vitamin D3 at breakfast and another 5000 iu at dinner...that's the stuff that helps people not get all the viruses. The wife of a friend of mine is a nurse. He has parkinsons. His doctor started him on D3 15 years ago. She and their son both got sick a couple years ago...guy taking d3 hasn't been sick yet. It's the only thing he's on that would cause this. Lots of studies showing it too. That's when we started taking it and have had the same results. It's cheap and available everywhere.

 

[BSK]

Looks like your buck #s stay about flat over the years while the doe and fawn numbers always increased after a timber cut. Any thoughts as to why that is?

Because so many of the bucks are non-residents. They only move in for the rut and then vanish. The does and fawns are mostly residents hence their population is more driven by local food quality/quantity.

 

[UCStandSitter]

What did you change/do last year that helped?

2 micro plots to concentrate the herd into two key ares that were easily accessed quietly.

Multiple step setups around these two areas that gave me flexibility in all wind directions.

Hinge cuts on known trails leading into these areas to focus travel. Took out lots of trees around and in the plots to let in more sunlight.

Absolute refusal to be on the property when it isnt right. In years past I would hunt when I was able to get out. This year I had to have the time, AND wind/weather had to be right.

Adding to this I have let MOST deer walk. To this point in the season I have killed 0. Had great shots on bucks and does I would've dropped in year's past.

The last two have been the hardest for me. I am willing to work hard, never been a problem. Patience has never come easy to me though. Several days sitting at home on my hands rather than loading up has driven me (and my wife) insane.

All of this is common sense but I've never had a place where I was fully in control on calling the shots. Been nice to be able to do things my way and see it pay off. What I still can't control unfortunately is when the other fellas hunt and what they harvest. Laying the groundwork for the others to be more selective next year as well. They have seen the results this year and are coming around to my way of thinking. If not, I have a wooden bat with a chain and saw blade embedded that might convince them

 

[Ski]

Ski, what you said is interesting to me...The property we bought last Fall hasn't been managed for 6 years. He was a kill bucks only guy and he had the trophies on the wall to prove it. However, I do know the front of our property is the fawn delivery room, as well as across the road. But the middle and rear of the property seems to be where they move in October. I took an 8 point 11/30 and know there were two other bucks here during rut, but only saw 1 before rut. Anyway, I need to make a decision on how I'm going to manage the property going forward so I'm interested in what the differences are between the two properties. We have a lot less deer here this year than we saw last Fall (all doe and fawn), but we've actually seen bucks for the first time this year so maybe we shouldn't change anything. I don't know. Will figure it out with more research/info. Thanks

I certainly won't recommend or advise doing anything. It's your own place to do as you feel best. But I do sincerely believe the idea that if you have lots of does & fawns, your buck numbers will suffer. A given property can only sustain so many mouths and it doesn't matter which sex those mouths belong to. Once that threshold is met deer will begin to move away and it's never the does. It's the bucks who leave. Whether food or space, it's a finite supply and does with fawns get priority choice.

In my idea of a perfect property, I'd know exactly how many deer could be sufficiently sustained, how many deer inhabit the place, and then be able to effectively run it below optimal carry capacity so that competition for resources is low and I'd always be attracting new deer. I've obviously never been able to achieve it, but the nearest I've ever been to it are the seasons that have been my best in terms of having older class bucks to reasonably hunt. I say reasonably because they spend enough daylight time on the property that I actually have a chance to kill one. Seeing one sometimes pass through in the middle of the night doesn't count. I want him living on my place and passing through everybody else's property in the middle of the night. That's when they're reasonably huntable. To that effect I've done pretty ok.

 

[BSK]

Ski, what you said is interesting to me...The property we bought last Fall hasn't been managed for 6 years. He was a kill bucks only guy and he had the trophies on the wall to prove it. However, I do know the front of our property is the fawn delivery room, as well as across the road. But the middle and rear of the property seems to be where they move in October. I took an 8 point 11/30 and know there were two other bucks here during rut, but only saw 1 before rut. Anyway, I need to make a decision on how I'm going to manage the property going forward so I'm interested in what the differences are between the two properties. We have a lot less deer here this year than we saw last Fall (all doe and fawn), but we've actually seen bucks for the first time this year so maybe we shouldn't change anything. I don't know. Will figure it out with more research/info. Thanks

I'm by no means one to dissuade hunters from making changes to their property to improve the hunting. However, be careful of making grand decisions based on any one year's data/observations. All sorts of things can happen to produce a "weird year," like the drought in western TN this year. I've been collecting data in the region for a long time, and I can honestly say I've never seen a year like this year (although 2007's drought and EHD outbreak were close).

 

[Ski]

I'm by no means one to dissuade hunters from making changes to their property to improve the hunting. However, be careful of making grand decisions based on any one year's data/observations. All sorts of things can happen to produce a "weird year," like the drought in western TN this year. I've been collecting data in the region for a long time, and I can honestly say I've never seen a year like this year (although 2007's drought and EHD outbreak were close).

I agree 110%. Focus on macro trends, not micro instances. I also don't like the idea of drastic changes. I prefer implementing small steps and waiting to see the results before pressing forward. Small changes can have pretty noticeable effects.

 

[Henry]

I'm by no means one to dissuade hunters from making changes to their property to improve the hunting. However, be careful of making grand decisions based on any one year's data/observations. All sorts of things can happen to produce a "weird year," like the drought in western TN this year. I've been collecting data in the region for a long time, and I can honestly say I've never seen a year like this year (although 2007's drought and EHD outbreak were close).

Found this last night. Any thoughts?
Since we have to wait for a moderator if we use a link, do a search on youtube for " Deer Habitat Plan and Hunting Strategy Holds More Bucks on 40 Acres In High Hunting Pressured Area " put out by See More Bucks

We're at just shy of 200 acres, but have hundreds more on one side that are not hunted or lived on, ag on a corner, some hunting pressure on one side, year round creek, a bottom land area with a beaver dam, etc.

 

[BSK]

I'll check it out.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

Let the sunshine in a few more places, and thin around some more whiteoaks