No decoys in AL first 10 days

[Andy S.]

As long as a NR hunter has the opportunity to kill 3 birds in as many days (it was 4 for many years), the $300 license ($100/bird) is not even close to a deterrent for most. $214 is an even better gig with 3 birds over 7 days, which is doable with the right hunter, right land and decent weather. Most hardcore hunters get in and get out, and move on to their next destination. Time is money, and time wasted is less opportunity in the next State. Birds are dying daily on public lands all across the country when season is open. There are only so many to go around.

 

[megalomaniac]

^^^ Was he wanting to kill one on film for you to see? His setup almost looks staged.

I wondered the same thing... a joke? But he stayed on that plot for 4 hours according to his sign in time and sign out time today.

Or maybe he thinks I'm baiting in front of the camera and can take advantage of that? The old deer feeder in the background was burned up 2y ago with our last timber burn. It just happens there is a trail from the pines that leads to the plot there, which is why I put my camera in that spot.

Amazing how much use the plots get you DONT capture on camera. When I eased in there late this afternoon to hopefully roost a bird, there was a lone hen in the plot that was never on my camera. But this plot is on a pipeline and is 125y long and 30y wide.

 

[megalomaniac]

As long as a NR hunter has the opportunity to kill 3 birds in as many days (it was 4 for many years), the $300 license ($100/bird) is not even close to a deterrent for most. $214 is an even better gig with 3 birds over 7 days, which is doable with the right hunter, right land and decent weather. Most hardcore hunters get in and get out, and move on to their next destination. Time is money, and time wasted is less opportunity in the next State. Birds are dying daily on public lands all across the country when season is open. There are only so many to go around.

Agreed. NR license fees are not set to deter hunters from coming... they are set just reasonable enough for the state to maximize revenue from the nonresident to entice them to hunt.. at the expense of the resource. But all states do that. TN is just one of the most expensive for NRs.

But it adds up quick when you have to pay NR TN fees for 3 kids to hunt your own land.

 

[Gobble4me757]

Why?

None of the regulation changes are backed by conclusive research. The "research" they released as the reasoning had some major flaws in the study's. I'm all for helping the turkeys out but when it's not backed by concrete research, it's just chuck and his buddies screwing us. You've probably never hunted south alabama..that said, everyone down there knows the turkeys are completely done by the third week in April as it looks like a jungle and hotter than hades. But let's just extend that date till may 8…birds have been broken up and hammering since the first of March and they pushed us back till the 25th after it was March 15 for years.

 

[big 8s in Weakley county]

TN nonresident turkey... $305 for annual, $214.50 for 7d

KY nonresident turkey... $235 (150 for license, 85 for tags)

Florida nonresident... $170.50 (46.50 for 10d license , 125 for tag)

All the western states average $125 for nonresident turkey if you take out AZ.

Maine nonresident turkey $135 (115 for license, 20 for turkey permit)

Massassusetts $108 (98 for license and 10 for permit)

TN is actually one of the most expensive states for NR to hunt turkeys in the country.

AND to top it off, nonresident landowners who pay property taxes to the state of TN STILL have to pay the extremely high nonresident rates. AND EVEN WORSE nonresident juveniles had to pay the full adult rates to hunt their own land in TN until a few years ago (I petitioned the state and wildlife dept so many times about this one, since virtually every other state in the US gives a discount to nonresident juveniles) thank goodness this was finally changed.

I can tell you ky is not a deal at $235. The season starts after TN and closes before TN. Also only 2 bird limit. For 305 TN is all game Ky will be 420 just to deer and turkey hunt. And guess what the season is shorter and only 1 buck. I have been hunting in Ky on family land for almost 25 years and am almost to the point to not to hunt over there because of the short seasons, lower bag limits, and rising cost of license. I can guarantee 305 for TN is alot better deal than Ky.

 

[megalomaniac]

I can tell you ky is not a deal at $235. The season starts after TN and closes before TN. Also only 2 bird limit. For 305 TN is all game Ky will be 420 just to deer and turkey hunt. And guess what the season is shorter and only 1 buck. I have been hunting in Ky on family land for almost 25 years and am almost to the point to not to hunt over there because of the short seasons, lower bag limits, and rising cost of license. I can guarantee 305 for TN is alot better deal than Ky.

$117 per turkey in KY if you average it out. Not bad for a NR for a state with incredible turkey hunting compared to other states with poor hunting.

 

[deerhunter10]

TN nonresident turkey... $305 for annual, $214.50 for 7d

KY nonresident turkey... $235 (150 for license, 85 for tags)

Florida nonresident... $170.50 (46.50 for 10d license , 125 for tag)

All the western states average $125 for nonresident turkey if you take out AZ.

Maine nonresident turkey $135 (115 for license, 20 for turkey permit)

Massassusetts $108 (98 for license and 10 for permit)

TN is actually one of the most expensive states for NR to hunt turkeys in the country.

AND to top it off, nonresident landowners who pay property taxes to the state of TN STILL have to pay the extremely high nonresident rates. AND EVEN WORSE nonresident juveniles had to pay the full adult rates to hunt their own land in TN until a few years ago (I petitioned the state and wildlife dept so many times about this one, since virtually every other state in the US gives a discount to nonresident juveniles) thank goodness this was finally changed.

my time out of state has been for deer hunting so tags and license are different. Also didn't realize you didn't live in tn.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

None of the regulation changes are backed by conclusive research. The "research" they released as the reasoning had some major flaws in the study's.

Researching a complicated issue in a population of wild animals is very rarely going to be "conclusive." There are undoubtedly multiple issues contributing to turkey population declines. Some are can be addressed with regulation changes. Some can't. But Alabama's regulation changes are in line with the recommendations of the the worlds leading wild turkey biologists and the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife agencies.

What flaws did you find in the research?

 

[Carlos]

With regulation changes in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, you can expect Tennessee to get absolutely raped by nonresidents worse than it ever had before. May as well get used to it though, as they will never change regulations to discourage it.

The agency seems to be very slow to respond, any changes that may happen take a decade or more to be put in place.

 

[Carlos]

I doubt it but that's because I don't see how they can kill 40k+ birds like last year. Not as many sitting around getting paid for doing nothing like last year either. 2021 was an anomaly I hope and from reading multiple other state forums and from my experience it was a mad house no matter where you went. With that said, people might as well get use to the crowds. Gotta love social media and the YouTube stars

I actually didn't get paid for 'doing nothing' I was turkey hunting every day in the spring of 2020 season, and that was awesome btw. I knew it couldn't last long though, that's why I made sure to take advantage of it.

 

[deerfever]

I don't think TWRA can win in this situation with anyone. They will never please all involved with whatever they decide. I thought some of the counties mentioned Giles, Lincoln, Wayne ,have been put in what's called the MAV unit and have a two week later starting date, 2 bird limit and a study to see why turkeys declined in those areas and the study will see if the whole state will benefit from these changes? I believe others areas of the state also have a shorter season and lower limit. That seems pro active to me in specific targeted areas of need to see if the parameters in place make a difference. Giles is probably in your top 5 to 10 out of 95 counties in the state in harvest and that was with a shorter season and lower limits, could it be on an upswing( I hope so)? I say that not to make light of anything that has happened in those counties as I know at one point they were better than now but some areas of the state are actually on the rise with turkey population, that is what is so strange to me. So for every call TWRA gets wanting to go with a two week later season and a 2 bird limit they will get other calls mad about the limit going from 4 to 3. I have no problem with whatever they set the limit and season dates ,as long as they base it off of research, study and data. TN is leading the way with research on turkey right now with the study they are doing. TWRA cut the limit to 3 for the whole state, cut the killing of hens , took away bonus birds and made season dates later with lower limits for certain counties in need to study the effects ,but have been slow to react? Go to Alabama hunter website and read the gentleman on here from Alabama is not alone at all. You will not find any complaints about no decoys, they were illegal forever in Alabama. What you will find are a ton of guys ready to explode over moving season dates without proper evidence that it will benefit the turkey population. TN could lead the way and provide evidence one way or the other with this study for other states to make decisions that are justified, show the evidence in other words. TN could set limits on how many non residents can come the first two weeks on public land, simply make them apply and be drawn for a public land permit . Other states have done that due to all the covid hunters to help with the issue . I have not heard anything but positive things about our turkey coordinator , so I will just wait on the results and know TWRA has already put things in place for the areas in the MAV unit that could make a huge difference for all of us in the future when the study ends . I believe the study is about to conclude( this year, next)? Glad to see the THP boys on board! They have not done anything at all to promote or increase pressure on public hunting lands , LOL. I cannot believe our state agency paid these guys , makes the cost of my lifetime license hurt even more! Again it's a tough balancing act for TWRA trying to please a whole state that have different views on what needs to be done. I am sure I am in the minority here with this but just a thought of what the state agency is dealing with and mention the the things that have been done by TWRA.

 

[younggun308]

The one thing I think is ludicrous is eliminating bonus birds. Those tags generally were given on properties that only get pressure from quota hunters (Yuchi, Swan, etc). Why count a bird from those properties against a hunter's limit?

 

[deerfever]

The one thing I think is ludicrous is eliminating bonus birds. Those tags generally were given on properties that only get pressure from quota hunters (Yuchi, Swan, etc). Why count a bird from those properties against a hunter's limit?

Yes sir! I do not understand that one at all. Like you said those are specific areas with limited quotas and not part of the statewide season at all.

 

[Andy S.]

Many "locals" that do not have private land to hunt, are all for the removal of "bonus birds" on select public lands in their immediate area. They prefer the various quota hunts being a "statewide bird" as it likely eliminates pressure from the "traveling turkey hunter" that is looking for one more tag, thus increasing the locals odds of being drawn more times over the years.

 

[cowhunter71]

None of the regulation changes are backed by conclusive research. The "research" they released as the reasoning had some major flaws in the study's. I'm all for helping the turkeys out but when it's not backed by concrete research, it's just chuck and his buddies screwing us. You've probably never hunted south alabama..that said, everyone down there knows the turkeys are completely done by the third week in April as it looks like a jungle and hotter than hades. But let's just extend that date till may 8…birds have been broken up and hammering since the first of March and they pushed us back till the 25th after it was March 15 for years.

Sounds like South Alabama Turkey Hunters are a bunch of ignorant fools, according to you, but then again you have the "their done" crowd anywhere you go anymore.

 

[TheLBLman]

Many "locals" that do not have private land to hunt, are all for the removal of "bonus birds" on select public lands in their immediate area. They prefer the various quota hunts being a "statewide bird" as it likely eliminates pressure from the "traveling turkey hunter" that is looking for one more tag, thus increasing the locals odds of being drawn more times over the years.

Andy is absolutely correct about his.
On many WMA's, they had become more or less the "killing fields" for a subset of highly-accomplished traveling hunters, especially with quota turkey hunts having "bonus" birds.

Besides from this, having quota hunt birds counting towards the "statewide" limit, it is an effort to help restore already fragile and low turkey populations in many areas.

Bottom line, everyone can apply, everyone has the same "odds" of being drawn.
This is actually an effort to improve the quality of the hunting for everyone when drawn.
But quality of the hunt is trumping quantity of birds you can legally kill.

And, since TWRA has been more than a bit slow in addressing real concerns our statewide turkey limit is too high, fewer "bonus" birds on WMAs also has a de facto effect in reducing the statewide limit.

 

[MickThompson]

The one thing I think is ludicrous is eliminating bonus birds. Those tags generally were given on properties that only get pressure from quota hunters (Yuchi, Swan, etc). Why count a bird from those properties against a hunter's limit?

Why have bonus birds to begin with? Hunting a lightly pressured flock should be draw enough.

 

[megalomaniac]

The research in TN is going to prove 4 things...

1... the majority of hens don't start setting until late April/ early May

2... the majority of nests are destroyed by predators, and many hens don't initiate nests at all

3... hunters are removing a larger percentage of gobblers than the biologists expected.

4...more adult birds are lost to predators than previously thought.

I'm all about doing a study, it will prove those 4 points above. But I'm sure the naysayers will still refuse to believe the truth.. Hopefully some grad students can get their names in some journals.

But anyone who lives in the turkey woods and loves them can come up with those same 4 conclusions without wasting a bunch of time and money.

The real question is what do we do about it? Are we as hunters and managers willing to do the hard things to ensure we have turkeys still around in huntable populations for our grandkids to enjoy?

 

[Andy S.]

Are we as hunters and managers willing to do the hard things to ensure we have turkeys still around in huntable populations for our grandkids to enjoy?

The million dollar question. Instant gratification, or sustainability of the resource, which do the masses prefer?

 

[Boll Weevil]

Are we as hunters and managers willing to do the hard things to ensure we have turkeys still around in huntable populations for our grandkids to enjoy?

Generally speaking, in my opinion…no.