young bucks chasing -- question

[Greg .]

I have a few yearling bucks on my land and the times I've been out, I have seen them heavily into chasing the does and being aggressive toward each other. This morning, heard a snort and chase, and later had a 3 pt yearling with a fresh wound on his right ham (pink meat showing) walk by (within 10 yards, so I got a good look). I think a slightly bigger-bodied and antlered forkie (I saw him, too) did this to him when I heard the snort-chase.

Question -- How much of an indication is this that there aren't any/many adult or mature bucks around? I remember BSK writing that older buck will produce hormones or some substance that suppresses rutting behavior in yearling bucks. These youngsters are serious.

 

[Food Plot 101]

Are you certain they're not 2.5 yo? Only a small difference in age but bigger difference in aggression.

 

[pass-thru]

I'm not an expert, but I've read where even with a balanced age structure, close to 20% of does are bread by yearlings. So even with big guys around, yearlings are participating, probably just not to the same degree. I imagine you can probably distinguish among yearlings, some are probably submissive and don't participate at all, some probably chomping at the bit and will fight an older buck, these would be the ones showing rutting behavior no matter what.

On a side not I was hunting this afternoon and had a yearling chase a button buck into range, then sent check him.....almost earned the button (which was a big one) an arrow through the lungs, but thankfully I saw the buttons first.

 

[156p&y]

Young bucks will sometimes even show this behavior in early bow season. We are getting close to seeing big deer on their feet. I don't think we will see any actual chasing until another week or two. The deer in middle TN just started scraping decent. I hunted a field this morning and watched 15 different does, and killed one that only had solid green in her stomach. At least I know where I'll be when they start coming in. I also watched an older doe pee on her hocks, this usually only happens right before and during the rutting phase. Several of the does were very interested in my buck decoy which also shows me a sign that are going to start interacting more with either sex in the next several weeks.

 

[Greg .]

Are you certain they're not 2.5 yo?

I'm as certain as I can be without looking at their teeth. One (the forkie) was right under me twice and the one that received the wound was within about 10 yards of me, so I got a good look at both. Both looked like does with little, thin, antlers.

I allways thought that "young" bucks chasing was a precursor to the actual rut.Big boys don't waste their energy till the does are actually receptive. Doesn't the amount of daylight\length of days trigger the rut?

Yes, it is an indication of the pre-rut, but I'm just asking what, if anything, does this tell me about the local buck population. And yes, as I understand it, it is photoperiod that triggers the rut.

And oh, yeah, they both visited a scrape that I freshen up, and the forkie actually appeared to pee in it, too.

 

[156p&y]

Yes, it is an indication of the pre-rut, but I'm just asking what, if anything, does this tell me about the local buck population. And yes, as I understand it, it is photoperiod that triggers the rut.

And oh, yeah, they both visited a scrape that I freshen up, and the forkie actually appeared to pee in it, too.

Greg I don't think you can go on the younger deer's behavior, and get an idea of whether or not there are mature deer in the area. But I will say that young deer will continue to try and show dominance until a mature animal shows up.

I've found tons of scrapes the last two days. It appears the older deer are just now making their presence known. I'd be in the woods as much as possible.

 

[BSK]

Even in a well balanced herd, yearling bucks will "pester" and chase does during the pre-rut. In fact, it's not uncommon to see yearling bucks flat-out chasing does just before the does reach estrus. The doe is not ready yet but the young buck can either see or smell that she is getting close (bucks can visually identify a doe in estrus). If you let the young buck pass, an older buck may be following slowly behind. He knows the does aren't ready yet so he doesn't waste his energy chasing them, but he follows at a distance at his own pace. Once the does really do reach estrus, the chasing order reverses itself, with the older buck dogging right on the doe and younger bucks trailing behind.

 

[Greg .]

Thanks, all.

Bryan, what about the suppression of rutting behavior in young bucks by older bucks? Is there anything to that?

 

[BSK]

Thanks, all.

Bryan, what about the suppression of rutting behavior in young bucks by older bucks? Is there anything to that?

Absolutely. In "tuned up" deer herds--those with balanced sex ratios and advanced buck age structures-- it's very common to see yearling bucks acting more like does (feeding) during the peak of the rut instead of chasing.

 

[Greg .]

Thanks.

 

[Greg .]

I'm wondering, Bryan. Is the suppression fairly evident? I mean, I understand that it's normal NOW, but if young bucks in my area continue to stay active and aggressive (over the next couple weeks), would it be reasonable to conclude that there weren't (m)any dominant older bucks around?

Thanks.

 

[BSK]

What I would look for Greg is "true" estrus chases and whether yearling bucks are the only ones involved. And by true estrus chases, I don't mean the flat-out chasing and pestering, but the very ritualistic estrus "dance" that is part of the whitetail's mating ritual. In this dance, the doe skitters ahead of the buck 10 to 20 yards, then stops and looks back to make sure the buck is still following, then as he gets close, she skitters away again. The buck will be following in a "submissive" body posturing, with head down and usually grunting softly and almost continuously.

When yearling bucks are being supressed, expect to see few if any yearling bucks involved in true estrus chases.

Before we started managing my place, the only true estrus chases we ever saw (and those were few), involved yearling bucks. Yet in the last 12 years, we haven't seen a single estrus chase being conducted by a yearling buck. If it's an estrus chase, guaranteed it will be an older buck doing the following. And now we see estrus chases nearly daily during the peak of the rut.

The problem is, so few hunters have ever seen a true estrus chase. When hunters say "bucks are chasing does" what they are usually seeing is just pestering chases, or "just prior to breeding" chases where the doe is running scared flat-out through the woods with a buck or two hot on her tail. A true estrus chase is definitely a slower, more ritualistic process, and rarely takes place faster than a trot.

 

[Greg .]

Thank you, Bryan.

Dang, I love this forum.

 

[BSK]

One other really simplistic thing to look for is, during the peak of the rut are you seeing yearling bucks feeding in food plots and overgrown fields just like they were does? You won't see mature bucks feeding around in open fields during the peak of the rut--they are are all seeking and breeding.