Yearling bucks

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woodsman87

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I am sure this has been discussed many times. But what would cause some yearling bucks to be spikes or very small 3 or 4 point racks, while other yearling bucks have nice 6-8 point "basket racks." I am not good at aging them, but I assume they are 1-1/2 bucks because they were smaller than some of the does that where with them.

Would it be that they are nutrionally deprived or genetics? Or are they just born later in the summer. Or is it just random?
 
Birth date.

Some yearling bucks were born in May of last year, and some in July or even August. This 2-3 month differences doesn't sound like much, but it really makes a HUGE difference in when they start their first set of antlers, and how large those antlers get. I photographed some yearling bucks just starting their antlers (just 1" long) in late July of this year. These bucks ended up being cow-horned spikes by the time velvet shed about a week ago. Other yearling bucks were already branch-antlered in May. They turned into 6 and 8 pointers.
 
BSK said:
Birth date.

Some yearling bucks were born in May of last year, and some in July or even August. This 2-3 month differences doesn't sound like much, but it really makes a HUGE difference in when they start their first set of antlers, and how large those antlers get. I photographed some yearling bucks just starting their antlers (just 1" long) in late July of this year. These bucks ended up being cow-horned spikes by the time velvet shed about a week ago. Other yearling bucks were already branch-antlered in May. They turned into 6 and 8 pointers.

Thanks for the response. I guess that is why we have such a wide variety of different sized yearlings, because our rut is so drawn out.
Does body size of the yearlings have to do with age too? I always "seemed" to notice that even yearling bucks were bigger than most does. It could have been that I was able to observe both of them side by side for several minutes. There was a significant size difference between the two.
 
Yearling bucks CAN weigh more than a mature doe. However, I've seen some sub-legal spike yearling bucks that aren't much bigger than a button buck!
 
good question woodsman...i've been meaning to ask the same thing. have a handful of yearlings on my place. spikes, 3-4 points and one 6 i think
 
BSK said:
Yearling bucks CAN weigh more than a mature doe. However, I've seen some sub-legal spike yearling bucks that aren't much bigger than a button buck!
I know this thread is about "yearling" bucks, but there's a place here too add a bit about "button" bucks as well. :)

While "yearling" bucks CAN weigh more than a mature doe, early born "button" bucks CAN weigh nearly as much as an average yearling 1 1/2-yr-old doe while STANDING TALLER than that adult doe! Sadly, my opinion, the early born button bucks with the most potential to be above average (wt & antlers) during their first 3 years are also the very ones most likely to be mistaken for an adult doe.

I've seen hunters pick out the tallest of 3 "antlerless" deer only to discover the 1 they killed was a button buck, while the other two were 1 1/2-yr-old does.

This is also a good place to point out the distinction between "yearlings" and "fawns", as many hunters mistakenly call a fawn a yearling. All deer under 1 year of age are "fawns". Male fawns are called "button" bucks. All deer between the age of 1 and 2 years are "yearlings", also referred to as 1 1/2 years old because the most common time of year for deer aging falls at a time when they're closer to the "1/2" than a "whole" number of years.

Most deer are born around May-June, making them about 6 months old come November-December (their first "deer season"). A year later (their 2nd "deer season") they would be 1 1/2-yr-old "yearling" deer.
 
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Hey BSK do you think it only affects only the first set of antlers or does it keep them behind somewhat each year?
 
bbuck14 said:
Hey BSK do you think it only affects only the first set of antlers or does it keep them behind somewhat each year? [/quote

I would like to know the same thing bbuck14.
 
bbuck14 said:
Hey BSK do you think it only affects only the first set of antlers or does it keep them behind somewhat each year?

ON AVERAGE, the largest antlered yearlings stay that way at least until 3 1/2. But again, that's just on average. Anything can happen with individual bucks.
 
When considering birth timing of fawns (late born fawns resulting in smaller yearling bucks in 1.5 yrs), it has a LOT to do with the condition of the does during the rut. I've seen the mature does who have lost fawns during the summer to predators seem to come into estrus a little earlier than those mature does who have had to nurse twins during the entire summer. Healthier, fatter does produce larger fawns, which often become larger adult deer. Same as with cattle or other mammals. Also does having their first fawns (1.5 yr olds at the time of their first rut), will usually have smaller fawns than fully mature does. This can also translate to smaller buck offspring than the rest in their age cohort.
 
Keep in mind that "smaller" birth weights, "smaller" antlers during the first year or two, these are commonly more related to physical condition of birth mother and timing of birth than due to anything genetic.
 
Mega and Wes make an important point. Some data exists that suggest a not only a buck's size/antler-growth early in life, but potentially for his entire lifetime, may be linked to the health of his mother, even before she became pregnant with him. Crazy stuff, and I hope more research is done on this topic.
 
I agree the Does health plays a role in how big/healthy her fawn(s) will be early on. I have saw some studies however where most fawns that were simply born late, or born to smaller (many times yearling) does, will grow out of the being below average weight and rack size, by the time they are 3 1/2. This is interesting however as if this is the case these bucks would actually be somewhat protected from the problem of High grading at 2 1/2?
 
Winchester said:
I agree the Does health plays a role in how big/healthy her fawn(s) will be early on. I have saw some studies however where most fawns that were simply born late, or born to smaller (many times yearling) does, will grow out of the being below average weight and rack size, by the time they are 3 1/2. This is interesting however as if this is the case these bucks would actually be somewhat protected from the problem of High grading at 2 1/2?

I've been wondering why some bucks that were above average 2yr olds didn't make as big of a jump as I thought they would when 3 years old but some average 2 year olds blew into 3 year old studs. Hmmmm
 
Winchester said:
I agree the Does health plays a role in how big/healthy her fawn(s) will be early on. I have saw some studies however where most fawns that were simply born late, or born to smaller (many times yearling) does, will grow out of the being below average weight and rack size, by the time they are 3 1/2. This is interesting however as if this is the case these bucks would actually be somewhat protected from the problem of High grading at 2 1/2?

Yes, those studies exist and are the standard "thought" on the issue. But one problem with those studies that has been pointed is the fact that they involve penned deer where all parent deer are fed well, hence any potential effect of parent malnourishment is removed. Of course, this was done on purpose. In any study you want to isolate a single variable to see its effect without other factors "muddying the water." But in the real world, many factors are at play.

The one study I find fascinating (although this is just ONE study and would need to be repeated in a variety of situations) was the South Dakota study using two sets of deer captured from the wild--one from the Black Hills and the other from the agricultural region of eastern SD. These populations of wild deer are noteworthy for their huge difference in body weight and antler production, with the low habitat quality of the Black Hills region producing much smaller bodied and antler deer than the agricultural region. These deer were captured just before the rut, kept isolated from each other, but fed the same high-quality foods. However, being captured just before the rut, the high-quality feed did not have a chance to influence individual deer health before breeding. Male offspring from the Black Hills population from that first breeding were tracked over their lifetime and compared to the male offspring of the agricultural deer. The Black Hills first year male offspring seriously underperformed the first-year male offspring from the agricultural region, and if a remember correctly, by a huge margin (around 30 gross inches less antler growth even at maturity).

However, the second year male offspring from these two groups--after all parent deer had experienced a full year of exceptional feed quality--displayed no difference at maturity. The male offspring from the Black Hills--after their mothers had been fed well for a year--were able to grow equal antlers at maturity to the agricultural region male offspring.

This is just one study, but it strongly suggests that a mother doe's over-all health can have a profound impact on her male offspring's antler growth potential FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE.
 
Hollar Hunter said:
Winchester said:
I agree the Does health plays a role in how big/healthy her fawn(s) will be early on. I have saw some studies however where most fawns that were simply born late, or born to smaller (many times yearling) does, will grow out of the being below average weight and rack size, by the time they are 3 1/2. This is interesting however as if this is the case these bucks would actually be somewhat protected from the problem of High grading at 2 1/2?

I've been wondering why some bucks that were above average 2yr olds didn't make as big of a jump as I thought they would when 3 years old but some average 2 year olds blew into 3 year old studs. Hmmmm

The variability of Nature. I'm sure reasons exist for each individual case, but they will be deer specific. For instance, perhaps a particular buck used valuable resources to fight off an illness, hence had less resources left over for antler growth. or perhaps a particular buck dropped lower on the social ladder. Changes in dominance status can occur quickly, and some studies suggest--for individual males--dominance status plays a role in antler growth. In essence, being subordinated has some sort of "suppressor effect" on a buck's antler growth.
 
BSK said:
In essence, being subordinated has some sort of "suppressor effect" on a buck's antler growth.
Do you believe this to be the case mainly with yearling and 2 1/2-yr-old bucks?

And, do you believe having a herd with good buck age structure (lots of mature bucks) has a STIMULATING effect on antler growth of older bucks?
 
Being subordinate, at any age, most likely has a suppressor effect. Being dominant, at any age, most likely eliminates this suppressor effect, and might even stimulate antler growth.
 
Several years ago I shot an 8 pointer...very nice rack but slightly small. He ran off and crashed. At the sound of him crashing, what looked to be a large doe ran in for a look...and froze at 60 yards looking for the source of the crash. I looked at this large doe for a good 3 minutes through optics, and could see no sign of buttons. This was a big deer. I shot it. Came up to it only to find hard polished buttons that didn't break the hairline. I dragged the two deer side by side and the large "button" was significantly larger in body than the 8 pointer. I cut their jaw bones. The eight pointer was a 2 year old. He would have been average at best for a yearling in body size, but was above average in rack for a 2 year old in my area. The button was a yearling buck. Huge in size for his age, he would have been closer to average for a 2 year old buck.

I don't know when either of the these bucks were born. I would say the 8 point was more likely to be early born, but with good genetics.

I think birth date has an impact, but also some deer naturally devote more resources to body size, whereas some devote more to antler growth. An attitude plays as much as role as either in dominance.
 
I'm not sure you can say anything positive when only looking at an individual deer (as to why he grew what he grew). All we can talk about is general trends among a local population.
 

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