Food Plots Winter wheat and crimson question?

[EastTNboy]

For those of you that plant winter wheat and crimson in your food plot do you think it will still grow well in a new plot with PH around 5.1-5.5? I'm debating between winter wheat or winter rye because of this reason. I would prefer to plant WW but have been told that rye grows slightly better in poor soils. I have a disk but plan on trying the broadcast, mow, and spray method as every time I disc I feel like I just keep bringing more weeds/rock to the surface.

My intentions are to plant 100lbs per acre of viper winter wheat with around 10lbs per acre of crimson clover on half my plot and then on the remaining two acres planting another 100lbs per acre of the viper winter wheat with 2-3lbs per acre of purple top turnips.

I'm building a house this fall so I'm wanting to stay on the cheaper side and like the idea of keeping things simple. Thoughts or advice?

 

[EastTNboy]

I will add I am planting on well drained rocky soil.

 

[tellico4x4]

New plot, low ph, throw & mow, I'd up the rate to 150#/acre.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I've always ready the same thing about rye...how it will grow better in poorer soils but I have had good luck with both rye and wheat...I do agree that uping your seed rate is the way to go....also wheat is cheaper so you can get more seed for your money...but it doesnt have to be one or the other...go 100 wheat, 50 rye and 10 crimson...diversity is a good thing.

 

[BSK]

Yes, wheat will grow in that pH. When I first break my plots, they are in the low 4s pH-wise and wheat will grow in that. Not great, but it will grow, as will Crimson. The big plus for me with rye is how tall it will grow by spring (3-4 feet), which produces a lot more biomass to mow down onto the ground for soil building. Also rye tends to have natural herbicides that reduce weed competition.

As you are able to neutralize the soil pH over time, you will notice much better growth out of the Wheat and Crimson. Both will do quite well at 5.5-6.0.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

That all will grow. One of our fields last year the rye didn't do squat, but the wheat and crimson (especially the crimson) did fantastic. I think that field had a ph of 4.8 before adding some fertilizer to it. Depending on army worms come the end of September, rye may be out of the question for us

 

[knightrider]

Ww will grow on concrete, heck it grows in the cracks of the floor of my trailer, in the gummed up oil and dirt on my four wheeler

 

[EastTNboy]

I called the feed store yesterday and they have a fall cereal mix that has oats, rye, and wheat with a recommended spread rate of 100lbs per acre. I also considered going this route as well as I've heard people swear by oats. I think it was $17 a bag so $34 per acre I believe is what they said.

 

[EastTNboy]

Ww will grow on concrete, heck it grows in the cracks of the floor of my trailer, in the gummed up oil and dirt on my four wheeler

Good to know. I've heard this about rye but wasn't sure on the wheat.

 

[EastTNboy]

Yes, wheat will grow in that pH. When I first break my plots, they are in the low 4s pH-wise and wheat will grow in that. Not great, but it will grow, as will Crimson. The big plus for me with rye is how tall it will grow by spring (3-4 feet), which produces a lot more biomass to mow down onto the ground for soil building. Also rye tends to have natural herbicides that reduce weed competition.

As you are able to neutralize the soil pH over time, you will notice much better growth out of the Wheat and Crimson. Both will do quite well at 5.5-6.0.

I do like the fact that rye is supposed to be good at suppressing weeds.

 

[EastTNboy]

I've always ready the same thing about rye...how it will grow better in poorer soils but I have had good luck with both rye and wheat...I do agree that uping your seed rate is the way to go....also wheat is cheaper so you can get more seed for your money...but it doesnt have to be one or the other...go 100 wheat, 50 rye and 10 crimson...diversity is a good thing.

I did consider doing a mix of the two for diversity.

 

[BSK]

I did consider doing a mix of the two for diversity.

Mixes are almost always better than a monoculture, simply because you never know what conditions might occur to hurt one particular species. If that particular species happens to be the one you planted in a monoculture, you're screwed.

 

[megalomaniac]

I do like the fact that rye is supposed to be good at suppressing weeds.

All cereal grains secrete allopathic exudates from their roots to suppress weeds... rye more than wheat or oats, but the cost difference between wheat and rye isn't worth it to me. (But I'm planting 22 acres... so that's roughly $450 savings going with wheat instead of rye.

I did get 12 bags of mixed fall plot seed unsold from last year at $7 a bag of 50lbs. It is about half wheat, quarter rye, and quarter oats (with clovers and brassicas added as well). Going to add 25lbs of this old preblended seed to my standard seed blend of 50lbs wheat, 3lbs Balansa, 3 lbs Crimson, 3lbs radishes, and 3lbs of purple top turnips per acre. If it doesn't germinate well due to age, no harm, no foul. Plan is to double drill the heavier used plots to almost double my seeding rate of them.

 

[BSK]

All cereal grains secrete allopathic exudates from their roots to suppress weeds... rye more than wheat or oats, but the cost difference between wheat and rye isn't worth it to me. (But I'm planting 22 acres... so that's roughly $450 savings going with wheat instead of rye.

I did get 12 bags of mixed fall plot seed unsold from last year at $7 a bag of 50lbs. It is about half wheat, quarter rye, and quarter oats (with clovers and brassicas added as well). Going to add 25lbs of this old preblended seed to my standard seed blend of 50lbs wheat, 3lbs Balansa, 3 lbs Crimson, 3lbs radishes, and 3lbs of purple top turnips per acre. If it doesn't germinate well due to age, no harm, no foul. Plan is to double drill the heavier used plots to almost double my seeding rate of them.

Are you broadcasting this or drilling?

 

[megalomaniac]

Are you broadcasting this or drilling?

Drilling

 

[BSK]

Drilling

OK, I was wondering about the low seeding rate/acre. I broadcast a ton more than that!

Just so I know for the future (when I can afford a drill that can penetrate my hard ground), do you drill first and then mow or are you drilling through the mowed duff?

And talk about green manure, I just mowed down my sorghum (which was over my head in places) and I bet I have three inches of green manure on top the ground. Growth was so thick I actually broke a shear pin on the bushhog! But hope for future soil.

 

[NChunt1]

Even with a drill I usually use 50lbs wheat 50lbs oats around 15lbs pounds of crimson and 5lbs of arrowleaf clover per acre. In plots with low pH or bad soil I will change out the outs for rye. I have had much better success exceeding the recommended seeding rates even with a drill. Msu deer lab had a good video on seeding rates and How food plotters are in most instances better exceeding the recommended rate because we aren't necessarily trying to produce the max amount of grain with our cereal crops. Also with coated crimson clover your only getting 25lbs of PLS (pure live seed) in one 50lb bag and the Germ rate most cereal grains is 80% so your really getting about 40lb PLS in a 50lb bag.

 

[megalomaniac]

OK, I was wondering about the low seeding rate/acre. I broadcast a ton more than that!

Just so I know for the future (when I can afford a drill that can penetrate my hard ground), do you drill first and then mow or are you drilling through the mowed duff?

And talk about green manure, I just mowed down my sorghum (which was over my head in places) and I bet I have three inches of green manure on top the ground. Growth was so thick I actually broke a shear pin on the bushhog! But hope for future soil.

I was hoping I could drill thru the sorgham, but tried that a few years ago and it just didn't work since the sorgham doesn't self terminate until after first hard frost.

What I've found works best for my situation is to bushhog the sorgham about 2 weeks prior to desired planting, then terminate the young regrowth with glyphosate, and drill right after spraying. I don't have any trouble getting the drill to get through the dried out bushhogged sorgham/ milo.

If you think your sorgham was TOO tall, be sure to use a dwarf grain variety next year (milo). You won't get as much biomass as sorgham/ sudan, but better than tearing up your bushhog!!!

 

[BSK]

I was hoping I could drill thru the sorgham, but tried that a few years ago and it just didn't work since the sorgham doesn't self terminate until after first hard frost.

What I've found works best for my situation is to bushhog the sorgham about 2 weeks prior to desired planting, then terminate the young regrowth with glyphosate, and drill right after spraying. I don't have any trouble getting the drill to get through the dried out bushhogged sorgham/ milo.

If you think your sorgham was TOO tall, be sure to use a dwarf grain variety next year (milo). You won't get as much biomass as sorgham/ sudan, but better than tearing up your bushhog!!!

Great info. Thanks!

Yeah, maybe milo is the answer. In my best-soil plots (oldest plots), the sorghum was way over the top of the UTV I was using to spread seed. I'm a little worried the spin broadcaster didn't throw seed very far as I was driving through a canyon of standing sorghum.

Now I'm praying for rain. As soon as we get some and the grasses jump back, I'll hit them with Clethodim. I decided against gly because I have a lot of surviving crimson clover still in the plots.

 

[megalomaniac]

The first 2 pics were from sorgham I used to use 3 or 4 years ago. 10 to 12f tall. Not as many seed heads as dwarf grain milo (last pic). And that milo was planted 5/20 or so, so it's pretty much done growing. It's about as tall as a deers head, probably 4 to 5f tall.

But if you are wanting tons of green manure/ biomass, I'd go with the regular sorgham. And BTW, the deer are actually eating the seed heads of the milo right now. I'm going to leave 1 plot until after first frost and it dies, then broadcast 100lbs wheat into it (prob late Nov) just as another experiment.

 

[BSK]

Yup, that's what mine looked like. At least 10-foot tall. The milo looks like a better idea.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

They sure are eating the Milo right now. Actually, they've consumed most all the soybeans and have moved to the corn. We don't think they'll be any corn left by fall.

 

[Bgoodman30]

The first 2 pics were from sorgham I used to use 3 or 4 years ago. 10 to 12f tall. Not as many seed heads as dwarf grain milo (last pic). And that milo was planted 5/20 or so, so it's pretty much done growing. It's about as tall as a deers head, probably 4 to 5f tall.

But if you are wanting tons of green manure/ biomass, I'd go with the regular sorgham. And BTW, the deer are actually eating the seed heads of the milo right now. I'm going to leave 1 plot until after first frost and it dies, then broadcast 100lbs wheat into it (prob late Nov) just as another experiment.

Bet the turkeys are loving that too!

 

[megalomaniac]

Bet the turkeys are loving that too!

We bushhogged plots 3d ago. Turkeys and deer both are going nuts eating the heads. Like really crazy nuts.

 

[Bgoodman30]

We bushhogged plots 3d ago. Turkeys and deer both are going nuts eating the heads. Like really crazy nuts.

Love to see it!

 

[BSK]

Turkey are loving the mowed seed heads. Deer not paying any attention to them.