Why all the justification?

[Anonymous]

I have been reading this forum for several years and finally decided to join. I love deer hunting and talking about deer hunting. It consumes a large part of my life actually. My opinions about how and what hunters should shoot has changed over the last few years. Many factors across the state such as terrain, cropland, deer numbers and a hunters ability to get in the woods all have an affect on what they decide to shoot. Good for them. To each his own.

My issue has to deal with the amount of hunters I am seeing make excuses for what they kill. I hear things like "ground shrinkage" and "disappointed" when it comes to a buck. It makes me wonder if we have gotten to a point that our excitement after the kill diminishes because we suddenly feel someone else may not be excited for us? I can't remember the last time I killed a deer, doe or buck, and I didn't get the shakes immediately following.

My question to you all is this, do you think hunters are truly disappointed when they describe the kill or are they trying to justify it to others so they won't feel like others look down on them? We hit the release or pull the trigger ourselves. We have the power to sit and give them a pass. I really think the excuses are getting old.

 

[BigGameGuy]

It's the latter in 99% of the cases. Hunters decide on their own to pull the trigger. I would attest they are happy with what they shoot. The problem is today's hunting has taken on a contest-like feel and often times they feel like they must explain themselves when they don't measure up.

 

[outdoors crazy]

^^^^THAT...you may be more than happy with it, but you can always count on hearing "it would've been a good one next year.

 

[tailchaser]

I think some really do feel bad about what they kill by thinking it was bigger and then it's smaller once shot,now if your in a club and have to pay fines I'd say they feel bad because it hurts their wallet,I do get disappointed if I shoot a deer and then see that's it's a young one,just because I don't like to kill a young deer.But some are probably like you said.

 

[arkwaterfowler]

If a hunter shoots a deer that is lower than his self imposed criteria (whatever that is) he should feel bad. Otherwise, why have criteria. I still feel bad about the button bucks I have erroneously shot in the last 10 years. It seems like there was always an extenuating circumstance but the point is if I don't feel bad, there is no motivation to change my behavior.

The answer is slow down, enjoy the hunt, and field judge the deer before you pull the trigger. If you hunt only public land, you should be proud of a young buck. If you hunt 500 acres of private land in Montgomery County you should not.

 

[Anonymous]

If a hunter shoots a deer that is lower than his self imposed criteria (whatever that is) he should feel bad. Otherwise, why have criteria. I still feel bad about the button bucks I have erroneously shot in the last 10 years. It seems like there was always an extenuating circumstance but the point is if I don't feel bad, there is no motivation to change my behavior.

The answer is slow down, enjoy the hunt, and field judge the deer before you pull the trigger. If you hunt only public land, you should be proud of a young buck. If you hunt 500 acres of private land in Montgomery County you should not.

Yeah, but does his criteria change at some point between the kill and the story about the kill? Apparently the hunter didn't care enough to pay attention to what he shot at the time. Why would he care when posting pictures of it? Disregarding button bucks, I don't think feeling bad about what you kill is a measure for a behavior change. I am always happy with what I kill and set goals beyond that kill. That doesn't mean I wouldn't kill another just like it if given the opportunity.

 

[TN Larry]

I hear what you're saying and understand that some people make a hundred excuses for shooting a deer that they are truly happy with, however, I shot two deer on back to back days this year during muzzleloader that I was disappointed in. I wrote about them in my season in review post. They just weren't the deer that I wanted. I will be honest that I didn't get excited like normal when I got to them. However, there is no one to blame but me for being impatient when pulling the trigger. It's just part of it sometimes, and life goes on. I took a little ribbing just because they were not normally what I shoot, but I don't have to justify them to anybody. My big thing was that I punched two tags early in Nov which left me with only one tag left for the rest of the season. I don't claim to be an elite trophy hunter or belittle anyone that kills a deer that excites them, but I do try to hunt for the deer that my area can produce.

 

[knightrider]

If a hunter shoots a deer that is lower than his self imposed criteria (whatever that is) he should feel bad. Otherwise, why have criteria. I still feel bad about the button bucks I have erroneously shot in the last 10 years. It seems like there was always an extenuating circumstance but the point is if I don't feel bad, there is no motivation to change my behavior.

The answer is slow down, enjoy the hunt, and field judge the deer before you pull the trigger. If you hunt only public land, you should be proud of a young buck. If you hunt 500 acres of private land in Montgomery County you should not.

the last sentence of your post is why we are seeing so much of why hunters are trying to explain themselves. because you just imposed someone shouldn't be happy of their kill even though it wasn't your tag to fill! a trophy means a lot of different thing to different people geez

 

[pass-thru]

I have had a couple cases of ground shrinkage that really put a downer on the kill. If you are working hard to enforce your own standards, then of course you will be disappointed when you make a mistake. Sometimes it's a matter of seconds under less than ideal conditions to make a decision. So naturally there will be some error unless folks are willing to pass up shots that happen quickly.

More troublesome to me are when folks are grasping at straws to justify shooting a buck before they pull the trigger, when obviously they want to kill the buck or they wouldn't be grasping for justification.

 

[BigGameGuy]

If you hunt only public land, you should be proud of a young buck. If you hunt 500 acres of private land in Montgomery County you should not.

Im sorry but I do not understand that last sentence. Isn't that the reason why people feel forced to justify their?

 

[TN Larry]

If you hunt only public land, you should be proud of a young buck. If you hunt 500 acres of private land in Montgomery County you should not.

Im sorry but I do not understand that last sentence. Isn't that the reason why people feel forced to justify their?

Agree. If it excites you, make no excuses and fire away if legal whether public or private.

 

[Mike Belt]

pass-thru hit the nail on the head. I don't care what someone else thinks about a buck I might kill. As long as I'm satisfied then you don't count, lol. Even after diligently field critiquing a bunch of bucks before finally pulling the trigger on one it's still possible to miss a brow tine or even a point or two because of foliage or any other factor...especially in a hurried situation...and again after checking several out on several different hunts. When this has happened to me I was disappointed in what I had done more so than the buck not being what I thought he was. It just makes you look harder the next time.

 

[Anonymous]

That is what I want to be discussed in this thread, Mike. What we need to do to be more successful in our personal pursuits is better to discuss than this turning into another trophy vs meat thread.

 

[Inkstainz]

As long as I'm happy, I don't care what anyone says. Personally I don't shoot 2.5 year old deer intentionally unless we get down to last week or two of season and I have no meat in freezer

 

[deerhunter10]

I have had ground shringaged before. Im still excited and very grateful. But I and many.more like me have very very strict criteria on what we shoot and what we let walk. Its very easy to miss judge a deer when its chasing a doe or something. As mike said I'm way more disappointed in myself rather then disappointed with the animal or the hunt.

 

[Bone Collector]

it is because Hunters bash others that do not ONLY shoot big bucks, to make themselves feel like they are better more evolved hunters. It happens so regularly, that the guy who shoots a 1.5 yr old feels he has to make an excuse for why he shot it.

I shoot what I Want. I also do not post pics of small bucks on the internet anymore. Too many whiners on the internet boo hooing, because "we can;t have big bucks, because you guys keep shooting small bucks" News Flash, not everyone cares about big bucks.

 

[catman529]

I agree with you. I hate when someone is obviously happy about their deer and then say "it's not the biggest but..." Seriously it is obviously not the biggest and nobody expected you to kill the biggest, and if someone did then who cares what they think. shoot what makes you happy and don't make excuses. I made no excuses for the 4pt yearling buck I got this past season, he was my first public land archery kill and I was glad to shoot him.

 

[sallee-bo]

Ya can't please everyone so ya gotta please yourself.

 

[southernhunter]

i understand both sides of the coin and i believe there two sides to every story. but i agree when people compare their deer to others or by TV standards its not good. i have killed a few that was disappointing because i made a mistake and misjudged the deer. i dont care what others say but i do care what i think and do.

 

[landman]

Well you say you've read one here for a while,
So you have seen ever excuse in the book....
Happy, Sad, should have waited, needed meat ...
but passed on does all year to finally shoot buck...
And people will still post pics...People want to be
seen

I'll be the first to say I talked about DA once for his
numbers... But now I enjoy seeing his posts and
story, but I still don't want to field dress that many
he's our True Meat Hunter King!!!

I want to Grow and Kill Mature Bucks
on my place, but that's me, I Love it when
I have clients buy land and are Proud of their 1.5 yr
old deer, many it's their first, the other side
Is clients wanting a min.140" deer, and those guys are
mainly in KY, with a couple here in TN
You'll usually find they Don't post pics

 

[Lost Lake]

It's the latter in 99% of the cases. Hunters decide on their own to pull the trigger. I would attest they are happy with what they shoot. The problem is today's hunting has taken on a contest-like feel and often times they feel like they must explain themselves when they don't measure up.

I think this pretty much sums it up. Deep down I think most hunters are happy with what they take, but they know their kills will be judged on the merits of others a lot of the time.

I think hunters also need to realize that their specific area might never produce the kind of bucks that trophy rich areas produce and they should be happy with a good representative buck for their area. Some heavily pressured public lands are difficult to take any buck on, much less anything 3.5 or older.

But trying to justify that when you know trophy hunters are watching can leave a fella acting kinda sheepish about his or her kill. Do what makes you happy and let others tend to their needs!!

 

[woodsman87]

TV hunting is ruining the sport of hunting. Its all about the horns now.

I remember when I was little if someone killed a 1.5 year old small six point it was a huge deal, and we all looked and admired the deer for hours it seems.

 

[Phil1979]

shoot what makes you happy and don't make excuses.

Agree. People should be happy with what they kill.

 

[Bowtech Man]

I own a archery shop and we also are a checking station. And getting to see,and hear all the stories that come with a harvest are very exciting to me rather a kids first or the older men that's been hunting 40yrs. My thoughts are be happy with what you harvest. If you want to shoot BIG BUCKS hunt them but don't complain when you plaster 2 legal bucks and wonder why your not killing/seeing mature bucks. Me personally I don't meat hunt , I have a 6yr old son that loves to pull the trigger. He shot 3 does this year 1 with a crossbow , and 2 with a rifle he likes to brag about how we depend on him for putting the meat in the freezer. As posted above " To each his own ".

 

[BSK]

It's the latter in 99% of the cases. Hunters decide on their own to pull the trigger. I would attest they are happy with what they shoot. The problem is today's hunting has taken on a contest-like feel and often times they feel like they must explain themselves when they don't measure up.

I think this pretty much sums it up. Deep down I think most hunters are happy with what they take, but they know their kills will be judged on the merits of others a lot of the time.

TV hunting is ruining the sport of hunting. Its all about the horns now.

All of the above. If a hunter wasn't excited, they wouldn't pull the trigger. Other hunters, who appear to love imposing their own personal standards on others (actually, all people do this, not just hunters), are the downer. And I blame TV hunting shows for how bad this problem has gotten of late.

 

[Frank G]

No matter what your endeavor would be there are always nay Sayers! I could A, you should A, you should have seen the one that got away or I saw. Yada yada yada. Best to use the �in one ear and out the other� approach with them. Or look them in the eye and ask, �How�s your season going so far� big boy?

 

[Mike Belt]

That is what I want to be discussed in this thread, Mike. What we need to do to be more successful in our personal pursuits is better to discuss than this turning into another trophy vs meat thread.

The keyword is "personal". I continue to see many pics on Tndeer of bucks I would never have dreamed of shooting...not at the beginning of season, not in the middle of season, and not at the end of the season....and it doesn't matter whether I have meat in the freezer or not. I've seen several that the hunters are making some kind of excuse as to why they shot it and some sound legitimate. However, for the most part, the only excuse one can give is because I wanted to. That's where the "personal" comes in. Most hunters go to the woods with a game plan whether it be to shoot nothing but a 125"+ buck or any buck that comes by. Some stick to their guns on that game plan. Those that don't are usually the ones that begin making excuses for the lack of size in their buck. They diminish their buck when they should really be diminishing their own hunting mindset.

There are very few incidents that I deem an "accidental" shooting. For instance I had a friend that had 3 bucks after does and they were about to run him over. They saw him and flared off into a thicket. He tried to keep his eye on the 140" buck in the group. They went behind a tree in the thicket and stopped briefly. Only the shoulders of the one he thought was the 140 were showing. Their next move was to vacate the area as fast as possible. He fired "knowing" it was him. It wasn't. That was an accident although if he'd have waited he'd have known 100% that wasn't him albeit having no shot. Point being...most bucks killed are intentional shootings and not accidents. The hunter chose to make the kill. In my opinion to regret killing a buck or to begin making excuses for killing a buck is showing a lack of respect that goes beyond just that particular deer. You can't call that bullet back. At the same time you can't call back the words you used in disdain at yourself or someone else for taking a buck...any buck. Many on this site need to learn to keep their mouths shut...or their fingers off the keyboard. Open mouth...insert foot.

I admire the bucks I shoot and the admiration of other hunters at those bucks. I admire many of the bucks I see posted here and the hunters that took them. All bucks are beautiful but the truth be known, I don't admire many of the bucks posted here. I'm happy for the hunters that took them if they're happy by doing so but they are deer I wouldn't have shot. That's just me. I also don't admonish them for doing so. I pity the hunter that does. Somewhere along the line he has lost something vital to the sport. I also pity the hunter making excuses no matter the reason.

If the question is what can we do to be more successful in "our" own personal pursuits in deer hunting then you have to begin by defining them and determining if they are attainable. If not then reassess them. If they are then stick to them. There are no goals reached by settling for in between and your goal may not necessarily be my goal so collectively, there are no "our" goals. If someone who consistently kills smaller, younger bucks specifically asks what he can do to up the anti then I could only tell them to restrain from squeezing the trigger. There is no stronger truth than a dead 1.5 year old buck does not become a 2.5 or 3.5 or 4.5 year old buck. You'll learn more by watching than shooting. If that same someone only makes excuses for what he kills or belittles others' kills then he's probably not ready to make a progressive move buck hunting.

 

[Lost Lake]

To be honest, I know some hard core trophy hunters that are the nicest and least judgemental people that I've ever met. They realize their goals aren't necessarily realistic for most people and that's okay by them.

I've met some high volume killers that kinda scare me a little too, but they're legal and happy with what they do. I've been at every place in the circle and have settled somewhere in between and pity the day that deer in general don't excite me. I LOVE it when I see someone who is tickled with what they kill.

 

[benellivol]

I killed a buck with an 18 inch inside spread two years ago. I shot him right at dusk as he came out to check a scrape. When he threw his head back, his g-2's looked to be 8 or 9 inches long.

I shot him and got the shakes. When I recovered him (he ran 20 yards or so) I was surprised that his rack wasn't very tall (right at 6 1/2 inch g-2s) but was still very excited to get my hands on a deer that wide.

 

[Winchester]

To be honest, I know some hard core trophy hunters that are the nicest and least judgemental people that I've ever met. They realize their goals aren't necessarily realistic for most people and that's okay by them.

I've met some high volume killers that kinda scare me a little too, but they're legal and happy with what they do. I've been at every place in the circle and have settled somewhere in between and pity the day that deer in general don't excite me. I LOVE it when I see someone who is tickled with what they kill.

I agree! Way too many people are now hunting to try and kill what makes their friends/acquaintances happy, instead of hunting purely for the enjoyment themselves. This is where all the justifying comes in, when people are afraid what they kill wont be accepted as big enough by some they know! Its ridiculous really, SHOOT WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY, and don't make excuses for it!!!!
Some of the happiest moments in my hunting career have been standing over some really young and small deer, especially with my boys and hunters with first kills ive helped out!!! Nothing better than seeing a truly ecstatic hunter after killing whatever it is that made them so happy!!! THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT!!!