Whitetail interbreeding

[RobbyW]

I recently put a picture of a buck that I believe is palmate. ( http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthr ... ost2853412)

I got this picture on a farm I hunt and not 2 miles away is a guy that has some fallow deer. Fallow deer have the palamte trait. While reading up on the palamted "defect" I found one cause is interbreeding of species. But then I read these two will not interbreed. Does anyone know for sure? What is the law if you come up on a exotic that is on the lam? Just rare that you see this, and then when you throw in there are fallow close by, makes you wonder.

 

[Rubberduck270]

Interesting, heck if he gets big enough and looks like a whitetail plug him. He'll look good on the wall.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

Fallow deer are "old world" deer in the genus Dama. Whitetails are much different, genetically and behaviorally. The two do not interbreed.

As for the law if you come up on an escaped exotic.......it is considered livestock, an if you kill it you can be held liable for the cost of that animal. In other words, it would be just like shooting that farmers cow. You will pay for it.

There are many reasons for antler abnormalities. The genetics of antler development are very complicated, and not well understood. Think of it
As a poker hand.....this guy just got 2 pair rather than a full house.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

BTW.....the fact that the deer in your picture has tarsal glands tells me he is a whitetail? Fallow deer do not have tarsal glands.

 

[RAFI]

its a whitetail and btw you cant shoot the fallow if you do see one because there is not a hunting season for them

 

[BSK]

I got this picture on a farm I hunt and not 2 miles away is a guy that has some fallow deer. Fallow deer have the palamte trait. While reading up on the palamted "defect" I found one cause is interbreeding of species. But then I read these two will not interbreed. Does anyone know for sure?

If you see enough bucks, eventually you will see just about any and every shape antler possible. Bucks don't need interbreeding to produce palmated antlers. In fact, they are common in some geographic regions.

Here's a palmated buck from my area that looks a lot like yours. No fallow deer around:

 

[RobbyW]

I knew it was. I was wondering if this was possible. an Elk and Red deer will breed. I didnt know if a whitetail would breed with any other species.

 

[BSK]

an Elk and Red deer will breed.

That's because red deer are basically European elk (sub-species).

I didnt know if a whitetail would breed with any other species.

They will interbreed with mule deer, but usually those cross-breeds are sterile.

 

[BSK]

Funny story: the year I got the above pictures of the palmated yearling buck, during gun season I started hearing rumors that a 16-point buck was killed by a neighbor. Finally tracking down the "lucky hunter" I started quizing him about his kill, and after hearing a description of his buck, I showed him the above pictures. Sure enough, that was the "monster 16-pointer." Turns out their are 16 places you can "hang a ring" on those little palmated antlers!

Just goes to show that local rumor and truth can be two different things.

 

[Andy S.]

Just goes to show that local rumor and truth can be two different things.

Oooooh yes it can. Furthermore, it seems it is more times than it is not.

 

[Bayou Buck]

In fact, they are common in some geographic regions.

Very common in Southeast Louisiana. Lots of 70" 12 points being killed down there

Usually when those deer get some age on them they are beautiful!

 

[BSK]

In fact, they are common in some geographic regions.

Very common in Southeast Louisiana. Lots of 70" 12 points being killed down there

Yup, that's exactly the region I was thinking of.

In the far north, palmated (flat, knife-like) beams and points are very common.

 

[Mike Belt]

There was a place off the Natchez Trace Parkway between Winona and Weir Ms. that used to produce alot of palmated antlers on bucks.

 

[nate17]

Yours looks like nothing but palmation to me, but ive spent a signigicant amount of time around a free ranging herd of fallow deer and theres not a single person that could convince me that 'interbreeding' doesnt happen. Ive seen too many odd whitetails in the local vicinity of this herd to believe otherwise.

 

[Andy S.]

.........that 'interbreeding' doesnt happen.

Interbreeding between whitetails and fallow deer cannot result in hybrid offspring, it is biologically impossible. Two completely different species.

 

[nate17]

.........that 'interbreeding' doesnt happen.

Interbreeding between whitetails and fallow deer cannot result in hybrid offspring, it is biologically impossible. Two completely different species.

Ur entitled to ur opinion and im entitled to mine.


U wanna question whether it can happen or not ill be glad to show u around and u can spend 3 yrs urself asking the same question i did.

 

[Andy S.]

Ur entitled to ur opinion and im entitled to mine.

My reply was not an opinion. I have read a few articles, websites and blogs from biologists and deer breeders who are in the know, unlike you and I, about the possibility of whitetails and fallow deer interbreeding. They all agree it is not biologically possible. I'll put my trust in the experts, not what someone thinks they see in the wilderness.

U wanna question whether it can happen or not ill be glad to show u around and u can spend 3 yrs urself asking the same question i did.

I'd rather someone show me hard factual proof, like DNA testing to proof their suspicions.

The consensus from what I have learned is this: "Fallow Deer (Cervus dama) are of the Cervus genus. White-tail Deer (Odocoileus virginianus) are of the Odocoileus genus. Both are from the Cervidae family, but the different genus makes egg fertilization impossible." Thus if interbreeding did take place, a viable offspring could not result.

A few links that you may find interesting:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthr ... 07&fpart=3

http://vafallowdeer.blogspot.com/p/chro ... ginia.html

http://wkcurrent.com/boutique-game-animals-p551-72.htm

http://www.deer-forums.com/discus/messa ... 1237603419

http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/DeerTax ... 31FF7.html

 

[nate17]

Ur entitled to ur opinion and im entitled to mine.

My reply was not an opinion. I have read a few articles, websites and blogs from biologists and deer breeders who are in the know, unlike you and I, about the possibility of whitetails and fallow deer interbreeding. They all agree it is not biologically possible. I'll put my trust in the experts, not what someone thinks they see in the wilderness.

U wanna question whether it can happen or not ill be glad to show u around and u can spend 3 yrs urself asking the same question i did.

I'd rather someone show me hard factual proof, like DNA testing to proof their suspicions.

The consensus from what I have learned is this: "Fallow Deer (Cervus dama) are of the Cervus genus. White-tail Deer (Odocoileus virginianus) are of the Odocoileus genus. Both are from the Cervidae family, but the different genus makes egg fertilization impossible." Thus if interbreeding did take place, a viable offspring could not result.

A few links that you may find interesting:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthr ... 07&fpart=3

http://vafallowdeer.blogspot.com/p/chro ... ginia.html

http://wkcurrent.com/boutique-game-animals-p551-72.htm

http://www.deer-forums.com/discus/messa ... 1237603419

http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/DeerTax ... 31FF7.html

Im well aware of the facts. I have a degree in wildlife biology and have worked in the wildlife field since ive been out of school.

I have also spent time around a free ranging fallow deer herd and know that there are some wierd looking whitetails in this area. We can argue about what the book says for days and no I have never actually seen a whitetail mount a fallow deer.

Like I said, you want to make the drive up, ill be glad to show you around. We'll go out and hunt a couple of my stands. Ill even buy ur supper. Have a good one.

 

[Andy S.]

Gotcha Nate. What part of the state are you in? I doubt I can make it up for a hunt, but I am wondering where this said activity is taking place at.

 

[monique06]

I would like to have his head on my collection wall.