Well we shot my brothesrs tc triumph yesterday got it almost were he wanted it moved it 2 clicks up and it started shooting allover the place. We figured scope went bad (baraska). So we put a brand new vortex crossfire 2 on it today. Cant get better thend a 10inch group at 50yds with 2 different bullets. Powder is a couple years old could that be it??. Any help appreciated.
whats going on here?
- Thread starter wayers
- Start date
SKFOOTER
Well-Known Member
If its not Blackhorn 209 powder that is definitely the problem. :bash:
TennesseeJed
Well-Known Member
What kind of load were you shooting and were you shooting offhand or off a bench? Were you cleaning after each shot?
If the rifle was shooting good before you adjusted the scope, I don't think it would be the powder.
If the rifle was shooting good before you adjusted the scope, I don't think it would be the powder.
Im having the same problem. Shooting all over the place. Put a new scope on it, checked mounts/rings, cleaning every third shot, 100 gr triple 7. I had to buy some different ammo this year (hornady 195gr sabots) because they quit making what i used to shoot. Im going to buy some different ammo tmrw when im in Nashville. Dang muzzleloaders are more hassle than any weapon ever in history of hunting.
wayers":32w1mruq said:
Swabbing every 3 shots with mag primers and any kind of Triple7 is probably preventing you from fully seating the projectile on the pellets or powder. You are hitting the dreaded crud ring T7 creates not the powder column.
Solution:
Try swabbing every shot with a mix of 50/50 Windex and 91% rubbing alcohol. The patches only need to be damp, not soaking wet. Make them up at home and store them in an air tight container for range or field use. Auto windshield washer solvent and fuel line de-icer (HEAT) mixed 50/50 work in a pinch too. Its also more resistant to freezing.
Advice:
Try using either a standard strength primer such as a Win209 or a reduced power 209 like the WinT7 or Rem Kleanbore primer. The reduced power primer might lessen the crud ring. Mag primers increase crud ring and simply are not needed with Triple7. Its easy to ignite with a 209 primer.
Not sure which type of oil you are using for storage but....Avoid Bore Butter and oils that contain Teflon. Try synthetics like Montana Xtreme Bore conditioner instead. Ive seen a crud ring improvement when using the MX products for storage. RemOil with Teflon and Triple7 gave me horrible crud rings.
Regardless of storage oil used, swab your bore before firing with a alcohol patch. Fire ONLY a primer once or twice before loading. This will put a minimal amount of fouling in the bore and it insures the breach plug is clear of oils or solvents.
Lastly, switch to loose powder. Its far easier to tailor your load to what the rifle prefers.
Planking":2tqhoztz said:
Never heard of a Hornady 195gr ML offering. Got a link? Barnes makes a 40cal 195gr for 45cal rifles.
Which sabot and bullet were you using? Im pretty good at finding things.
What rifle?
Sorry, Hornady 200 gr SST .45 cal. I can't remember what the old ones were called but i know they were from cabela's and they had a blue tip, 150 gr (i think) .45 cal. I had it shooting good out to 150 but i can't hit a paper plate at 30 right now. Rifle is a new frontier beartooth magnum 1:28 twist. I read powerbelts work in them sometimes so going to try those, but certainly welcome and appreciate any advice anyone can give. Im also going to check closely for a crud ring. (that may be my problem) and buy some blackhorn.GMB54":2iv72lmi said:
Cabelas used to sell the Precision Rifle QT bullets with a blue tip but they were all lead. The lightest one was 180gr. They are still offered by Precision Rifle and their outlet in the USA.
Did they look like these?
You can buy them here https://www.prbullet.com/shop/products. ... tegoryID=2
And here http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/QT- ... s/1852.htm
IIRC the Bear Tooth Magnum is made by BPI and is very very similar to the CVA Wolf. The older Wolfs and BPI products are not ideal for using BH209 powder. The breach plug is not upto par. It can be modified however by increasing the flash channel to 1/8"-5/32" and adding a vent liner like what is used in the Savage. I know someone that mods the plugs for about $25 shipped. I used them in an older Accura 45 and BH209 ignition was flawless.
Unless you want to modify the plug, you are better off using Triple7 loose powder. Real Swiss BP would also be an excellent choice if you can find it. Swiss is super consistent, ultra reliable and nearly as fast as Triple7 loose powder without a crud ring.
The 200gr SSTs you tried use the exact same sabot as the PR QT bullets. They are called MMP Tan 45x40. If they are really tight, Harvester makes a light blue 45x40 sabot that loads easier. I can only assume your issue is not the sabot, its the bullet. The 200gr SST is likely longer and needs more speed to shoot as well as the shorter PR bullets.
A cheap bullet option is try the 40cal 180gr or 200gr XTP instead of the SST. Its a little shorter and quite often more accurate. While not the ideal bullet for a 45cal ML, they don't do too bad at slower speeds. Just keep shots in the vitals (broadside) and avoid high shoulders or hard quartering shots. Cabelas usually sells both in the reloading section without sabots.
I don't like Powerbelts BUT the 45cal 300gr Platinum shoots fantastic for me in a 1-28 or 1-30 with around 80-90gr of loose powder. They should perform fairly well as long as you don't push them too fast. This year im shooting a cheap 350gr lead HP conical that performs just as well at a tiny fraction of the cost of a PB Plat. If you know a local caster the bullet is called the 330gr Gould HP bullet. Its a 458 but they are easily sized to .451 or .452 when cast in pure lead for ML use.
Did they look like these?
You can buy them here https://www.prbullet.com/shop/products. ... tegoryID=2
And here http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/QT- ... s/1852.htm
IIRC the Bear Tooth Magnum is made by BPI and is very very similar to the CVA Wolf. The older Wolfs and BPI products are not ideal for using BH209 powder. The breach plug is not upto par. It can be modified however by increasing the flash channel to 1/8"-5/32" and adding a vent liner like what is used in the Savage. I know someone that mods the plugs for about $25 shipped. I used them in an older Accura 45 and BH209 ignition was flawless.
Unless you want to modify the plug, you are better off using Triple7 loose powder. Real Swiss BP would also be an excellent choice if you can find it. Swiss is super consistent, ultra reliable and nearly as fast as Triple7 loose powder without a crud ring.
The 200gr SSTs you tried use the exact same sabot as the PR QT bullets. They are called MMP Tan 45x40. If they are really tight, Harvester makes a light blue 45x40 sabot that loads easier. I can only assume your issue is not the sabot, its the bullet. The 200gr SST is likely longer and needs more speed to shoot as well as the shorter PR bullets.
A cheap bullet option is try the 40cal 180gr or 200gr XTP instead of the SST. Its a little shorter and quite often more accurate. While not the ideal bullet for a 45cal ML, they don't do too bad at slower speeds. Just keep shots in the vitals (broadside) and avoid high shoulders or hard quartering shots. Cabelas usually sells both in the reloading section without sabots.
I don't like Powerbelts BUT the 45cal 300gr Platinum shoots fantastic for me in a 1-28 or 1-30 with around 80-90gr of loose powder. They should perform fairly well as long as you don't push them too fast. This year im shooting a cheap 350gr lead HP conical that performs just as well at a tiny fraction of the cost of a PB Plat. If you know a local caster the bullet is called the 330gr Gould HP bullet. Its a 458 but they are easily sized to .451 or .452 when cast in pure lead for ML use.
That's the bullets. I knew they were lighter than the ones i had to go with but i was only guessing at the exact weight. Your speculation about the sabot is correct, no problems there. I will go with the triple 7 powder and order those bullets. Also i just took the plug out and noticed a residue ring where the bullet and powder seat. Im working on that next. Thank you so much for all you guys expert help. Didn't mean to hijack i just needed some help too.
SKFOOTER
Well-Known Member
If you were using Blackhorn 209 powder your breech plug wouldn't have that crud ring buildup. :bash:Planking":37u68jny said:
In a double pinch, which is where I usually am most of the time. I will chew up a patch in my mouth to get it damp, and swab between each shot. This seems to keep me fairly consistent using loose pyrodex.
iowavf
Well-Known Member
Make a mark on your push rod after seating a load in a clean barrel to make sure it's always seating the bullet the same if not using blackhorn. You can push by the crud ring but it's a hard push. I was able to shoot 5 or 6 times before cleaning when I used 777.
SKFOOTER":2doivgg2 said:
It slices, it dices, it chops, cuts, purees, sautees, grills, broils, bakes, fricasees, wont flirt with your wife or bite your neighbors dog!
:party:
Seriously though, I do love the 777 and do do both my MZs but it's definitely the crud ring giving you problems.
Until I realized that,I had the exact issue.
Swab lightly every shot at the range, now groups are under an inch at 100.
sgtwebb1":28kylunr said:
:rotf:
iowavf
Well-Known Member
You said swabbing every 3rd shot? My encore was about 10" high and 4" to the right if I remember with a clean barrel versus a dirty barrel when I was using 777. I had it sighted in with a dirty barrel so I could shoot several times without needing to run patches down the barrel while hunting. 1st shot was bad, but after that as long as I got it seated the same, I had pretty tight groups for the next 4 or 5 shots before needing to clean.wayers":22sswr8f said:
