Weak Antlers

[CBU93]

So this year, I have spent more time and effort really playing with trail cams. For me, cell cams have changed my thinking and challenges a number of perceptions I have held for years on my own property. One is buck age structure. I have several more bucks utilizing my property that are a year or more older than I have perceived for years. That is unless this year, with bumper acorn crop all around me (I have few fruit producing oaks within my property lines), is an anomaly.

Second the number of individual deer, specifically bucks utilizing this small property. That has been a pleasant surprise. Particularly th y number of younger bucks.

Lastly, and the reason for this post, is the obvious lack of quality antler growth…typically, very skinny, lack of mass, and or some short tines…most, even spikes, have a strong side and a weak side…this is noticeable at each age group observed. I never really paid much attention to these discussions in the past but by observation, this appears to be a real phenomenon…they can't all have injured pedicles, so is there anything as a manager I can do to possibly mitigate? I doubt it as most bucks spend spring and summer off property during antler growing season.

 

[tellico4x4]

We were discussing the "lack of mass" this year yesterday. Suspect it has a lot to do with droughts and acorn failure 2023 & 2024. Tons of acorns & great plots this year so will be watching to see if mass increases next year

 

[Ski]

Pedicle damage can be pretty prevalent on some properties. I've got one I hunt and monitor that it's rare to see a clean, symmetrical rack. There are lots of variables.

 

[Stalkhunter]

On the properties I hunt have never gotten great symmetrical rack we get mainly odd number points. Some times so 8 points the 8 pt I shot had fun my rack it was many years back. The last 2 have been the best ones close to a typical rack.

 

[megalomaniac]

Mass...

Determined by Age, Genetics, and Nutrition...

IF you truly have mature bucks with no mass, then age is NOT your problem.

Genetics are NOT your problem (if all mature bucks have no mass... there is enough genetic diversity in wild deer for at least some of them to produce heavier mass)

Guess what... that leaves nutrition (or lack thereof). Planting a fall food plot wont do diddly squat for making real world changes to nutrition.... it takes an overabundance of food YEAR ROUND ... FOR 5 YEARS!!!! to actually make a true difference.

Sorry to break your heart. The amount of time and money it takes to provide year round forage and habitat improvements is downright scary

 

[CBU93]

Mass...

Determined by Age, Genetics, and Nutrition...

IF you truly have mature bucks with no mass, then age is NOT your problem.

Genetics are NOT your problem (if all mature bucks have no mass... there is enough genetic diversity in wild deer for at least some of them to produce heavier mass)

Guess what... that leaves nutrition (or lack thereof). Planting a fall food plot wont do diddly squat for making real world changes to nutrition.... it takes an overabundance of food YEAR ROUND ... FOR 5 YEARS!!!! to actually make a true difference.

Sorry to break your heart. The amount of time and money it takes to provide year round forage and habitat improvements is downright scary

Oh it don't break my heart at all. Mass or no mass I don't have the means or desire to work that hard at it. I might at some point try it when I retire and need something to do and spend money on, but right now got more important life by priorities…

Really wondering more around how one side has a decent frame, the other is so weak in comparison. I suspect it is nutrition related as well…I am just more in tune with it this year than ever before. Really goes back to to another thread posted earlier this week in Knowing Your Limitations.

 

[BSK]

Even if the problem is genetic (and I doubt it is), there is no way to manipulate the genetics of a free-ranging deer population.

 

[Ski]

You can put a whole lot of food on the ground immediately with a chainsaw and then the new flush of sunshine will keep food at deer level for several years to come. Cheap and only takes a day or two.

I don't believe what you're describing is necessarily nutrition or genetics related. Do you have some example pics?

 

[BSK]

Second the number of individual deer, specifically bucks utilizing this small property. That has been a pleasant surprise. Particularly th y number of younger bucks.

This is a concept I have a hard time explaining to hunter/manages. Even on a small property, many, many more bucks will utilize the property than what local deer density or carrying capacity estimates would allow. Bucks can have big ranges. The rut probably doubles those range sizes for a brief period (5-6 weeks). Now not all of those bucks will be on the property in a given day, but they DO cross that property often enough to make them huntable and manageable.

This effect is dulled a bit if the habitat is the same for miles surrounding the property, but in circumstances where timber land is near agricultural land, all sorts of unique situations can develop (and by improved through management of the small property's habitat).

I used to say that trying to manage properties of a 100 acres or less is an effort in futility. Bu with the number of hunters passing up young bucks, I no longer feel that way. I'm seeing amazing things done on small properties these days.

But to address your point about the number of unique bucks, especially yearlings, you pick up on cam, we see the same. Now my property is a bit unique in that it is a 3/4 of a square mile section of a 2 square mile "island" of ridge-and-hollow hardwoods surrounded on three side by major river-bottom ag fields. But as an extreme example of how many different bucks can visit a property, we should have somewhere around 25-30 deer on the property (based on accurate average deer density numbers for the area). Yet in 2023, a bumper acorn year, once the surrounding crops were harvested, a shocking number of deer crossed the property at some point during our fall photo census. From August 1 to mid-January, we picked up a record 46 unique yearling bucks on cam. That's a truly shocking number! Throw in the 24 older age (2 1/2+) bucks we caught on cam, and that's 70 different bucks using a 500-acre property! Once again, not all of those bucks are using the property at the same time. In fact, far from it. When I break the data down by month, our peak month was October, with 46 unique bucks photographed. If I break the data down into two-week sections, the last 14 days of October comes out on top at 38 unique bucks. I can take it down to the top day, and October 16 and November 1 came out on top with 16 unique bucks photographed on both of those dates.

Now the harvest practices of neighbors have a major impact on the management of small properties, but small-property owners will have far more bucks to work with than they think.

 

[CBU93]

From a nutritional standpoint, once again the bucks do not spend spring or summer on this parcel (under 100 acres) historically. For the last 15 years or so, the majority of this land was open pasture with too many cows on it…

This year I planted pines on the majority of it (which failed this year and 99% of my seedlings died). This did two things 1) far less human intrusion throughout the year 2) provided some additional cover in areas through out from weed growth.

Any additional browse although not noticeable to me may have been present as well. The lack of intrusion showed itself more with turkey flock being visible throughout the year.

Will have to replant my trees at some point…

 

[MCO8891]

This is a concept I have a hard time explaining to hunter/manages. Even on a small property, many, many more bucks will utilize the property than what local deer density or carrying capacity estimates would allow. Bucks can have big ranges. The rut probably doubles those range sizes for a brief period (5-6 weeks). Now not all of those bucks will be on the property in a given day, but they DO cross that property often enough to make them huntable and manageable.

This effect is dulled a bit if the habitat is the same for miles surrounding the property, but in circumstances where timber land is near agricultural land, all sorts of unique situations can develop (and by improved through management of the small property's habitat).

I used to say that trying to manage properties of a 100 acres or less is an effort in futility. Bu with the number of hunters passing up young bucks, I no longer feel that way. I'm seeing amazing things done on small properties these days.

But to address your point about the number of unique bucks, especially yearlings, you pick up on cam, we see the same. Now my property is a bit unique in that it is a 3/4 of a square mile section of a 2 square mile "island" of ridge-and-hollow hardwoods surrounded on three side by major river-bottom ag fields. But as an extreme example of how many different bucks can visit a property, we should have somewhere around 25-30 deer on the property (based on accurate average deer density numbers for the area). Yet in 2023, a bumper acorn year, once the surrounding crops were harvested, a shocking number of deer crossed the property at some point during our fall photo census. From August 1 to mid-January, we picked up a record 46 unique yearling bucks on cam. That's a truly shocking number! Throw in the 24 older age (2 1/2+) bucks we caught on cam, and that's 70 different bucks using a 500-acre property! Once again, not all of those bucks are using the property at the same time. In fact, far from it. When I break the data down by month, our peak month was October, with 46 unique bucks photographed. If I break the data down into two-week sections, the last 14 days of October comes out on top at 38 unique bucks. I can take it down to the top day, and October 16 and November 1 came out on top with 16 unique bucks photographed on both of those dates.

Now the harvest practices of neighbors have a major impact on the management of small properties, but small-property owners will have far more bucks to work with than they think.

To add to this. My family owns 112 acres of hardwoods/clear cuts. Its part of miles of the same terrain. We have never run cameras during the season until this year. We only set up 3 cameras on the front side of the property. I wasn't expecting much but was amazed at the number of bucks we got on camera in the first 2-3 weeks of putting them up. We had 10-12 different bucks on camera. And again our cameras were only on the front half of the property over small "food plots". Deer density is low on this property but it has a great buck to doe ratio to the point its almost surprising to see a doe.

 

[CBU93]

I don't believe what you're describing is necessarily nutrition or genetics related. Do you have some example pics?

Tank of a deer with one side even though he is puffed up in the cold you can see he is

 

[CBU93]

This deer is older with decent frame, not enough mass IMO

 

[Ski]

First pic is absolutely damage, not genetics or nutrition. Second pic looks pretty normal for a TN 3.5yr old. He might be 4.5 but even still he's representative of much of TN for his age class. I don't see anything to be alarmed about.

 

[CBU93]

First pic is absolutely damage, not genetics or nutrition. Second pic looks pretty normal for a TN 3.5yr old. He might be 4.5 but even still he's representative of much of TN for his age class. I don't see anything to be alarmed about.

I was pleasantly surprised with the second, just expect more mass as my past hunting is in more agricultural surroundings with different nutrition.

First pic, I could buy if he was the only one in this property…but I have pics somewhere in my files this year of two more similar but younger deer…with alternating sides of strength and weakness.

 

[Ski]

I was pleasantly surprised with the second, just expect more mass as my past hunting is in more agricultural surroundings with different nutrition.

First pic, I could buy if he was the only one in this property…but I have pics somewhere in my files this year of two more similar but younger deer…with alternating sides of strength and weakness.

You should see my pics. One property in particular is in a gum swamp surrounded by ag. It's expected that there will be funky rack bucks. Getting a clean, symmetrical, nice frame buck is actually a rarity there. They beat each other to pulp. Often I even see fork horns and spikes with an entire side broken off, and if that break is at skull level then that buck never grows a normal rack his entire life. It happens a lot.

 

[BSK]

I was pleasantly surprised with the second, just expect more mass as my past hunting is in more agricultural surroundings with different nutrition.

First pic, I could buy if he was the only one in this property…but I have pics somewhere in my files this year of two more similar but younger deer…with alternating sides of strength and weakness.

As I see the buck age structure getting older and older across TN, I'm seeing more and more busted up racks by the end of the rut. It is becoming commonplace when it used to be somewhat rare.

I've seen a lot of crazy stuff when it comes to beam mass. I've seen 4 1/2 year-old bucks from the same property range in basal circumference from 3" to 6".