I saw one of the members from my lease saturday and he said "there has not been any good bucks killed off of our lease in years". The 6 little bucks me and my grandson killed this year were the biggest we ever see. I told him there were three 10 points killed that scored over 130 and the look on his face was priceless. I told him noone tells him because they dont want him too shoot all the small ones. One of the funniest moments i have had in a while.
Very Funny
- Thread starter muddyboots
- Start date
CopperHead77
Well-Known Member
I've heard people say that kind of thing before,I just smile and say uh huh. lol
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
Ever thought about any age or AR rules?
Football Hunter said:
Are you kidding. Some of the older guys think that would be downright antichrist. Its hard too find members every year and some of the guys have been in the lease for years. lol
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
Oh well,just a thought
Wow. that interesting.
You have 2 spike shooting meat hunters on a lease killing small bucks Yet, The other lease members still killed 3 bucks scoring over 130".
Interesting..... Very Interesting..... From all the buck limit posts, That simply should not be possible! :D
You have 2 spike shooting meat hunters on a lease killing small bucks Yet, The other lease members still killed 3 bucks scoring over 130".
Interesting..... Very Interesting..... From all the buck limit posts, That simply should not be possible! :D
But, but but....
They are NOT passing ALL little bucks. So how could anyone kill not just a mature deer, but 3 Well above average mature deer from that lease in ONE year?
Since the average mature deer in TN will only sport 105-130" depending on where you are talking about, 3 130" deer are WAY above average. How many "inferior" mature bucks got passed because they were "only" a scraggly 110" 7 or 8pt?
My point is that here is a perfect example of how our current buck limits are producing excellent results. Even with 2 scrub shooting meat hunters on the lease, they are killing above average quality mature bucks. AND they are killing above average numbers of them.
They are NOT passing ALL little bucks. So how could anyone kill not just a mature deer, but 3 Well above average mature deer from that lease in ONE year?
Since the average mature deer in TN will only sport 105-130" depending on where you are talking about, 3 130" deer are WAY above average. How many "inferior" mature bucks got passed because they were "only" a scraggly 110" 7 or 8pt?
My point is that here is a perfect example of how our current buck limits are producing excellent results. Even with 2 scrub shooting meat hunters on the lease, they are killing above average quality mature bucks. AND they are killing above average numbers of them.
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
Yeah and a kid that never practices hiting could go to a base ball game and hit 2 home runs.Would you then tell all kids that not practicing leads to better hitting.Anything CAN happen,but shooting less small bucks will lead to killing/seeing more big bucks.Dont really see how you can argue with that.fishboy1 said:
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
RKenney said:
Short & Sweet...nice!
FH,
That follows logic. BUT
How many more big bucks will be seen?
Lets break it down into math.
2 Scrub shooters killed 6 bucks.
??? Trophy guys killed 3.
Obviously the scrub shooters got some kind of pleasure/value out of those 6 bucks.
Obviously the trophy guys got some pleasure/value out of the 3 bucks.
What is a fair exchange rate for passing up bucks?
If the scrub shooters passed all 6 bucks, what is a reasonable "payback" to expect in terms of trophy bucks for them to shoot?
Pass 6 scrubs shoot 1 mature buck? Pass 6 scrubs shoot 2 mature bucks?
Pass 6 scrubs shoot no mature bucks for 2 years? 3 years? 5 years?
Since they are shooting 6 scrubs, it is obvious that they don't have the hunting skills or desire to do what it takes to kill a mature buck.
SO.... Should they pass all those "scrubs" with no reasonable expectation that they will magically become skilled mature buck hunters? What is their payoff?
They are legal licensed hunters who enjoy hunting and killing deer. Why should their desires and legal kills be somehow inferior to the group of guys who killed the 130" bucks?
Perhaps they are getting MORE value, enjoyment and benefit from their hunting than the Trophy guys.
What if you go crappie fishing and are only satisfied if you set a new state record? What about all those sweet slabs you caught but threw back because they were inferior? Can you only be happy if you set a state record? Are the slabs magically not any fun to catch or good to eat?
That follows logic. BUT
How many more big bucks will be seen?
Lets break it down into math.
2 Scrub shooters killed 6 bucks.
??? Trophy guys killed 3.
Obviously the scrub shooters got some kind of pleasure/value out of those 6 bucks.
Obviously the trophy guys got some pleasure/value out of the 3 bucks.
What is a fair exchange rate for passing up bucks?
If the scrub shooters passed all 6 bucks, what is a reasonable "payback" to expect in terms of trophy bucks for them to shoot?
Pass 6 scrubs shoot 1 mature buck? Pass 6 scrubs shoot 2 mature bucks?
Pass 6 scrubs shoot no mature bucks for 2 years? 3 years? 5 years?
Since they are shooting 6 scrubs, it is obvious that they don't have the hunting skills or desire to do what it takes to kill a mature buck.
SO.... Should they pass all those "scrubs" with no reasonable expectation that they will magically become skilled mature buck hunters? What is their payoff?
They are legal licensed hunters who enjoy hunting and killing deer. Why should their desires and legal kills be somehow inferior to the group of guys who killed the 130" bucks?
Perhaps they are getting MORE value, enjoyment and benefit from their hunting than the Trophy guys.
What if you go crappie fishing and are only satisfied if you set a new state record? What about all those sweet slabs you caught but threw back because they were inferior? Can you only be happy if you set a state record? Are the slabs magically not any fun to catch or good to eat?
8 POINTS OR BETTER
Well-Known Member
fishboy1 said:
Fishboy1,
If you go crappie fishing in TN don't you have to let the small ones go? Just something to think about, why do you have to throw the little ones back?
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
fishboy1,I dont know the rate of return,would be intertesting to hear BSKs take.I guess my point is,on a leases,seems like someone is in charge and can make the rukes,and if the rules dont suit you then go somewhere else.Maybe they do get more enjoyment out of killing scrubs,thats fine,but they will tell you they want to kill a big one if they are honest.
8 POINTS OR BETTER said:
You cannot keep an illegal fish. You cannot shoot an illegal deer. A deer is not a crappie so they are managed differently.
What most of the trophy guys on here are asking for is to make it illegal for most of TN hunters to have the Opportunity or Choice to kill a certain size/age buck. My question is this.
What do the majority of TN hunters get back in return?
Herd health across the state is "good to excellent". So the herd health argument( as a whole ) isn't really relevant. (except in pockets)
Remember, The majority of "mature buck" hunters do not score regularly. Those that do are SERIOUS hunters who are dedicated and very skilled. The numbers of them are very very low. Mature bucks are extremely hard to see and kill legally.
A strict one buck limit or AR's will only result in a small increase in the harvestable number of "mature" deer. OF that number, an even smaller % will have above average horns.
Now couple that with the amount of time and dedication plus skill it takes to see and kill mature deer, and what the trophy guys are advocating is to effectively shut down the "regular hunter" in favor of the very small minority trophy hunters.
How many hunters would be happy with having the vast majority of the harvestable bucks made off limits?
The rest of the story. There are 10 members on my lease. 2 that shoot anything and the rest who look for mature deer. The other 8 members probably pass between 20 and 30 bucks each a year. Some of them are the same bucks but the point is we pass alot of bucks. The 2 shoot anything hunters hunt the same 2 shooting houses evertime they go and they shoot the first that walks by them that is legal. Anyhting wrong with that? No if that is what they wish to do but its funny when thay complain about no big bucks get killed.
Our Kill breakdowns by members of bucks
Member #1 - 10 point and two 8 points
Member #2 - 10 point and one 8 point
Member #3 - 9 point
Member #4 - 10 point
Member #5 - 7 point with broken tines
member #6 - 8 point
member #7 - son killed 10 point
member #8 - hunted very little
Member #9 - spike and a 4 point and a 7 point
Member #10 - 2 spikes and a 6 point
The last two members are the horn hunters. The point is passing bucks works whether it is by law or by choice. If member #9 and # 10 would have passed some of those smaller bucks i am confident they could have killed bigger and more mature deer and left the smaller ones to grow.
Our Kill breakdowns by members of bucks
Member #1 - 10 point and two 8 points
Member #2 - 10 point and one 8 point
Member #3 - 9 point
Member #4 - 10 point
Member #5 - 7 point with broken tines
member #6 - 8 point
member #7 - son killed 10 point
member #8 - hunted very little
Member #9 - spike and a 4 point and a 7 point
Member #10 - 2 spikes and a 6 point
The last two members are the horn hunters. The point is passing bucks works whether it is by law or by choice. If member #9 and # 10 would have passed some of those smaller bucks i am confident they could have killed bigger and more mature deer and left the smaller ones to grow.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
muddyboots said:
How many acres is yalls lease muddyboots?
That is VERY good info btw! Thanks
We have 900 acres of mostly differnt stages of pines. Hardwoods left in all the hollows and food plots wherever we could clear out spots.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
muddyboots said:
Ok cool. Sounds like yall have quite a few bucks runnin around yalls area for that size of property. I wish we had some pines like that. There are a bunch of pines that border us, and thats where the deer stay! The edges are where we have the most luck.
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
good infomuddyboots said:
Wow. Thanks for making my point muddy.
Even with 20% of your hunters shooting the first 3 legal bucks they see you are having excellent success on larger deer.
Do you age the deer and score the racks?
What methods do you use to age the deer?
Even with 20% of your hunters shooting the first 3 legal bucks they see you are having excellent success on larger deer.
Do you age the deer and score the racks?
What methods do you use to age the deer?
We dont officially age them as none of us have been trained in that. We can tell by body size if they are old enough. We try to shoot 3 1/2 and older but some 2 1/2 get shot. This about the tenth season we have been passing bucks and the last few have been the first ones we could tell we were doing any good.
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
glad you are seeing some good resultsmuddyboots said:
