I have now had 3 commissioners respond and one I know sent me a text for a total of 4
TWF Public input needed on blind draws.
- Thread starter Bgoodman30
- Start date
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
I can tell you the TWF is waste of time. I sent an email, but they will do nothing. If any funds from licenses or taxes go to them, it should be stopped and the TWF should be closed down. They do nothing for hunters and fishermen. NOTHING.
Laughable.
That took all of a minute to see they organized a group to try and help The Caney Fork
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
I guess this was in response to me. My experience with the TWF is they are as bad or worse than politicians. The TWF acts like they are there for the hunters and fishermen, they will tell you what they will do to help the hunters and fishermen and then do the EXACT opposite. Sad and sorry. No communication and the TWF absolutely did ZERO with the greenway put on the WMA in La Vergne. The TWF personally told me all they were going to do and how if land was lost to hunting, it would be replaced. They not only did none of that, they BLOCKED 99 percent of the access to Hurricane Creek with a guard rail on Stones River Rd, blocked access for hunters and fishermen, and no land was added for the area that was lost, that was a great for hunting. The TWF never communicated any of that to me or anyone else.
I stand by what I said. TWF should be disbanded and defunded and replaced with a group that helps and isn't a bunch of crooks who lie. I will tell Michael Butler to his face (I recently sent a message to him through one of his employees, don't know if he got it) and if he can prove me wrong I will apologize, but go look for yourself. The guard rail is a joke and did not even close to doing what it is supposed to do. 4 wheelers still wear the WMA out and the guard rail was never mentioned to anyone who wanted to keep from losing any hunting land. ZERO communication. NOT one thing they said was going to be done was done and from a couple of friends I had in the city government at the time, nothing they told me was asked for or even suggested by the TWF. They did not even ask for anything.
I sure wouldn't give them a penny.
Even more laugable.
I will say that ensuring the right to hunt and fish for all Tennessee sportsman and women was something TWF put forth effort and money to bring the issue to the ballot. Now YOUR rights are guaranteed by the state constitution!!
Just an on-topic reminder, the meeting is next Thursday, March 4th at the Cool Springs Mariott in Franklin. They have asked that anyone wishing to be there in person for the discussion on the blind draws be there before 12:00 noon. The meeting actually starts at 8am, so I suppose it is possible that they could get to it sooner. If you can't go, you still have a few days to email comments to the commissioners. TNWF's fillable form that sends to all the commissioners at once can be found at https://act.tnwf.org/a/public_duck_blinds
Send them a comment and let them know how they can improve the proposal, It's better than it was, but I feel it can still be made better. Leaving things alone should be an option, but I think they have decided that something is going to be done and changes will be made. We need to voice our opinions and give them reasonable, well thought out reasons that certain things are wrong, and suggest some solutions. Honestly, I feel it would be a better option to do computer draw with changes to fix the problems from last year, and table everything else for the upcoming year, visit the blind sites, visit some other 3-4 day draw sites in the state, and actually talk to people who have hunted a few of the locations. Then look at the comments that suggested ways to improve things, and get someone with some sense to re-revise the plan.
Send them a comment and let them know how they can improve the proposal, It's better than it was, but I feel it can still be made better. Leaving things alone should be an option, but I think they have decided that something is going to be done and changes will be made. We need to voice our opinions and give them reasonable, well thought out reasons that certain things are wrong, and suggest some solutions. Honestly, I feel it would be a better option to do computer draw with changes to fix the problems from last year, and table everything else for the upcoming year, visit the blind sites, visit some other 3-4 day draw sites in the state, and actually talk to people who have hunted a few of the locations. Then look at the comments that suggested ways to improve things, and get someone with some sense to re-revise the plan.
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Headhunter
Well-Known Member
Steve, you must be a politician to. Other than what my friends in the local government told me about what the TWF "DID NOT ASK FOR" every single thing I said is FACT. You find that "laughable"?
I was told the TWF did not try to stop the greenway, not at all, and the TWF suggested the guard rail that cuts off 99 percent of access to the WMA for hunters and fishermen along Stones River Rd. Micheal Butler and Chad Whittenburg were who reperesented the TWF as far as I know at that time and they are useless in my opinion. Almost ZERO communication, and Chad told me personally the TWF recommended the guard rail so that along with everything else is FACT.
I was only told about ONE meeting by the TWF and myself and several others showed up, and we would have been at any other meetings if we would have known. I asked the TWF to be involved, I was told in person by Michael Butler and Chad Whittenburg that myself and anyone else who wanted to would be. They did not communicate anything to me (the only communication from them was the greenway would not be put there if they had anything to do with it). Since it was Bart Gordon's "personal pet" I told them good luck with that but would sure appreciate any help in preserving the hunting land. When I told them that, the only other time they communicated with me they said they were going to get the Poole Knobs campground opened to hunting if the land along the creek was lost.
The greenway is there, that is a fact, I guess that is laughable, I have not hunted there because I have had other places to go, I will next year though, going to be interesting walking the greenway with bow, shotgun, muzzleloader, treestand, decoys, etc. with the greenway walkers. Or, can I just hunt the Poole Knobs campground and say the TWF said that was the exchange for the land lost to the greenway? I am thinking the land on the La Vergne side of the creek is lost to hunting, I don't know, and a spot where I used to have some great duck hunts, is about 70 yards from the greenway, that will be interesting, well if ducks show up.
The guard rail is there, that is a fact. Except for the boat ramp, the guard rail cut off all the access to the WMA along Stones River Rd for hunters and fishermen. That is a fact. Laughable to people like you I guess.
When all this was happening, I called the TWF many, many times. Being upset with the TWF isn't that the greenway happened, but that the TWF did not communicate and for sure did not involve hunters who wanted to be and no one had a clue about the guard rail, and they had known, many fishermen would have been involved to. Micheal Butler is no better than the worst politician I have ever met and I believe Chad has been gone for several years, but he was even worse than a politician.
The only time I heard from the TWF after everything happened was when I ran into Chad in Gatlinburg, he told me the greenway issue went great in La Vergne. I laughed at him and called him an idiot. Michael or Chad never said anything to anyone about whatever dealing went on with the city of La Vergne and the corps (I wasn't the only hunter against the greenway, several years before a bunch of great land was lost in Smyrna to the park near Gilsville). ZERO communication and Chad told me the TWF suggested the guard rail along Stones River Rd. Know what good that did? Nothing. He said it was to prevent the 4 wheelers from riding on the WMA, it did not prevent any 4 wheelers using the WMA, actually made it worse I think. 4 Wheelers are on the WMA all the time.
Also, the 2 people, Jerry Gann and Robin Grubb who worked for La Vergne parks, pushing the greenway were liars and lied to my face, I wish I would have recorded what they told me in person and then later on the same day they the said the exact opposite when they were interviewed by Jerry Barlar from channel 2, after he walked the creek and interviewed me, Robin and Jerry said 2 completely different things). They told me, on more than one occasion, they intended to end all hunting in the La Vergne city limits, especially on the WMA. They told Jerry Barlar (after he interviewed me) a few hours later that they did not want to see any loss of hunting land and wanted to work with the hunters. They bold faced lied and even after they said that in the interview that was televised, they would see me around La Vergne and tell me to enjoy hunting, because the days of hunting in La Vergne were ending. Jerry Gann and Robin Grubb (and other reps from several other cities from around middle Tennessee actually went to the state legislature to try change control of hunting inside city limits to each city government, luckily that was shot down), I remember Robin and Jerry laughing at me and telling me they would make sure I would get arrested if I got caught hunting on the WMA inside the city limits.
Sorry, Steve, you are wrong, you need to research something before you call it laughable. And mine is not the only bad experience with the TWF either. When all this happened, I was told the TWF would be no help when it came to the greenway. Not because of it being Bart Gordon's pet, but because the TWF is useless. I did not believe the people who told me that at the time, but they were correct.
I was told the TWF did not try to stop the greenway, not at all, and the TWF suggested the guard rail that cuts off 99 percent of access to the WMA for hunters and fishermen along Stones River Rd. Micheal Butler and Chad Whittenburg were who reperesented the TWF as far as I know at that time and they are useless in my opinion. Almost ZERO communication, and Chad told me personally the TWF recommended the guard rail so that along with everything else is FACT.
I was only told about ONE meeting by the TWF and myself and several others showed up, and we would have been at any other meetings if we would have known. I asked the TWF to be involved, I was told in person by Michael Butler and Chad Whittenburg that myself and anyone else who wanted to would be. They did not communicate anything to me (the only communication from them was the greenway would not be put there if they had anything to do with it). Since it was Bart Gordon's "personal pet" I told them good luck with that but would sure appreciate any help in preserving the hunting land. When I told them that, the only other time they communicated with me they said they were going to get the Poole Knobs campground opened to hunting if the land along the creek was lost.
The greenway is there, that is a fact, I guess that is laughable, I have not hunted there because I have had other places to go, I will next year though, going to be interesting walking the greenway with bow, shotgun, muzzleloader, treestand, decoys, etc. with the greenway walkers. Or, can I just hunt the Poole Knobs campground and say the TWF said that was the exchange for the land lost to the greenway? I am thinking the land on the La Vergne side of the creek is lost to hunting, I don't know, and a spot where I used to have some great duck hunts, is about 70 yards from the greenway, that will be interesting, well if ducks show up.
The guard rail is there, that is a fact. Except for the boat ramp, the guard rail cut off all the access to the WMA along Stones River Rd for hunters and fishermen. That is a fact. Laughable to people like you I guess.
When all this was happening, I called the TWF many, many times. Being upset with the TWF isn't that the greenway happened, but that the TWF did not communicate and for sure did not involve hunters who wanted to be and no one had a clue about the guard rail, and they had known, many fishermen would have been involved to. Micheal Butler is no better than the worst politician I have ever met and I believe Chad has been gone for several years, but he was even worse than a politician.
The only time I heard from the TWF after everything happened was when I ran into Chad in Gatlinburg, he told me the greenway issue went great in La Vergne. I laughed at him and called him an idiot. Michael or Chad never said anything to anyone about whatever dealing went on with the city of La Vergne and the corps (I wasn't the only hunter against the greenway, several years before a bunch of great land was lost in Smyrna to the park near Gilsville). ZERO communication and Chad told me the TWF suggested the guard rail along Stones River Rd. Know what good that did? Nothing. He said it was to prevent the 4 wheelers from riding on the WMA, it did not prevent any 4 wheelers using the WMA, actually made it worse I think. 4 Wheelers are on the WMA all the time.
Also, the 2 people, Jerry Gann and Robin Grubb who worked for La Vergne parks, pushing the greenway were liars and lied to my face, I wish I would have recorded what they told me in person and then later on the same day they the said the exact opposite when they were interviewed by Jerry Barlar from channel 2, after he walked the creek and interviewed me, Robin and Jerry said 2 completely different things). They told me, on more than one occasion, they intended to end all hunting in the La Vergne city limits, especially on the WMA. They told Jerry Barlar (after he interviewed me) a few hours later that they did not want to see any loss of hunting land and wanted to work with the hunters. They bold faced lied and even after they said that in the interview that was televised, they would see me around La Vergne and tell me to enjoy hunting, because the days of hunting in La Vergne were ending. Jerry Gann and Robin Grubb (and other reps from several other cities from around middle Tennessee actually went to the state legislature to try change control of hunting inside city limits to each city government, luckily that was shot down), I remember Robin and Jerry laughing at me and telling me they would make sure I would get arrested if I got caught hunting on the WMA inside the city limits.
Sorry, Steve, you are wrong, you need to research something before you call it laughable. And mine is not the only bad experience with the TWF either. When all this happened, I was told the TWF would be no help when it came to the greenway. Not because of it being Bart Gordon's pet, but because the TWF is useless. I did not believe the people who told me that at the time, but they were correct.
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Headhunter
Well-Known Member
If I do not have to go out of town for work, I will be there. I have already replied to the link you posted, from past experience that is waste of time. No different than asking the government for help. I have no faith in the TWF.
Correction, it is Thursday, not Friday. But the 4th is the correct date. Sorry for any confusion.
Sam,
I am sorry you lost some of your hunting spots to the Greenway. I know for a fact that both TWRA and TWF opposed this loss and tried to get the Corp not to take that action. The politics were stronger on the other side and it got done. I have no idea on the guard rail, but sincerely doubt that came from the Federation.
I suspect, or at least hope, that you understand the concept behind no net loss of hunting lands. It DOES NOT mean that if Percy Priest WMA loses 500 acres that somehow 500 acres will be added back to that WMA. Basically it is a goal that over the course of time there is no net loss of hunting acreage in the state. Since the vast majority of the public lands are not owned by TWRA or the state, I really doubt that will happen. Great concept, but likely not realistic. I think so far we are pretty close, but, long term, I'm not optimistic.
My laughing at your rant is because you obviously don't have a clue about what the Tennessee Conservation League (now TWF) has meant to hunters and fishermen in this state. Without their decades of input and lobbying on the state and federal level, it is likely you wouldn't have even had the deer to hunt out there, much less had that WMA set up.
The Tennessee Conservation League was largely responsible for getting the model legislation passed years ago setting up a modern and science based state agency to deal with hunting and fishing in this state. While the Tennessee Game and Fish and TWRA did the hands on work in restoring the deer and turkey we now hunt in this state, the League was always in the background supporting those efforts. There has NEVER been another NGO that has come even close to supporting the hunters and fishermen in this state like they have. They have made a tremendous positive difference for all outdoorsmen and women.
Like any organization, I don't agree 100% with what they do (although they are up there in the high nineties for me). And, occasionally, they don't have the politics to win a battle. But, they are there, day in and day out, fighting for those that like to hunt and fish. And, there is no other group that even comes close to their work. So, yes, your rant about wanting them defunded is totally laughable.
I am sorry you lost some of your hunting spots to the Greenway. I know for a fact that both TWRA and TWF opposed this loss and tried to get the Corp not to take that action. The politics were stronger on the other side and it got done. I have no idea on the guard rail, but sincerely doubt that came from the Federation.
I suspect, or at least hope, that you understand the concept behind no net loss of hunting lands. It DOES NOT mean that if Percy Priest WMA loses 500 acres that somehow 500 acres will be added back to that WMA. Basically it is a goal that over the course of time there is no net loss of hunting acreage in the state. Since the vast majority of the public lands are not owned by TWRA or the state, I really doubt that will happen. Great concept, but likely not realistic. I think so far we are pretty close, but, long term, I'm not optimistic.
My laughing at your rant is because you obviously don't have a clue about what the Tennessee Conservation League (now TWF) has meant to hunters and fishermen in this state. Without their decades of input and lobbying on the state and federal level, it is likely you wouldn't have even had the deer to hunt out there, much less had that WMA set up.
The Tennessee Conservation League was largely responsible for getting the model legislation passed years ago setting up a modern and science based state agency to deal with hunting and fishing in this state. While the Tennessee Game and Fish and TWRA did the hands on work in restoring the deer and turkey we now hunt in this state, the League was always in the background supporting those efforts. There has NEVER been another NGO that has come even close to supporting the hunters and fishermen in this state like they have. They have made a tremendous positive difference for all outdoorsmen and women.
Like any organization, I don't agree 100% with what they do (although they are up there in the high nineties for me). And, occasionally, they don't have the politics to win a battle. But, they are there, day in and day out, fighting for those that like to hunt and fish. And, there is no other group that even comes close to their work. So, yes, your rant about wanting them defunded is totally laughable.
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Headhunter
Well-Known Member
Maybe if they had communicated as you did, I would feel differently. They did not even remotely say or do anything in any way as you talked about above.
I can tell you in my dealing with them, it was a joke. Unprofessional, basically zero communication, told me to my face what they were proposing and that it was going to happen. The TWF person himself, Chad, told me that the TWF proposed the guard rail. He said "we" helped get the guard rail in place to cut down 4 wheeler traffic, that is a joke in itself.
The one time, and I mean one time Michael Butler talked to me personally, (along with Chad) also told me if the land along the creek was lost to hunting, then the Poole Knobs campground would be opened up to hunting. It was not, we think we can get this, or this might happen, they told me it was a done deal. I particularly didn't care about hunting the campground and the youth camp is also there, not sure that would not infringe on them. But I can only go by what they communicated, which wasn't much and turned out to 100 percent not be true and none of it done and my friends in the La Vergne government at the time told me the TWF did not oppose the greenway. They were upset to because they were the only ones in the La Vergne government who didn't want the greenway because they hunted also. I don't know if I can get in touch with them, they both moved away, but if I can I will.
The TWF lost any support from me and had already lost support from many, many others I know, also over what they said they would do but was never done.
It is not that something wasn't done by the TWF or politically things happened that was out of their control that upset myself and others, it was the absolute lack of communication and what was told to us that looking back, had to be dishonest. Still to this day, no explanation, not at all.
I could care less if the TWF stays around or not. Probably do just as much good without them or even better a politician with the right connections.
I can tell you in my dealing with them, it was a joke. Unprofessional, basically zero communication, told me to my face what they were proposing and that it was going to happen. The TWF person himself, Chad, told me that the TWF proposed the guard rail. He said "we" helped get the guard rail in place to cut down 4 wheeler traffic, that is a joke in itself.
The one time, and I mean one time Michael Butler talked to me personally, (along with Chad) also told me if the land along the creek was lost to hunting, then the Poole Knobs campground would be opened up to hunting. It was not, we think we can get this, or this might happen, they told me it was a done deal. I particularly didn't care about hunting the campground and the youth camp is also there, not sure that would not infringe on them. But I can only go by what they communicated, which wasn't much and turned out to 100 percent not be true and none of it done and my friends in the La Vergne government at the time told me the TWF did not oppose the greenway. They were upset to because they were the only ones in the La Vergne government who didn't want the greenway because they hunted also. I don't know if I can get in touch with them, they both moved away, but if I can I will.
The TWF lost any support from me and had already lost support from many, many others I know, also over what they said they would do but was never done.
It is not that something wasn't done by the TWF or politically things happened that was out of their control that upset myself and others, it was the absolute lack of communication and what was told to us that looking back, had to be dishonest. Still to this day, no explanation, not at all.
I could care less if the TWF stays around or not. Probably do just as much good without them or even better a politician with the right connections.
