Turkey Decline Article

[Andy S.]

Worthy of reading, and very applicable to what many of us are experiencing these days.

https://greatdaysoutdoors.com/2019/02/a ... opulation/

 

[TheLBLman]

These quotes particularly noteworthy:

The reasons for the decline are numerous.
It is everything from loss of habitat, poor reproduction due to the increasing raccoon population to increases in predator populations, both furred (bobcats, foxes, and coyotes) and feathered (hawks, owls, and eagles).
In the opinion of some very knowledgeable people, the liberalization of deer baiting laws has come to the detriment of our turkeys.
Adding to these issues is another very big problem:
The rapid increase of wild hog populations has seriously impacted what was once some of the state's best turkey hunting ground.

Although Tennessee has not yet "liberalized" its baiting laws,
IMO, we have experienced a tremendous increase in both legal and illegal baiting & "feeding".
This is readily evidenced by the "feeders" now dotting the landscape,
as well as all the "deer corn" sold DURING deer season by Walmart, Bass Pro, and other stores.

I've said for many years that corn feeding has been detrimental to the turkey populations across Tennessee. This is mainly because feeding stations become a direct cause of increased predation (bobcats, coyotes, dogs quickly learn to just lie in wait), plus the problem of molding corn developing aflatoxin. A single kernel of aflatoxin corn can kill an adult turkey.

 

[TheLBLman]

Other noteworthy quotes:

Nest predators have a far greater impact on turkey populations than carnivore predators.
It is very likely that up to 75% of all turkey nests are destroyed by some type of nest predator.
The vast majority of these nests are lost to raccoons.

Carnivore predators, while killing a certain amount of turkeys, are probably a bit exaggerated on their negative effects.
The number one culprit of these predators is the bobcat.

While many turkey hunters like to hate the coyotes . . . . . that threat is overblown.

Avian predators, especially hawks, are a very real threat to poults the first few weeks of their lives.
Due to the fact that killing of all avian predators is illegal, there is basically nothing that can legally be done to address this problem.

 

[poorhunter]

I do not buy into the habitat loss and predators being a big factor, especially non nest raider predators. Predators have always been around and in large numbers. . Habitat? Good gravy people, look at where turkeys live and thrive...all over the US! In many places where they have been declining is the best habitat a turkey could ever want and ask for (SW Hickman County Tennessee for example). I still can't think of anything that causes the rapid and dramatic decline in population other than disease or poison.

 

[Andy S.]

Another article I came across today:

https://www.fieldandstream.com/special- ... eastern-us

 

[Andy S.]

Although Tennessee has not yet "liberalized" its baiting laws,
IMO, we have experienced a tremendous increase in both legal and illegal baiting & "feeding".
This is readily evidenced by the "feeders" now dotting the landscape,
as well as all the "deer corn" sold DURING deer season by Walmart, Bass Pro, and other stores.

I've said for many years that corn feeding has been detrimental to the turkey populations across Tennessee. This is mainly because feeding stations become a direct cause of increased predation (bobcats, coyotes, dogs quickly learn to just lie in wait), plus the problem of molding corn developing aflatoxin. A single kernel of aflatoxin corn can kill an adult turkey.

Amen! I wish FIRST OFFENSE baiting citation had some teeth to it, like a $1,000 FINE.

 

[Andy S.]

I do not buy into the habitat loss....

I do. Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but it's a major factor in other states/locations, just as the article eluded to.

.....especially non nest raider predators. Predators have always been around and in large numbers.

Agreed.

I still can't think of anything that causes the rapid and dramatic decline in population other than disease or poison.

Agreed 110%.

 

[TheLBLman]

I still can't think of anything that causes the rapid and dramatic decline in population other than disease or poison.

Uh, aflatoxin corn is in fact deadly poison to turkeys?

A few years ago, I saw an entire area's turkey population wiped out by a single batch of certified "aflatoxin-free" corn (that developed aflatoxin via molding after it was placed). A single feeder, a single feeding, one bag of corn from the County Co-Op.

I can't help but notice the correlation between increased corn feeding/baiting and the steady decline in turkey populations in the same areas.

Coincidence?
or
Correlated?

Also, by the way, MOST of the "deer corn" sold at Walmarts all across Tennessee
may already contain the deadly (to turkeys) aflatoxin!

In many states, such as Texas, it is illegal to be sold,
so it gets shipped to states that allow it's sale, like Tennessee.

 

[poorhunter]

I still can't think of anything that causes the rapid and dramatic decline in population other than disease or poison.

Uh, aflatoxin corn is in fact deadly poison to turkeys?

A few years ago, I saw an entire area's turkey population wiped out by a single batch of certified "aflatoxin-free" corn (that developed aflatoxin via molding after it was placed). A single feeder, a single feeding, one bag of corn from the County Co-Op.

I can't help but notice the correlation between increased corn feeding/baiting and the steady decline in turkey populations in the same areas.

Coincidence?
or
Correlated?

Also, by the way, MOST of the "deer corn" sold at Walmarts all across Tennessee
may already contain the deadly (to turkeys) aflatoxin!

In many states, such as Texas, it is illegal to be sold,
so it gets shipped to states that allow it's sale, like Tennessee.

When I said "poison" I include aflatoxin with "poison".

 

[TheLBLman]

When I said "poison" I include aflatoxin with "poison".

I know you did, but so many people, with the best of good intentions
do not realize how easy it is for corn to develop aflatoxin
and then a single bag can wipe out an entire wintering flock from a single feeding.

Aflatoxin corn doesn't discriminate against just old Toms either.
It takes out the hens, the young, the old, all the same.

 

[Andy S.]

When I said "poison" I include aflatoxin with "poison".

I know you did, but so many people, with the best of good intentions
do not realize how easy it is for corn to develop aflatoxin
and then a single bag can wipe out an entire wintering flock from a single feeding.

Aflatoxin corn doesn't discriminate against just old Toms either.
It takes out the hens, the young, the old, all the same.

Agreed, and you, me, nor anyone else will EVER make them understand that IF for one second they think the corn is a crutch that can put the odds in their favor to bag a bird. I was talking to some guys from MS the other day and they confided in me and told me they fill the spin feeder with corn, put the cellular camera on it, monitor the timestamp on the cellular transmitted photos, and sit by the feeder at peak times. Right now, that is 8:30 in the morning and 2:30 in the afternoon. No need to get up early, listen for any gobbling, or buy any calls, just show up and shoot. That is what they call hunting. Good ole country guys best I could tell, but just goes to show what the sport, the crutches, and the liberal bag limits have come to, all the while, with documented declining turkey populations.

 

[poorhunter]

When I said "poison" I include aflatoxin with "poison".

I know you did, but so many people, with the best of good intentions
do not realize how easy it is for corn to develop aflatoxin
and then a single bag can wipe out an entire wintering flock from a single feeding.

Aflatoxin corn doesn't discriminate against just old Toms either.
It takes out the hens, the young, the old, all the same.

Agreed, and you, me, nor anyone else will EVER make them understand that IF for one second they think the corn is a crutch that can put the odds in their favor to bag a bird. I was talking to some guys from MS the other day and they confided in me and told me they fill the spin feeder with corn, put the cellular camera on it, monitor the timestamp on the cellular transmitted photos, and sit by the feeder at peak times. Right now, that is 8:30 in the morning and 2:30 in the afternoon. No need to get up early, listen for any gobbling, or buy any calls, just show up and shoot. That is what they call hunting. Good ole country guys best I could tell, but just goes to show what the sport, the crutches, and the liberal bag limits have come to, all the while, with documented declining turkey populations.

When I talked to the fellas at work about the poached turkeys by the golf course in Hohenwald, that was one of the things they said...they didn't know anyone that DIDNT use corn, it's the only way to kill them. :bash:

 

[AT Hiker]

Here is a interesting link that describes a virus I've seen mentioned a few times.

https://cwhl.vet.cornell.edu/disease/ly ... ve-disease


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[muddyboots]

I don't buy the corn feeding part. People been feeding deer and turkey through the good times too. Just my opinion. The downfall all started when limits raised. When limit was 2 hunting was astounding. Just in my common sense mind if that's what changed then that's at least part of the problem.

 

[megalomaniac]

Muddy, it was a combination of increased limits and exponentially increased hunters with more efficient methods of killing (reaping). A larger and larger percentage of the standing gobblers were removed prior to breeding, which in part led to declining poult recruitment. Rinse and repeat over a decade, and it's a miracle we have any birds at all.

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[Roost 1]

Muddy, it was a combination of increased limits and exponentially increased hunters with more efficient methods of killing (reaping). A larger and larger percentage of the standing gobblers were removed prior to breeding, which in part led to declining poult recruitment. Rinse and repeat over a decade, and it's a miracle we have any birds at all.

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We have a winner but I'll add baiting, some are very efficient at it.

 

[Andy S.]

Muddy, it was a combination of increased limits and exponentially increased hunters with more efficient methods of killing (reaping). A larger and larger percentage of the standing gobblers were removed prior to breeding, which in part led to declining poult recruitment. Rinse and repeat over a decade, and it's a miracle we have any birds at all.

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We have a winner but I'll add baiting, some are very efficient at it.

Agreed on all accounts!

 

[AT Hiker]

Your not implying that someone might be a baiter if they double, triple, etc every opening day by 6:30am central time are you?


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[poorhunter]

Muddy, it was a combination of increased limits and exponentially increased hunters with more efficient methods of killing (reaping). A larger and larger percentage of the standing gobblers were removed prior to breeding, which in part led to declining poult recruitment. Rinse and repeat over a decade, and it's a miracle we have any birds at all.

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We have a winner but I'll add baiting, some are very efficient at it.

I used to think that, and I'm sure that scenario plays a major role in many areas, but I really don't think so for my little part of the turkey world. I very rarely have seen many hunters on the neighboring farms I hunt, and I'm the only one that hunts the farms I have permission on. I have roughly 1200 acres at my disposal in a five square mile area and rarely even hear a shot during turkey season. I have never seen a decoy user. Now, I don't get to hunt every day but I do listen and watch until 630 or so every morning on one or another farm just to keep tabs on things. I say all this realizing I don't see or hear everything by any stretch, but I just don't see the over hunting/killing being a problem. I used to be able to watch the same group of toms/hens virtually every day in the same pasture for weeks. This would be on 4 of the farms I have permission on, meaning I could watch these 4 separate flocks all season long with the only birds missing being the ones I killed...until last year when they all disappeared.

 

[woodsman04]

I just haven't seen the negative impacts of hunting over bait that some of you suggest. I mean if a guy where to sit over a corn feeder all day I think he'd have some luck, but usually in the spring they are more worried about breeding than eating corn. And hens usually go find suitable nest and brood habitat and the gobblers will disperse and follow.


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[AllOutdoors]

Muddy, it was a combination of increased limits and exponentially increased hunters with more efficient methods of killing (reaping). A larger and larger percentage of the standing gobblers were removed prior to breeding, which in part led to declining poult recruitment. Rinse and repeat over a decade, and it's a miracle we have any birds at all.

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This^^^

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[megalomaniac]

Prob a negative impact from hunting over bait.... I may be wrong, but sitting and waiting till they feed by sounds suspicipus

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[AT Hiker]

Meat eater just released a pretty good summary of the declining issue at hand. One good take away is that the author mentioned a "leveling out effect". Hopefully that's the case.

http://themeateater.com/conservation/wi ... he-turkeys


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[Andy S.]

^^^^^ My favorite sentence:

".....State wildlife agencies do adjust season lengths and bag limits to tweak populations"

Some agencies do (SC), and some do not.

 

[AT Hiker]

Unfortunately some do not.
Actually, some manage for the ostrich, or is it like the ostrich? Regardless, turkeys don't stick in their heads in the sand.


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[bloodtrailing]

We do not bait on our land. Not sure what the neighbors do, but I have not killed a turkey full of corn. With that said, our population is well below what it has been. I noticed it with the introduction of fall hunting and increased bag limits. The strange thing is no one consistently kills the limit on the land we hunt, if ever.

 

[Levee Jumper]

Sit in a Blind and wait.... Dang is deer season not long enough? :poke:

 

[Huntaholic]

Folks, Ive been chasing these black devils since before some of yall were even born. I started in 1984. At that time the ONLY place around here to hunt was Catoosa. I don't believe the hog excuse. If that was the case there wouldn't be a bird on Catoosa.
As far as the feeding issue goes, YES aflatoxin can decimate a population. But I don't think that's the primary issue either. If it were there wouldn't be a turkey in TX, AL, FL, GA, or KY and that's just not the case either. The only way feeding them hurts is when feeding becomes hunting.
I was here when the surrounding counties and most of the state was stocked with birds and Ive made this analogy to all of my hunting buddies that cared to listen. The restocking efforts are like a wave in the ocean. You start with a flat calm sea and the ripple starts. That ripple builds bigger and bigger in size until it peaks. Then it ebbs away leaving the surface behind it wet but not flooded like the peak of the wave. THAT is how a turkey population goes.
Back to Catoosa, In all the years I hunted there, I never saw a huge spike and fall in the population. Im assuming that it because the population was already at sustainable levels in 1984. The thing about most of the turkeys we all hunt now is that we put them there. God put the turkeys at Catoosa and they have been there ever since. What I feel we are seeing is the natural balancing of the population.
Just my $.02 take it for what its worth!

 

[SKFOOTER]

I read a post on Facebook earlier this week about an article from last year that discussed the decline in Pennsylvania of the Ruffed Grouse population and how they thought it was linked to the West Nile Virus. I've mentioned before on here that I had heard those rumors had been discussed recently by TWRA personnel. Just some food for thought.

 

[AT Hiker]

If it's just a wave and we are in permanent low tide then the lifeguards need to adjust and pull us out of the rip current before it's to late.

Or better yet, if turkeys are a budget then we need to rebalance before we spend them all.


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