TN elk question

[Doskil]

Should it be legal to shoot any elk wandering off the restoration area?

Is it legal?

 

[deerslayeror2]

no its not and will not

 

[Doskil]

Only reason I bring this up is VA and KY allow it.

I am glad TN is not following suit

 

[Locksley]

I would think Tennessee hunters are more true conservationist than some states .

 

[4onaside]

Only reason I bring this up is VA and KY allow it.

I am glad TN is not following suit

The situations are not comparable. Tennessee is trying to develop a herd in a relatively small area, and witness only 4 tags available in the draw for the general public, the herd is very small. Whereas, Kentucky allows elk that stray outside of the elk zone to be killed, but the zone encompasses 16 counties, which is basically all of Southeast Kentucky. And, while it may have changed in the past couple of years, Virginia did not encourage Kentucky elk that wandered over the state line, and allowed Virginia deer hunters to kill them if they had the opportunity.

 

[Doskil]

I don't see a differnce.

TN, KY and VA only want elk in certain portions of the state.

If you don't want them expanding their range to unwanted areas, then you have to shoot them or kill them some other way.

Either that or allow them to expand.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

In kentucky you still need an elk tag to kill an out-of-zone elk. While you might get that opportunity, you must still buy the license in advance. Seems to be a good money making opportunity for KDFWR ($30.00 per hunter). There is also an antler restriction on out-of-zone elk (Less than 4 points on a side). Cows cannot be killed. Kentucky also has enough elk to trap and restock other areas whereas we do not.

If they truly wanted them eliminated outside the elk zone, would cows and large bulls be protected?

 

[Doskil]

ELK HUNTING OUTSIDE THE
RESTORATION ZONE
Elk may be taken from any county
outside the restoration zone by hunters
who possess an annual Kentucky hunting
license and an out-of-zone elk permit.
These hunters must follow deer season
and equipment regulations, but are
not required to possess a deer permit.
Bulls with fewer than four points on one
side are legal for harvest outside the restoration
zone.
Elk taken in counties OTHER
THAN THE 16 COUNTIES
LISTED do not count toward the deer
season limit. The season bag limit on elk
is one per hunter per season, regardless
of permit type.

http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/pdf/deergu ... unting.pdf

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Should be. Flippin things are causing damage where they arent wanted. They are bad to tear fence down. It will happen if they really start expanding and causing alot of damage, Farm Bureau, USDA will make sure of that.

 

[RAFI]

In kentucky you still need an elk tag to kill an out-of-zone elk. While you might get that opportunity, you must still buy the license in advance. Seems to be a good money making opportunity for KDFWR ($30.00 per hunter). There is also an antler restriction on out-of-zone elk (Less than 4 points on a side). Cows cannot be killed. Kentucky also has enough elk to trap and restock other areas whereas we do not.

If they truly wanted them eliminated outside the elk zone, would cows and large bulls be protected?

great point

 

[Locksley]

I don't see a differnce.

TN, KY and VA only want elk in certain portions of the state.

If you don't want them expanding their range to unwanted areas, then you have to shoot them or kill them some other way.

Either that or allow them to expand.

allow them to expand.

 

[Locksley]

Should be. Flippin things are causing damage where they arent wanted. They are bad to tear fence down. It will happen if they really start expanding and causing alot of damage, Farm Bureau, USDA will make sure of that.

allow them to expand.

 

[Locksley]

ELK HUNTING OUTSIDE THE
RESTORATION ZONE
Elk may be taken from any county
outside the restoration zone by hunters
who possess an annual Kentucky hunting
license and an out-of-zone elk permit.
These hunters must follow deer season
and equipment regulations, but are
not required to possess a deer permit.
Bulls with fewer than four points on one
side are legal for harvest outside the restoration
zone.
Elk taken in counties OTHER
THAN THE 16 COUNTIES
LISTED do not count toward the deer
season limit. The season bag limit on elk
is one per hunter per season, regardless
of permit type.

http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/pdf/deergu ... unting.pdf

allow them to expand.

 

[Locksley]

Only reason I bring this up is VA and KY allow it.

I am glad TN is not following suit

The situations are not comparable. Tennessee is trying to develop a herd in a relatively small area, and witness only 4 tags available in the draw for the general public, the herd is very small. Whereas, Kentucky allows elk that stray outside of the elk zone to be killed, but the zone encompasses 16 counties, which is basically all of Southeast Kentucky. And, while it may have changed in the past couple of years, Virginia did not encourage Kentucky elk that wandered over the state line, and allowed Virginia deer hunters to kill them if they had the opportunity.

allow them to expand.

 

[4onaside]

In kentucky you still need an elk tag to kill an out-of-zone elk. While you might get that opportunity, you must still buy the license in advance. Seems to be a good money making opportunity for KDFWR ($30.00 per hunter). There is also an antler restriction on out-of-zone elk (Less than 4 points on a side). Cows cannot be killed. Kentucky also has enough elk to trap and restock other areas whereas we do not.

If they truly wanted them eliminated outside the elk zone, would cows and large bulls be protected?

I haven't checked this past season, but the primary reason that killing or not killing elk outside the zone is that there are none there! Maybe one or two a year are killed outside the 16 county area. So, almost all of the elk population continue to grow and stay within the 16 county elk zone. If they were migrating all over the place, Tennessee would not have had to bother with stocking Royal Blue, because it is very close to the South East Kentucky elk zone. We could have just waited for them to migrate, and all of upper east Tennessee would be populated on its own. It just doesn't work that way. The animals stay within the general area in which they were born or stocked as long as the habitat is suitable, and the reclaimed coal country in SE Kentucky is definitely suitable habitat.

 

[Doskil]

6 female elk were taken outside the restoration zone in 2010.

http://fw.ky.gov/app1/elkresults.aspx

Elk are also moving from KY into WV and VA

 

[4onaside]

In kentucky you still need an elk tag to kill an out-of-zone elk. While you might get that opportunity, you must still buy the license in advance. Seems to be a good money making opportunity for KDFWR ($30.00 per hunter). There is also an antler restriction on out-of-zone elk (Less than 4 points on a side). Cows cannot be killed. Kentucky also has enough elk to trap and restock other areas whereas we do not.

If they truly wanted them eliminated outside the elk zone, would cows and large bulls be protected?

 

[4onaside]

In kentucky you still need an elk tag to kill an out-of-zone elk. While you might get that opportunity, you must still buy the license in advance. Seems to be a good money making opportunity for KDFWR ($30.00 per hunter). There is also an antler restriction on out-of-zone elk (Less than 4 points on a side). Cows cannot be killed. Kentucky also has enough elk to trap and restock other areas whereas we do not.

If they truly wanted them eliminated outside the elk zone, would cows and large bulls be protected?

They are not, if you can believe the telecheck records for 2010. All six taken out of zone were cows. However, in my opinion there is something fishy about the telecheck records, as 4 of the 6 supposedly came from Hardin county which is just south of Ft.Knox, I believe Elizabehtown being the county seat. A couple of hundred miles from the elk zone, and in a rather populous area, and FOUR COWS? Something ain't right. lol

 

[Locksley]

I know where we can get some Elk from an island possibly free from CWD and they are free . The American hunter an NRA book says there are Roosevelt Elk and Kaibab mule deer on Santa Rosa Island near Santa Barbara California . At midnight on December 31 2011 sharpshooters will hunt down all the Elk and Mule deer and destroy them.

By Lacey Biles, NRA-ILA Hunting Policy Liaison

Nestled in the Pacific Ocean approximately 30 miles from the mainland of Santa Barbara sits a beautiful island where majestic Roosevelt elk and Kaibab mule deer roam free. Ferried across a treacherous channel, these grand species were brought to Santa Rosa Island some 80 years ago, but their days are officially numbered. A complete slaughter of these magnificent animals is scheduled to occur before the midnight tide rises on Dec. 31, 2011. Sharpshooters will be en route to the island soon to comply with a 1996 court settlement and 2007 legislation that reinstated the extermination order.

The 83-square-mile island was privately owned for more than a century before being sold to the National Park Service in 1986 for $30 million. Used as a cattle and sheep ranch for much of its modern history, overgrazing disrupted the balance of the island`s ecosystem. The 1996 lawsuit settlement required the removal of all cattle, sheep and feral hogs from the island, followed by a phased reduction of elk and mule deer to culminate at the end of 2011 with complete extermination.

As this is a government-mandated animal slaughter, you may ask where the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) have been in the process. They have been curiously absent, giving us a clear picture of their definition of "conservation." In fact, HSUS` congressional allies, U.S. Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer and U.S. Rep. Lois Capps, blocked NRA`s efforts to prevent the slaughter in 2007 by inserting a provision into the omnibus appropriations bill that reinstated the extermination order. The animal-saving law blocked by the three lawmakers would have allowed disabled veterans to hunt the majestic elk and mule deer based on biologists` harvest recommendations.

The battle over Santa Rosa Island illustrates diverging definitions of "conservation." Theodore Roosevelt was largely responsible for sparking America`s conservation movement after witnessing the detritus left behind by the 19th century`s commercial big game slaughter. An avid hunter throughout his life, Roosevelt could not countenance big game populations dwindling below sustainable hunting levels. He helped to create the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, which used regulated hunting as an essential tool to bring back numerous species from the brink of extinction and help them thrive again.

Regulated hunting of Roosevelt elk and Kaibab mule deer on Santa Rosa Island has been employed and celebrated for decades, keeping populations in check that have no natural predators. Although the presence of such majestic beasts enriches the experience of all who visit the island, HSUS and PETA seem to prefer total extermination of the elk and deer populations rather than allowing one more hunter to take to the field. Again, these anti-hunting extremists refuse to acknowledge that hunters are largely responsible for preserving America`s wild lands and the wild things that Roosevelt held sacrosanct.

Animal "rights" extremists have tried to seize the word "conservation" and change its definition to remove hunting as a tool. Unfortunately, they have had some success and Santa Rosa Island may be their next victory.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/R ... &issue=021
_________________________

Every time I read a story about some town hiring someone to exterminate game animals, it makes me crazy.
I remember reading stories like this in the 1970's and '80's in the various outdoor magazines.
Seems like some places would rather have sharpshooters exterminate an entire herd than allow legal hunting of any kind. They have a warped sense of science.

Keep in mind, these lunatics are the same ones that scream "global warming", and "man-made climate change".

What a bunch of complete two-faced, hypocritical morons.

I don't know anything about this other than what I have read here but I guess I have a different point of view. It is wasteful to just kill them but elk and mule deer are apparently not native to the island. Like hogs, starlings, and nutria here in TN. Additionally, the purpose of the US Park Service is not to provide hunting opportunity. Very few,if any national parks allow hunting.

The US Park Service should provide hunting in the Parks because that balances nature. Who says elk and mule deer are apparently not native to the island some New York city foolish Anti-Hunting type that lives in California now and knows nothing about the place before it was a big city slicker city. JUST SAYING MY PEACE..

That's something else...you should post that in the General Forum

I hope people realize that if this happens this is how they will destroy our hunting game in there sanctuaries , [THE NATIONAL PARKS ] so pay real close attention here.

So would these island Elk be isolated enough for TN to use and stock in our area , they are on an island . Should be free of CWD out there.

Originally Posted By: BigGameGuy
As enticing as that sounds until there's a live test for all diseases associated with Cervids I don't believe we'll be introducing anymore elk into Tennessee.


Do you really think these elk have diseases?

Would the TWRA still release surplus elk from LBL?



Edited by Doskil (08-28-2011 05:36 PM)

6 female elk were taken outside the restoration zone in 2010.

http://fw.ky.gov/app1/elkresults.aspx

Elk are also moving from KY into WV and VA


Well allow them the Elk herd to expand.

 

[Locksley]

Only reason I bring this up is VA and KY allow it.

I am glad TN is not following suit

I am glad TN is not following suit on exterminating Elk everywhere outside some line on a map that they can not see , and that have nothing to do with where Elk need to migrate to during the winter .

 

[Jugfish]

I would think Tennessee hunters are more true conservationist than some states .

HAHA. Thats funny.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

You better believe it should be legal to shoot them. Anybody that says otherwise is a non landowner that hasnt had fence, crops, etc destroyed by elk. You cant look at the issue from a " I want to hunt them" position.

 

[nashvile1]

You really dont want to hit one at night.

 

[Doskil]

You better believe it should be legal to shoot them. Anybody that says otherwise is a non landowner that hasnt had fence, crops, etc destroyed by elk. You cant look at the issue from a " I want to hunt them" position.

Is that happening in TN?

 

[Dean Parisian]

The state south of TN, them Dawgs, didnt' want elk from the get-go.

Hard to fathom but then it is Jawga and some things don't make sense with the Georgia Department of Natural Resources.

And never will.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

You better believe it should be legal to shoot them. Anybody that says otherwise is a non landowner that hasnt had fence, crops, etc destroyed by elk. You cant look at the issue from a " I want to hunt them" position.

Is that happening in TN?

Yes has been for several years. Elk have strayed far from the restoration area. That area is terrible habitat, of course the elk will head for the better ag areas in the bottoms. The last bull that came thru here caused alot of damage and disappeared mysteriously. There is a report floating around out there, if you can still find it, that lists malnutrition as the cause of death for quite a few of the TN elk, hence the reason many of them are wandering away from that mountainous habitat.The TWRA is supposed to capture wanderers or even kill them if capture isnt possbile. I know they killed one here.

 

[Locksley]

I would think Tennessee hunters are more true conservationist than some states .

HAHA. Thats funny.

There were some true sportsmen in Tennessee once.

 

[Locksley]

[/quot

bart the new rules changed nothing about your hunt.the pigs
Went onto a wma that was closed to hunting them unless
You were on a drawn hunt so that's the only thing I see

I understand that and stated that in my post, but if they would've went anywhere else the results would've been the same.

So you want to shoot and kill and eat I hope every Hog your dogs run up and corner . So that you eliminate all unwanted Hogs from a farm is that correct .?? That way the hunters get to hunt the hogs and shoot them and eat them, hey this sounds like what my old grandfather would do with to many hogs , eat them all. Humm you guys would have it both ways then .
So why cant we not do this hunting killing and eating um all till they are all gone from where they are not wated ??

I know the federal parks had to trap there hogs , because they do not allow hunting , YOU SEE.

ITS IN THE FACTS " 1990 16 hogs of the 51hogs killed all year was by USING DOGS IN ONLY 3 DAYS" just like last year 36 of 72hogs killed was by using dogs , not using my money to pay somebody to trap and kill ON THE WMA!!!!

SPREAD ON

From the looks of this map Dog Hunters have spread more hogs than they have killed and that is what created the problem.

TWRA, sorry for the discussion.

BLAME US ALL YOU WANT, ME AND YOU DONT KNOW WHO SPREAD THEM ?? Most ive KILEED on farmers land were spotted and ugly "FERAL HOGS" , If my group was stocking it would be good blood not south GA and FL crap !!

SPREAD ON

Well it seems that Hogs are smart enough to stock themselves where they are not hunted. The hunting is what is important here because we are hunters and we want to hunt , not waste our money on hiring someone to do what we as hunters are suppose to be allowed to do. We buy licenses to hunt not to waste money on paying some guy to do what we do gladly for free.

It sure is a good sound listening to a pack of hounds running a wild boar or listening to them at night when they are running a coon to tree. Back in 1955 and 1956 my grandfather would sit on the breezeway porch of the old Sutton house with me way up into the wee hours of the night listening to my uncles dogs running a coon down by the river . Dogs were used by Davy Crockett and Daniel Boon back when they were hunting here in Tennessee so let the hunt begin .

ITS IN THE FACTS " 1990 16 hogs of the 51hogs killed all year was by USING DOGS IN ONLY 3 DAYS" just like last year 36 of 72hogs killed was by using dogs , not using my money to pay somebody to trap and kill ON THE WMA!!!!

SPREAD ON

From the looks of this map Dog Hunters have spread more hogs than they have killed and that is what created the problem.

TWRA, sorry for the discussion.

I think you have misstated this point. The Dog Hunting has been very restrictive with only two areas that allowed it and just for a very short time. 2-3 days here 2 weeks there. Most of the dog hunting from my experience is with running deer. We have a "Shoot-Shovel-Shut up" policy in place on our lease just for that reason.
Hunting with dogs on a regular basis ( LEGALLY) hasn't been tried as of yet. AS far as I know.

thanks

john

twra relocated over 4,000 hogs from the GSMNP to the cumberland plateau in the past...

This statement is false. The posting of erroneous information will not be tolerated.

North Carolina recieved 79% of the hogs that the GSMNP trapped. Of the 901 hogs TWRA received almost all of them went to South Cherokee (95% of those were released prior to 1993).

I know the guy very well that transported them for the twra to tellico,benton mtn and kimsey mtn and CATOSA !!! He went in rotation between all these areas in order.... for $300 a load and had to supply trailer and truck and buy the sticker for HIS truck that said TWRA CONTRATOR

We are not denying that some hogs may have went to Catoosa but the statement that "twra relocated over 4,000 hogs from the GSMNP to the cumberland plateau" is a gross exaggeration of the truth that will not be tolerated.

The hunting is what is important here because we are hunters and we want to hunt , not waste our money on hiring someone to do what we as hunters are suppose to be allowed to do.

Locksley -

I couldn't agree more that hunting is important but justifying it because "hunters want to hunt" is an excuse that our agency simply can not use as a sole justification for season. We manage all the resources, not just hogs, not just deer, not just fish (etc.). We limit, reduce, and even eliminate hunting privileges all the time. Last year we completely eliminated fall turkey hunting opportunities in West TN counties, we have reduced deer bag limits, we have even closed bear seasons entirely for a number of years. We recommend these actions when we feel the closure will be a benefit to the resource. The hog regulations are no different. We are recommending these actions for the benefit of the resource, that is, ALL resources except hogs. We want hogs dead because of their negative impacts on our native plant and animal resources. If we close sport hog hunting and liberalize methods for folks wanting to kill hogs on private property and we see a benefit to other species because hog populations are brought under control, then we have done our job.

Excellent question.

TWRA is not alone in our fight against hogs. We have been working with other state agencies and NGOs in taking up the fight against this invasive species. There has recently been an MOU signed that unifies us all in our efforts to eradicate hogs. So far it has been signed by the TN Department of Agriculture, TN Farm Bureau, TN Department of Health, TN Pork Producers, TN Association of Soil Conservation Districts, TN Soybean Association, and Tennessee Wildlife Federation.

Did Farm Bureau want all hog hunting stopped or did they just want more rights for the land owners? I know at the meeting in Crossville the Farm Bureau rep. that was there stated that they didn't want any part of stopping sport hog hunting but wanted the landowners to have more options on there property to remove hogs.

I understand closing hunting to protect an endangered species here . But you have a Hog abundance here now , or an abundance on some farm fields. So why not hunt the hods so hunters can hunt which is why hunters support TWRA and trap shoot exterminate kill or what ever the hogs at the same time . Do both trap and hunt shoot eat hogs.
If my grandfathers neighbors were still around they would be eating high on the Hog right now , with all these hogs needing eating.
The farm bureau stopped Elk hunting in TN once as I remember , so are these family farmers that have owned the land for generations or are they big commercial farms new to Tennessee tht care only for gold .

I understand closing hunting to protect an endangered species here . But you have a Hog abundance here now , or an abundance on some farm fields. So why not hunt the hods so hunters can hunt which is why hunters support TWRA and trap shoot exterminate kill or what ever the hogs at the same time .

Locksley -

This video, Wild Hog Range Expansion, explains exactly why we need to get away from the sport of hog hunting. The recreational past-time of hunting hogs is leading to their increased spread across the landscape.

I know this is a difficult concept to understand because it sounds so contradictory but our agency is NOT against hog hunters, we are however against the "sport" of hog hunting. Most folks who hunt hogs are a tremendous asset to our agency. The problem is that by elevating hogs to a big game animal and giving them the status of a "trohy" or "fun" animal to hunt has caused people to WANT to hunt them. With this desire to hunt hogs comes the expectation that we need hogs on the landscape. Not only that, but many folks want hogs in huntable numbers or in areas that are devoid of hogs. Hence, many unscrupulous individuals have took it upon themselves to improve their hog hunting opportunities by releasing them on the landscape.

This is what we are trying to reverse. We don't want people to think hogs are a fun animal that needs to be hunted. We want them to become a reviled animal that needs to be exterminated.

The hunting is what is important here because we are hunters and we want to hunt , not waste our money on hiring someone to do what we as hunters are suppose to be allowed to do.

Locksley -

I couldn't agree more that hunting is important but justifying it because "hunters want to hunt" is an excuse that our agency simply can not use as a sole justification for season. We manage all the resources, not just hogs, not just deer, not just fish (etc.). We limit, reduce, and even eliminate hunting privileges all the time. Last year we completely eliminated fall turkey hunting opportunities in West TN counties, we have reduced deer bag limits, we have even closed bear seasons entirely for a number of years. We recommend these actions when we feel the closure will be a benefit to the resource. The hog regulations are no different. We are recommending these actions for the benefit of the resource, that is, ALL resources except hogs. We want hogs dead because of their negative impacts on our native plant and animal resources. If we close sport hog hunting and liberalize methods for folks wanting to kill hogs on private property and we see a benefit to other species because hog populations are brought under control, then we have done our job.

Excellent question.

TWRA is not alone in our fight against hogs. We have been working with other state agencies and NGOs in taking up the fight against this invasive species. There has recently been an MOU signed that unifies us all in our efforts to eradicate hogs. So far it has been signed by the TN Department of Agriculture, TN Farm Bureau, TN Department of Health, TN Pork Producers, TN Association of Soil Conservation Districts, TN Soybean Association, and Tennessee Wildlife Federation.

Did Farm Bureau want all hog hunting stopped or did they just want more rights for the land owners? I know at the meeting in Crossville the Farm Bureau rep. that was there stated that they didn't want any part of stopping sport hog hunting but wanted the landowners to have more options on there property to remove hogs.

I understand closing hunting to protect an endangered species here . But you have a Hog abundance here now , or an abundance on some farm fields. So why not hunt the hods so hunters can hunt which is why hunters support TWRA and trap shoot exterminate kill or what ever the hogs at the same time . Do both trap and hunt shoot eat hogs.
If my grandfathers neighbors were still around they would be eating high on the Hog right now , with all these hogs needing eating.
The farm bureau stopped Elk hunting in TN once as I remember , so are these family farmers that have owned the land for generations or are they big commercial farms new to Tennessee tht care only for gold .

Farm Bureau wasn't around when the last elk kill recording in Tn back in the 1800's. Thw SM.Elk Foundation, TWRA and others reintroduced elk BACK into Tennessee a while ago. Unless you are in your early teens...... ya might have seen it on TV and the News....................

I AM WELL AWARE OF WHEN ELK WERE FINALLY INTRODUCED BACK INTO TENNESSEE.I am older than most of you can imagine and I was trying to get to the one meeting held in Middle Tennessee the back side of no-where that Farm Bureau manipulated and had held there so they could fill the room with naves and foolish farmers in order to shout down anyone wanting hunting of Elk in the state of Tennessee . Soon the Farm Bureau and Tyson chicken and their Wall-Mart Arkansas gang will outlaw all ELK DEER and HOGS as then you would have nothing to eat but the garbage they want you to eat.

The mass killer of big game is now good but the hunter is bad because he kills Deer and ELK and Hogs .Humm it sounds like a blast from the past the difference was that the nazies killed people the conservationist kill Elk and deer on what some how became a Federal park , and now we hear that we are to allow mass slaughterers of Hogs because the men we have now are not men enough to hunt them and kill them for food. YEA I am old now and have seen men become despised because they hunt, when once all hunters were excepted as long as they loved Tennessee and conservation. Now conservation has become mass genocidal killing of game animals whether it be to get rid of CWD or Mad Cow disease or just to kill to please the commercial killers that now call themselves farmers.

There should be no so called farming of Deer and Elk , for the so called farmers have become just bigger and bigger killers of farm animals . The farmers now just feed and hold someone else s chickens till the big corporation calls time to call due the loan. The big corporation now will make due the state they seek to control to do there bidding for loans now called due.
Hog hunters first then Elk hunters time will be due . Then Deer hunters will be due when they are few.. e]

I would think Tennessee hunters are more true conservationist than some states .

HAHA. Thats funny.

There were some true sportsmen in Tennessee once.

There were some true sportsmen in Tennessee once and there were men that could hunt and kill just fine they needed no killers to lay wast food to be left to rot on the ground. Leaving food to rot is how the hid killers killed the buff .