timber thinning...

[pass-thru]

I've got 8-10 acres of loblolly pines, some were planted in '89 and some in '94. They're overdue for thinning. I have been working with a local forester to get them cut. It's actually somewhat difficult to get it done because it's small acreage.

Anyway at the back corner of our property is 1-2 acres of mature cedar. I surprised when the forester asked if I wanted them cut....didn't know there was market for them. He said they would chip them and sell them to a power plant for fuel wood. Am I better off having them cut....or leaving them for the turkeys to roost in? Is there any benefit to 1-2 acres of clear cut?

Also, in thinning the pines, is there a particular percentage that I should have cut to maximize deer attraction? Anything I should avoid?

 

[MickThompson]

As far as the pines go, get as much light in as you can. The heavier the thinning, the better. Light=browse and cover on the ground for deer. Light also improves nesting and brood cover for turkeys. I wouldn't think cedars would be top priority as roost trees for turkeys, but I have been wrong before.

 

[BlountArrow]

My 2 cents in the cedar after TWRA biologist visited my property:
He specifically recommended not keeping cedars that were more than 15' tall if I was targeting to improve my habitat for deer and turkey. Deer browse on young cedars as you probably know and they seem to find them favorable for rubs.

Similarly, I rarely have seen turkeys roosting in cedars. Not to say they don't in certain areas/situations but I'm just not seeing it on the places I hunt.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Personally, cedars are at the top of my list for removal. I use them for brushpiles, to help slow erosion in ditches/gullies, and for beams or posts. There may indeed be a specialty market for cedar but you might have to really shop it around to find a buyer.

One more thought: You might have better luck with small blocks of timber being done by mule/horse loggers rather than the big equipment guys.

 

[BSK]

Much depends on the size/age of the cedars. Cedar thickets are highly attractive to deer during periods of cold and winter precipitation. They block wind and rain and provide an environment of slightly warmer temperatures. In essence, they are a high-quality bedding cover in winter, IF they are not too mature.

What do you want from the pine area? If you would like to improve the habitat for deer/turkey, then thin them so that adjacent trees are not intermixing their canopies. In essence, each tree is isolated from neighboring trees. This allows sunlight on the ground and the growth of important plants down at ground-wildlife's level.

 

[landman]

If your looking for deer habitat I would thin every 3rd row, and for money too. If the cedars are tall enough to hunt out of Id leave them, you could have enough pines clear cut to have food plot right in front of cedar too, but Id leave the cedars

 

[pass-thru]

Here's a pic to give a better idea of the property, just under 100 acres. The loblolly is outlined in red....about 8 acres on one side of the highway...another 2 on the other side but they probably won't be able to cut that. The stand of cedars is in blue...it may be closer to 3 acres. They are large enough so that you can walk through in the open with good visibility. The purple is little food plots that I have in imperial clover, maybe 1.5 acres altogether. The pink X's are my 3 best treestands. One is backed right up to the cedars. You can't tell by the pic but the property is hilly with some steep terrain. Black line on the left is the property line.

The turkey's may not roost in the actual cedars, but they definatley roost in the oaks directly around the cedars.

The fields where I don't have plots are cut for hay and I really don't have the option to put in more plots. The hardwoods were thinned heavily 12 years ago. Surrounding properties were clear cut 10 and 15 years ago. Due to all the cutting, we have had a ton of deer. But that benefit is drying up now that the new forest is getting bigger. That's one of the reason I've put off thinning the pines this long. Still lots of good oaks on my property and when the acorns are thick we have a lot of deer.

Now I would like to get some fresh habitat stimulation. Hopefully thinning the pines will help for a few years. I guess with this in mind cutting those cedars may be a plus.

 

[Jarred525]

My 2 cents in the cedar after TWRA biologist visited my property:
He specifically recommended not keeping cedars that were more than 15' tall if I was targeting to improve my habitat for deer and turkey. Deer browse on young cedars as you probably know and they seem to find them favorable for rubs.

Similarly, I rarely have seen turkeys roosting in cedars. Not to say they don't in certain areas/situations but I'm just not seeing it on the places I hunt.

X2

 

[BSK]

Again, personally, I would keep those cedars IF you are thinning the pines. Cedar thickets are a unique habitat that is highly preferred by deer in certain circumstances. No other habitat on the property is going to fill the same niche.

The one exception would be if the cedars are very mature. Then I would lightly thin the cedars, but I certainly wouldn't remove them or thin them so heavily that they no long provide a thermal/wind/precipitation barrier.

 

[BlountArrow]

Again, personally, I would keep those cedars IF you are thinning the pines. Cedar thickets are a unique habitat that is highly preferred by deer in certain circumstances. No other habitat on the property is going to fill the same niche.

The one exception would be if the cedars are very mature. Then I would lightly thin the cedars, but I certainly wouldn't remove them or thin them so heavily that they no long provide a thermal/wind/precipitation barrier.

You bring up a good point. When the biologist made recommendations to me to cut down cedars it's worth mentioning that I don't have actual cedar thickets. I just have some large cedars scattered here and there. I should have qualified my statement earlier with that additional info.

 

[Frank G]

Keep the cedars .........Jacque the woodcutter.

 

[pass-thru]

Thanks BSK. They are 50-60 years old. Heavy deer trails moving through them. I will see about just having them thinned out a bit.

 

[BSK]

Thanks BSK. They are 50-60 years old. Heavy deer trails moving through them. I will see about just having them thinned out a bit.

If you just cut cedars here and there (the biggest, oldest trees), that will create holes in the canopy that sunlight can filter through. That will produce enough regrowth to keep those cedars as security bedding cover without overly degrading the thermal protection.

 

[BSK]

I just have some large cedars scattered here and there.

Yeah, scattered, isolated cedars really don't provide any benefit. It takes high density cedar groves to provide thermal protection.

 

[pass-thru]

Looks like I've got somebody to cut, probably get both sides of the road too. Should be cut late time spring.

 

[pass-thru]

Cutting should finally begin in the next few weeks....they have started marking the timber. Blue paint on tree means it stays, no paint means cut.

I walked through the cedars and there should be a good many left, though ones with broken tops or other problems are designated to cut. All the mature pines in the cedar will be cut. This will leave some openings.

What should I do in the openings. I could plant white pine, loblolly or shortleaf, or just leave them as is? I am leaning toward whitpines.

Here is a pic showing some of the marking in the cedars:

 

[treefarmer]

Ask your forester which trees will do well in the openings. It is surprising how poorly many trees will do on a site. I've had great success with certain wildlife trees in one county that barely survive in another county. If you want pine saw timber in 10 years let your forester guide you on how much to thin.

 

[pass-thru]

I know that shortleaf, loblolly and white pines will all grow well in the thinned area, because I planted them to provide cover in similar areas of thinned timber on this same property after a cut in 2002. But what I would like know, is which species would be best regarding the cedar thicket shelter for wildlife, or am I better doing nothing?

My forester has great knowledge on trees and commercial forest planning, but he does not have a wildlife background.

 

[BSK]

If you want to recreate the "type" of cover cedars provide, I would look to loblolly pine. They grow quickly (will grow into evergreen "cover" in about 4 to 5 years), and produce virtually the same type of micro-habitat deer seek out as cedars produce. The one downside to loblolly is how fast they grow. They can grow beyond the good cover stage by 12-15 years of age, depending on the site index.

 

[pass-thru]

I would like to preserve the cedar thicket as a cedar thicket as much as possible. There is always a lot of wildlife activity and sign in there. There is about 20% mature virginia pine in there now, but the crowns are above the cedar so all you see is the trunks walking through. Whatever pines I plant would have to reach for the sunlight as there will still be a lot of cedar left...I just hope the gaps are so big that I lose the current advantage altogether.