Timber management help BSK

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I was reading the new QDMA magazine last night and it had a good article on selective cutting on trees to allow more under growth in the woods for cover and browse. What was not mentioned is specifically which type of trees you should cut. I have a lot of �rough� timber on my property such as Bodok (Osage Orange), Hackberry, and Locust. I do know that deer eat Locust bean pods. I also have a lot of �buck brush�( I don�t know the proper name). It has small hard pink berries on it. I have cedars, but mostly scattered with no cedar thickets.What trees should I target to allow more sunlight and improve habitat? I have mature poplar trees and maple trees. There is not a lot of oak trees.

 

[BSK]

The big problem with making timber management recommendations is that "valuable" trees for wildlife may be very different than economically valuable trees. In essence, a forester is an expert on monetary timber values over time and will make recommendations with that in mind. A wildlife specialist will look at a forest from a wildlife production viewpoint, and will make recommendations based on that viewpoint, and often that viewpoint is completely contradictory to the foresters recommendations.

As a wildlife person, I make recommendations based on wildlife value alone, not longterm timber value. If we're talking about making small hand-cuttings to produce patches of natural regrowth, I recommend cutting trees of little wildlife value, and even some with wildlife value as long as that resource is not limited. For instance, beech trees produce beechnuts, and turkey and deer eat beechnuts. However, the massive canopy of a mature beech tree blocks a huge amount of sunlight. As long as beech trees are not a limited resource on a property, I recommend cutting and killing some mature beeches because the removal of each individual tree opens a very large hole in the leaf canopy, creating a good-size patch of early-stage regrowth.

In addition, I'm going to recommend the removal of elms, some maples, and some Poplars. I would also recommed cutting patches of sourwood and some Mountain Chestnut Oak, as the huge acorns produced by the Mountain Chestnut are utilized little by deer (although they are used by squirrel).

Again, those recommendations are for completely cutting down trees to produce patches of natural regrowth.

Now if creating "living" regrowth from hinge-cut trees is the goal, then focus on maples, as new maple sprouts are fairly well utilized by deer in winter. In addition, young hinge-cut red and white oaks sprouts are highly preferred, but do you really want to lose young white and red oaks? Poplar saplings are much lower on the preference list, but are used.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Do I need to eliminate the Bodoks? I do plan to do some hinge cutting, but other than cover, is hinged cutting hackberrys and cedars a waste of time?
Timber value is not a big concern to me, because I do not plan to harvest tikmber for money. Thanks, your input is greatly appreciated.

P.S. The Iowa buck in the QDMA that you aged at 2.5 is an amazing deer! It is hard to comprehend that he is so young. He looks like he is not healthy.

 

[BSK]

Hinge-cutting cedars would provide no food value, as deer only eat cedar as a food of last resort. Hackberry is occassionally used as a food source. But if my primary goal was food production through hinge-cutting, I would focus on maples.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

What about the Bodoks?

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Thanks for asking this HH. Im in the same situation, I just have a few different types of trees than you. I have large numbers of Beech, Maple, and Poplar. What Im figuring right now is to get rid of most of the maple and keep the remainder for pulpwood in the future. With the Poplar, Im going to keep all of it because they are only about 10 years out from saw logs. With the Beech, I am really unsure what to do, most of them are massive and hollow, but they are providing nuts for wildlife. My situation is different from yours in that Im interested in not only wildlife management but also timber management for a profit.

 

[BSK]

As far as I know, deer don't eat Osage Orange leaves as browse (although they will eat the fruit), so I would cut some of them completely and allow natural regeneration instead of hinge-cutting them.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

On the Osage Orange trees that I do not want to regenerate, can I "paint" the stump with round up, or does it need to be warm for the Round up to work?

 

[BSK]

Round-up works best when the plant is actively growing, but painting now can't hurt. Let us know how much stump kill you get if you do it now.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I plan on cutting some in the next week. I am using GLY-4. I will let you know.

 

[Chaneylake]

round-up works thru green folage the best. leaves taking chemical from leaf to root system and killing plant from root up.
in our area, we have had better luck with all type trees by apply round-up after the sap has quit rising in the spring. some have had even better luck in the fall, applying round-up just before the sap starts to fall. this seems to take it to the root system better. everyone of us had a hard time making round-up work last summer, due to the drought conditions, plants just were not taking the chemical to the root system

have heard of some drilling unwanted trees with cordless drill and injecting round-up straight in tree. do not have any reports as to how well this is working.

 

[BSK]

have heard of some drilling unwanted trees with cordless drill and injecting round-up straight in tree. do not have any reports as to how well this is working.

This is very similar to "hack-and-squirt" techniques. I find this works best in late summer and early fall (late August through early October).

 

[Chaneylake]

yes, when the sap is falling in the tree, it takes the chemical to the roots better.

 

[Chaneylake]

Hillbilly Hunter,

what is the rate of GLY-4 that you are applying.

 

[Chaneylake]

yes, we are talking about same chemical, i hope, thanks anyway

 

[TNCharlie]

...With the Beech, I am really unsure what to do, most of them are massive and hollow, but they are providing nuts for wildlife.

Another thing to consider about those beech trees is their usefulness for a variety of critters. Old, mature, rotting trees provide lots of den opportunities. I know that you are primarily interested in deer, but I also like to have an overall "wildlife friendly" place.

And let me be quick to give a disclaimer. I rank at whatever is below amatuer, so take my words with a large grain of salt.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

He my have meant GLY41 generic roundup.

No, I meant GLY-4. It is the same thing as Round Up. Round Up lost thier patent rights. It is just as good and WAY cheaper.


http://www.ourcoop.com/tfccpsaex05/default.aspx

 

[BSK]

...With the Beech, I am really unsure what to do, most of them are massive and hollow, but they are providing nuts for wildlife.

Another thing to consider about those beech trees is their usefulness for a variety of critters. Old, mature, rotting trees provide lots of den opportunities. I know that you are primarily interested in deer, but I also like to have an overall "wildlife friendly" place.

And let me be quick to give a disclaimer. I rank at whatever is below amatuer, so take my words with a large grain of salt.

You're absolutely correct TNCharlie. That's why I don't remove all the mature beeches, just some of them. If mature beeches were a limited resource, I probably wouldn't remove any of them. They do have tremendous wildlife value as cavity trees, and turkey are major consumers of beechnuts.

You also bring up the very important point that management techniques must be geared towards what you want to accomplish. Are you interested in just one or two wildlife species, or are you looking at a more over-all wildlife friendly approach. The techniques used will be different depending on what you are trying to produce for whom.

 

[Chaneylake]

newer versions of round-up, like the weather max, are more effective, especially when applied with threat of rain. the weather max needs only about 30 minutes on veg. and rain will not effect it. monsanto has just started advertising their newest version on tv.

the generic works just as well as the latest version, yes it is cheaper, generic version does require a surfactant to be added to it, have not done a cost comparison yet

 

[deerchaser007]

Steven,.. on those massive beech trees,. cutting them may not be possible anyway,. maybe you should girdle them and kill them and leave them standing. It will serve the same purpose and let light to the ground. Besides,. one thing that aggrevates me about beech is if you cut it,.. hundreds pop up around were you cut. Then you have to hack and squirt.

For all of you looking to make some openings or clearings and wondering what trees to cut,.. if you have sumacs on your place ,.. cut them and let the small ones come in. Deer browse is huge on this in the summer and early fall. These trees are worthless and a nusance when they get to tall. The trees rooting system is not good,.. causing it to blow over and create a mess all the time. Plus,. the tree is so soft ,. its very easily broken. So cutting them is very important.These trees are a dark grey , smooth barked tree ,.. the leaves resemble a palm tree. Deer love to rub on these trees. When they are small,.. they are tannish colored with palm leaves and almost rubbery like.
Plus,. keep in mind,.. if you are allready cutting anyways,.. if you can get the wood out and its good hardwoods like hackberry,maple,oak,etc you can cut it in 18 to 20 inch blocks and make money from firewood selling. If you are in cedars ,.. cut them in 6 ft sections and sell them for fence post. You can help your wildlife ,. but while your there,.. put some money in your pocket for other projects like plot seed or dozer work or tractor implements,.. anything.

 

[BSK]

I wouldn't even try and girdle a beech. I would hack and squirt it.

 

[Swampster]

Steven - I would say leave the beech if you can. Kill them if you need the light, but in most wooded areas there is a shortage of standing large hollow trees. Beech are a good source for this and that kind of shelter it used by a large variety of animals. The same can be said for old sycamore. I don't usually like sycamore, but I won't put older ones on the ground for that reason.

 

[BSK]

Just remember that mature oaks are not the final stage of a local climax forest. If you leave a TN hardwood forest alone long enough, beech will become the dominant tree, not oak.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

In addition, I'm going to recommend the removal of elms, some maples, and some Poplars. I would also recommed cutting patches of sourwood and some Mountain Chestnut Oak, as the huge acorns produced by the Mountain Chestnut are utilized little by deer (although they are used by squirrel).

Again, those recommendations are for completely cutting down trees to produce patches of natural regrowth.

BSK,
Mountain Chestnut oak are utilized heavily in my area until the white oaks start to fall. The Chestnut oak usually start falling about 2 weeks before the white okas. They are great for opening week of bow season.

 

[BSK]

In addition, I'm going to recommend the removal of elms, some maples, and some Poplars. I would also recommed cutting patches of sourwood and some Mountain Chestnut Oak, as the huge acorns produced by the Mountain Chestnut are utilized little by deer (although they are used by squirrel).

Again, those recommendations are for completely cutting down trees to produce patches of natural regrowth.

BSK,
Mountain Chestnut oak are utilized heavily in my area until the white oaks start to fall. The Chestnut oak usually start falling about 2 weeks before the white okas. They are great for opening week of bow season.

I've heard that before 8 Points Or Better, but usually from East TN hunters. Personally, I've rarely found a Mountain Chestnut Oak acorn in a deer's stomach. But it's not at all uncommon to see different feeding preferences in different areas.

 

[Chaneylake]

Just remember that mature oaks are not the final stage of a local climax forest. If you leave a TN hardwood forest alone long enough, beech will become the dominant tree, not oak.

BSK,
is that not more true in areas that do not flood vs areas in natural flood plain, i know of but 1 beech tree in the Chaney lake area, and its on an indian mound on the adjoining property. Chaney and all joining properties do not have any beech trees what so ever, Chaney has been on select cut management for over 80 years now, i know that 80 years is not that much time. was curious where the info came from.

 

[BSK]

Correct chaneylake. In the anaerobic soil conditions of a swamp, you will have a different species dominance in a climax forest situation.

 

[Chaneylake]

one can go about 12 miles up hatchie river from chaney and all the ridges in flood plain have numerous beech trees, but in same area outside flood plain, no beech trees