Thoughts on spring bag limits...

[catman529]

This year we killed 31,448 birds statewide. Only 12.9% were jakes. If the limit had been reduced to three this year, that would have saved 980 birds or 3.1% of the total harvest (even less of the total male population). If the limit was 2, that would have saved 9.2% of the total harvest.

So who here thinks that killing 9 percent of breeding males from the population, after peak breeding, is a legitimate contributing factor to the statewide decline? Who thinks that cutting the limit back to 2 will actually make a noticeable difference? Now before you say that you know of a farm where X amount of hunters kill multiple birds each every year and have decimated the turkeys, keep in mind that the number of hunters on a parcel of private land is largely out of TWRA's control, and that is the responsibility of the landowner and the people who overhunt the property to limit what they kill, not the statewide bag limit.

Here's what I'm thinking... And if you asked me this 2 years ago, I would never have said it - we might need to cut back or even close the fall season for a few years. I'd like to be able to kill just 1 bird in the fall - a 1 bearded bird limit in October would be ok with me. But the hens do need a break in a lot of areas. Maybe we can close it for a few years and open up a much more restricted either sex season once numbers are back up to what they should be. I still know places where I see enough turkeys I would still shoot a hen for thanksgiving and not feel bad about it. But I also won't complain if they have to close the fall season for a while to help the state as a whole.

Another problem I've noticed is that different parts of the state fluctuate so badly that a fixed limit in the spring pretty much doesn't work. I've seen it suggested here that areas south of hwy 64 need to be shut down for a few years, and a lot of west TN has never had really good numbers. But most other areas that aren't suffering and aren't pounded by hunters (I will bring up public land in a minute) can do perfectly fine with a 4-bird limit. Most people don't even kill 3 as the data shows.

Outlaw decoys to save birds? You may know some guys who sit behind Pretty Boy and kill 4 birds each every year on the same farm, but does that represent TN turkey hunters as a whole? So many more people sit by the decoys and see nothing, or watch turkeys run away from the dekes, and many don't have enough time to hunt and tag out, and I'd be willing to bet that the diehard run-and-gunners kill more limits than people who only use decoys.

Now public land...I've started seeing the intense pressure more this year than ever. A few things are to blame - turning several hundred acres of WMA over to the city, people coming up from southern middle TN counties, and people talking about their success on WMA X Y and Z on the Internet (I am guilty of that). Also magazines telling you where are good places to hunt our state.

I might be willing to go down to a 2 bird WMA limit, and would definitely like increased nonresident WMA fees. I'm not sure if changing the bag limit on WMAs would make any more difference than statewide though - perhaps the success rate past 2 birds is much lower on public land - so maybe the issue is in too many hunters on one area, and making it cost a lot more for tourists might help. if a WMA gets hunted so hard that turkey population suffers, then first close all fall and hen hunting and then consider restricting the WMA in question. The only limit I'd see making a difference would be a 1 bird limit and/or making it quota instead of statewide.

Also, you should never mention the WMA or even the county if you do mention killing a public land turkey or deer on the Internet. I have all but quit saying anything more than I kill one occasionally on public land. It's not worth bragging about only to see tags from many different states sitting in the parking spots of your favorite hunting grounds. Keep your hunting spots to yourself, I wish I didn't have to learn this the hard way.

Back to the statewide decline...does anyone else agree with me that the fall/hen hunting and other non-bag-limit issues pose a much more significant problem than a 4 bird over a 2 or 3 bird limit? Also the fixed spring limit. The statewide turkey flock is anything but consistent and I don't see how one size can fit all. Keep the spring limit at 4 but address certain counties and cut their spring limits way back, if that is practical for the agency to do. I'd hate to be cut back legally to only killing 2 toms if it's not even saving 10 percent of the breeding males in the whole state, after peak breeding is through.


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[Setterman]

I you have to reduce the spring bag limit, and to 3 is a joke. It has to be down to 2, your percentages are fairly arbitrary and probably don't indicate the impact it would have. I'm with you on the fall seasons and hens should be illegal all the time.

Let's say we use the above %, jakes are illegal and the limit is 2 birds. That's 20% less turkeys killed which I believe would be about 6,000 birds, that a bunch IMO

Outlawing decoys would save thousands upon thousands of turkeys. I personally know at least half a dozen hunters who killed all 4 birds and never made a call. These same hunters couldn't kill a single bird without the aid of a strutter or a fan. In addition, decoy and fan hunters are removing the most vocal and most dominant birds every year, therefore the amount of gobbling heard has to decline at some point.

Decoys IMO other then the unknown issues facing our turkeys (disease, recruitment) are the single worst thing happening in this sport. It's breeding a class of shooters and not hunters, and causing far too many birds to get killed by shooters who wouldn't have a chance otherwise.

 

[TNTomtaker01]

In with you on the shooters and not hunters! It took me a few years to kill a bird and in today's world one trip out with no success causes one to quit then they don't belong! Fewer people these days want to earn success. Also something else to think about if strutters equal success and we take that away there will be a few "turkey hunters" that will fall off the grid and quit, which will equal less pressure and more turkeys surviving.

 

[woodsman87]

Catman, that is very educated and thought out post. Well done.

I do not think reducing spring limit will have a significant impact, especially on private lands. I could see that may help on public lands. If they want to reduce the harvest numbers, first step I myself would take would be to shorten the season, followed by outlawing decoys, then outlaw afternoon hunting.
Fall hen killing should never be allowed, although the rare fall hunter killing a hen will not effect anything.
I still believe it is all about the nesting.

And about decoys, yes there are some birds that are scared of decoys, and some are nt at all scared of them. My argument with the full strut decoy people is that these guys would not even be hunting if they couldn't use b mobile or pretty boy and sit in their blind. They are nothing but deer hunters over running the sport.
This is why I do not like decoys, to me it is as lethal and unsporting as baiting. The occasional hen Jake decoy that a run and gunner uses seldomly doesn't bother me in the slightest, or a guy that is in his older years and cannot get around as well as he used to needs a decoy.

I've said it before, the decoy stuff that bothers me and that I do not consider teal turkey hunting is the guys that solely rely on a blind placed in a food plot with a strutter decoy 20 yards away. Nothing more than deer hunting over a pile of corn imo.

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[catman529]

Catman, that is very educated and thought out post. Well done.

I do not think reducing spring limit will have a significant impact, especially on private lands. I could see that may help on public lands. If they want to reduce the harvest numbers, first step I myself would take would be to shorten the season, followed by outlawing decoys, then outlaw afternoon hunting.
Fall hen killing should never be allowed, although the rare fall hunter killing a hen will not effect anything.
I still believe it is all about the nesting.

And about decoys, yes there are some birds that are scared of decoys, and some are nt at all scared of them. My argument with the full strut decoy people is that these guys would not even be hunting if they couldn't use b mobile or pretty boy and sit in their blind. They are nothing but deer hunters over running the sport.
This is why I do not like decoys, to me it is as lethal and unsporting as baiting. The occasional hen Jake decoy that a run and gunner uses seldomly doesn't bother me in the slightest, or a guy that is in his older years and cannot get around as well as he used to needs a decoy.

I've said it before, the decoy stuff that bothers me and that I do not consider teal turkey hunting is the guys that solely rely on a blind placed in a food plot with a strutter decoy 20 yards away. Nothing more than deer hunting over a pile of corn imo.

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I see what you're saying about the strutter. Not a very exciting way to hunt most of the time. I don't think it's my place to tell someone not to do it though, and I've done it once or twice although without success. People in other states, even KY hunt over corn piles legally. Not my type of hunting but definitely no guarantee of a kill either.

How many diehard turkey hunters rely only on a blind and strutter decoy? I doubt many people do it for too terribly long, it must get boring. There's always a bunch of hunters who get into it and then give up in a couple years. I think those of us who are obsessed and addicted to turkey hunting like to move, set up and call, and try different tactics. But anyway that's kind of off topic. I think if any limits need changed it's the either sex limits and some WMAs. And I can't support outlawing decoys even if I don't like to hunt that way. Doubt it's really hurting the population


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[Tennessee Lead]

I would be for opening our season a couple weeks later giving the opportunity for more hens to be bred. I would think that would benefit giving more percentage of hens a chance to successfully raise more poults which I would think should help the population rebound for some areas that are suffering. Outlaw any hen killing close fall seasons and outlaw Strutting decoys and Fanning. If that doesn't help then close season a couple years if it gets worse.
I haven't had the population decline in my areas that I hunt. Each year I hear and see many turkeys on my spots. This year was a very good year for hearing gobbling birds. That area has always held a high population of birds.
I would really hate to see us cut back on spring limits when shorting the season may help some areas that are in need of it.
My job doesn't allow me the time off or financially allow me to travel to other states like others are able to do. That would be a big disappointment knowing I could only kill 2 toms and I would be done hunting till the next season especially as much as we pay just to hunt in license fees.



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[Roost 1]

In a sense...shortening the season could have the same effect as reducing bag limit....I would be willing to bet that the majority of the hunters that killed 4 prolly hunted most of the season to do it....Lots of people only hunt on weekends, so just reduce the number of weekends in the season.....6 weeks it too long anyways....3 weeks is plenty.....I wish KY would shorten our season..

 

[TLRanger]

Catman, it is illegal to hunt turkeys using bait in KY.

 

[Gravey]

2 birds (no hens ever) and a shorter season would be fine with me.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Two bird limit. Maybe shorten the season a week on each end. DO NOT CLOSE IT TO AFTERNOON HUNTING, a lot of kids hunt after school that wouldn't get to hunt other wise. And no fall season.

 

[catman529]

Catman, it is illegal to hunt turkeys using bait in KY.

sorry I meant deer


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[Boll Weevil]

Back to the statewide decline...does anyone else agree with me that the fall/hen hunting and other non-bag-limit issues pose a much more significant problem than a 4 bird over a 2 or 3 bird limit?

Yes I agree and very good points made Catman.

Here's a scenario that is taking place right before our very eyes in MO. I hunt there, have for years, and have friends that hunt there so I'm not basing my hypothesis off something I Googled.

MO had an estimated 600,000 birds about 10 years ago; that estimate has now fallen to 300,000. During this period MO's harvest typically fell in the range of 41-45,000 turkeys although last year they killed 47k and this year 48k. 10 years ago, 48k would have been about 8% of the total population…today (because of the lower total population) it represents 16%. If they kill 48k next year and the population has since fallen to 250,000 that would be 19%. None of the above numbers include the 10-11,000 birds removed in the fall that will also not be a factor in the following spring's recruitment equation.

Jake harvest this year was a whopping 25%...twice what it is in TN. Some areas have so few adult birds (or the 1 or 2 that are there get wacked right off the bat) that folks are "forced" to shoot jakes lest they go home empty handed. 2 guys on one farm I know of killed their limit but it consisted of 1 gobbler and 3 jakes. Why? Because there were no adult birds to hunt and I honestly believe one of them would have gladly shot a bearded hen given the opportunity.

For the most part they aren't killing significantly fewer birds, but they are removing a greater percentage of the population. My guess is that it might take the average MO hunter more effort because there are fewer birds to chase...maybe even different tactics (this is where perhaps strutters and fanning comes into play)...but they're still killin'em. As one of my friends up there said, "We are literally shooting ourselves out of anything else to shoot."

We just can't keep killing the same NUMBER of turkeys (either hens or toms) with consecutive years of bad hatches, predator problems, disease, or whatever the cocktail of reasons are combining to keep recruitment rates so low. It absolutely defies logic. If it gets to where there's not enough gobblers to breed the available hens so they don't lay/nest at all…that's when we're in trouble and that's what I believe is happening in some areas (when we consider the question about gobbler limits).

In closing, and to your earlier point about hen harvest, the same logic applies.

 

[SKFOOTER]

2 birds (no hens ever) and a shorter season would be fine with me.

I agree with Gravey.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I would be willing to bet that the majority of the hunters that killed 4 prolly hunted most of the season to do it.

You beat me to it. Folks are still killing limits, they're just having to hunt harder/longer to do it. Shortening the season would likely have the same effect as reducing the limit. Agree 100%.

 

[woodsman87]

Do not reduce limit, keep it at four. You reduce harvest numbers by shortening the season.

Call my greedy, dont care, I like liberal bag limits if it is a viable option.

Boll weevil comments are spot on. High limits are fine when population keeps reloading itself with good hatches. Now we have had 7-8 years in a row of piss poor hatches, maybe time to cut back.

I do not see why they can not do brood surveys every fall in every area, and set limits according to zone and poult counts.

It obviously takes to much money or time to do that, because that is definitely the best way.

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[Mike Belt]

The priority is to restore turkey populations. That takes hens. Quit killing them. Period! It takes gobblers to breed the hens. They don't have to be just old gobblers. Jakes are capable of breeding but hunters prefer hunting the older birds. Want more of them? Quit shooting the hens and they'll give you more gobblers. Now, quit shooting all the gobblers. I'm more for reducing the limit than shortening the season. If taking 4 birds is crippling the bird population and you get into a bunch of birds you could take 4 in 4 days and therefore, negate the whole point of shortening the season. How'd you like a 3 week season and spring storms and rain wash out 2+ weeks of your season. Sometimes the weekends is the only time some can hunt and I've seen many times where the weather falls into a pattern of weekend rains. Keep the length of the season giving everyone ample opportunity to hunt but only allow 2 birds. Those 2 steps will put birds back in Tn.

 

[catman529]

The priority is to restore turkey populations. That takes hens. Quit killing them. Period! It takes gobblers to breed the hens. They don't have to be just old gobblers. Jakes are capable of breeding but hunters prefer hunting the older birds. Want more of them? Quit shooting the hens and they'll give you more gobblers. Now, quit shooting all the gobblers. I'm more for reducing the limit than shortening the season. If taking 4 birds is crippling the bird population and you get into a bunch of birds you could take 4 in 4 days and therefore, negate the whole point of shortening the season. How'd you like a 3 week season and spring storms and rain wash out 2+ weeks of your season. Sometimes the weekends is the only time some can hunt and I've seen many times where the weather falls into a pattern of weekend rains. Keep the length of the season giving everyone ample opportunity to hunt but only allow 2 birds. Those 2 steps will put birds back in Tn.

MO has a 2 bird limit and apparently they are on a decline as well. Putting hens off limits will do a lot more than a 2 gobbler limit. Sure you can get into a big flock and kill 4 birds in 4 days but is that the norm? How many people out of all 20,000+ successful hunters kill 4 in 4 days? I killed 4 in a week once but that was dumb luck and usually I go to the end of April or into May before I tag out, and I hunt a LOT.


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[Mike Belt]

Cat...I like getting out there. When I worked I could only hunt weekends. If it was pouring rain I didn't hunt. If it's pouring rain or anything comes up preventing anyone in the same boat from hunting 1 or 2 of their weekends their season is shot with a 3 week season. I'd rather be able to go and only kill 2 birds as opposed to possibly not getting to go at all. Maybe Ky's bird population is still declining with a 2 bird limit and a shorter season. I don't know because I don't hunt there. If it is, and ours, then maybe the only alternative is eliminating turkey season altogether until the situation can be corrected.

 

[catman529]

Cat...I like getting out there. When I worked I could only hunt weekends. If it was pouring rain I didn't hunt. If it's pouring rain or anything comes up preventing anyone in the same boat from hunting 1 or 2 of their weekends their season is shot with a 3 week season. I'd rather be able to go and only kill 2 birds as opposed to possibly not getting to go at all. Maybe Ky's bird population is still declining with a 2 bird limit and a shorter season. I don't know because I don't hunt there. If it is, and ours, then maybe the only alternative is eliminating turkey season altogether until the situation can be corrected.

I don't want a shorter season or a lower spring bag limit. Maybe a week shorter with a later start date for more undisturbed breeding, but the main thing I want to see is cut out hen hunting in most counties and relocate birds if needed.


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[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Cat...I like getting out there. When I worked I could only hunt weekends. If it was pouring rain I didn't hunt. If it's pouring rain or anything comes up preventing anyone in the same boat from hunting 1 or 2 of their weekends their season is shot with a 3 week season. I'd rather be able to go and only kill 2 birds as opposed to possibly not getting to go at all. Maybe Ky's bird population is still declining with a 2 bird limit and a shorter season. I don't know because I don't hunt there. If it is, and ours, then maybe the only alternative is eliminating turkey season altogether until the situation can be corrected.

I don't want a shorter season or a lower spring bag limit. Maybe a week shorter with a later start date for more undisturbed breeding, but the main thing I want to see is cut out hen hunting in most counties and relocate birds if needed.


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If we are to the point that we need to be relocateing birds, the tom limit definitely needs to be cut to 2 or less, no hens killed, and a shorter season.

 

[catman529]

Cat...I like getting out there. When I worked I could only hunt weekends. If it was pouring rain I didn't hunt. If it's pouring rain or anything comes up preventing anyone in the same boat from hunting 1 or 2 of their weekends their season is shot with a 3 week season. I'd rather be able to go and only kill 2 birds as opposed to possibly not getting to go at all. Maybe Ky's bird population is still declining with a 2 bird limit and a shorter season. I don't know because I don't hunt there. If it is, and ours, then maybe the only alternative is eliminating turkey season altogether until the situation can be corrected.

I don't want a shorter season or a lower spring bag limit. Maybe a week shorter with a later start date for more undisturbed breeding, but the main thing I want to see is cut out hen hunting in most counties and relocate birds if needed.


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If we are to the point that we need to be relocateing birds, the tom limit definitely needs to be cut to 2 or less, no hens killed, and a shorter season.

some places should have hunting closed or a 1 bird limit but many places still have plenty of birds. If Twra would transplant some birds from the good areas to the poor ones instead of selling them to Texas, that would help a lot.


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[MickThompson]

It seems that many on here agree that nesting/brooding is the issue- and I don't disagree. The harvest flattened off about the same time that our poults in the brood surveys bottomed out around 2 poults/hen. The question is then... What can be done? What should the state do?

1. Shorten the season
Shortening the season may well result in more hens being bred. But these days must come off the front end of the season- there isn't really a biological justification to take days from the end of the season. We would still see the same "rush" of harvest during the first 2 weeks of the season, but harvest would be delayed until mid April and hopefully the hens would all have been bred by then. How does this effect nesting success?

2. Reduce the bag limit
Reducing the bag limit may well reduce the number of birds an individual kills, but how many of them would turn around and take another hunter who is less skilled or experienced? This may well recruit new blood into the sport, but we may or may not reduce the # of birds taken (see TN vs KY thread). Turkeys range shift constantly, so unless you are on a very large tract, the birds you saved may not return to the property. I see this as a quality of hunt issue- i like hearing lots of gobbling birds and having a tough time deciding which one to chase too, and I have a spot that I quit hunting this year because it dried up and only held one bird who consistently pitched across property lines. I also have a rule that I won't take more than 1 bird off any farm I hunt a year, regardless of how many I am hearing.

3. Reduce/eliminate the fall season/hen killing
I can get behind this, and I think it might help some, but I don't think this will fix all the woes. I don't fall hunt either though, so I will readily give up this opportunity. I really think our turkeys are in a down cycle and will come back. I also didnt see a ton of "extra" hens. I think the most I ran into during the season was 4 with a single gobbler, and usually just 1 or a gobbler by himself.

4. Outlaw decoys
I don't hunt with them, but once again, this is a quality of hunt issue, not a brood issue. I didn't see a disproportionate gobbler to hen ratio, so it's hard for me to say that gobblers are being overharvested relative to the hens in the flock.

5. Outlaw Jake shooting
Once again, I see this is a quality of hunt issue. Also, % jakes in the harvest can be an important indicator to biologists that recruitment is less than desirable, so % jake harvest is a good canary in the coal mine.

6. Remove season/bag limit restrictions on nest predators
This is one I came up with on my own- I figure being able to legally trap and hunt raccoons and opossums during the nesting and brooding period wouldn't hurt turkey recruitment, but someone has to be willing to do it. Nest predators don't just get eggs- raccoons love to eat turkey just as much as we do, and are a pretty significant summer predator on hens and poults. And they are super abundant now too.

7. Provide the means to improve the habitat for turkey nesting and brooding
This one is really easy to overlook since it's going on largely after we've left the woods, but it is incredibly important to sustaining and growing a turkey flock. Big open woods are fun to hunt, but hard to hide a nest or brood in. Burning, proper use of herbicides, and forest management are your tools here. If you've got some odd spots that will grow a decent clover patch, that's great too, but you need to give your flock good habitat across your property from ridgetop to holler, and clover patches are very expensive to maintain at the scale needed to impact the turkey flock.

8. Restrict the spreading of chicken litter as fertilizer
It's got to go somewhere- anyone else got any good ideas? Also, this would fall outside of TWRA's juridiction, and would likely be a TN Dept of Ag or TN Dept of Environment and Conservation issue. This would probably require a change in state law- Ag is a powerful lobby, and it doesn't give a rip when wildlife starts costing farmers money.

9. Relocate birds to areas with lower populations
I think this is a little irresponsible at this time. We don't know for sure what is causing turkey flocks to decline locally, so why would you want to expose perfectly healthy birds in a stable population to disease/predators/ poor habitat etc that have caused the resident flock to crash or relocate?

Basically, the way i see it, the onus is on us, the hunters and land managers to improve our habitat, be responsible with our harvest, and, if need be, control our predator populations until the flock recovers.

 

[bandit3]

I agree with catman's earlier posts. Predator hunting and trapping can't hurt either and they're a load of fun.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Mick typed a lot of real good stuff...I agree with you sir.

In my mind a lot of this comes down to what we as hunters and land and habitat managers choose to do. I would argue that what's happening with all this dialogue is simply much needed education for land and habitat managers. Ain't knockin' nobody that might not have had all this Intel because there's so much to know and apply in practice...noone can reasonably be expected to get everything right the first time (or 2nd for that matter).

My guess is that noone told any of us half the stuff we somehow managed to learn from trial and error and error and error...from hunting turkeys to driving a car and everything in between. The State is learning too right alongside biologists and legislators and those of us toting the guns. The simple fact that we're even talking about what it takes to have a sustainable or growing population of birds is progress.

To be right honest, I'm encouraged by the fact that we're simply talking about. That's a start.

 

[MickThompson]

What's the spreading of chicken litter got to do with it?

There's been some discussion that spreading chicken litter is transmitting diseases from domestic poultry to wild birds that have never been exposed to them. It's a tough case to prove or disprove either way.

 

[letsgohunting]

It seems that many on here agree that nesting/brooding is the issue- and I don't disagree. The harvest flattened off about the same time that our poults in the brood surveys bottomed out around 2 poults/hen. The question is then... What can be done? What should the state do?

1. Shorten the season
Shortening the season may well result in more hens being bred. But these days must come off the front end of the season- there isn't really a biological justification to take days from the end of the season. We would still see the same "rush" of harvest during the first 2 weeks of the season, but harvest would be delayed until mid April and hopefully the hens would all have been bred by then. How does this effect nesting success?

2. Reduce the bag limit
Reducing the bag limit may well reduce the number of birds an individual kills, but how many of them would turn around and take another hunter who is less skilled or experienced? This may well recruit new blood into the sport, but we may or may not reduce the # of birds taken (see TN vs KY thread). Turkeys range shift constantly, so unless you are on a very large tract, the birds you saved may not return to the property. I see this as a quality of hunt issue- i like hearing lots of gobbling birds and having a tough time deciding which one to chase too, and I have a spot that I quit hunting this year because it dried up and only held one bird who consistently pitched across property lines. I also have a rule that I won't take more than 1 bird off any farm I hunt a year, regardless of how many I am hearing.

3. Reduce/eliminate the fall season/hen killing
I can get behind this, and I think it might help some, but I don't think this will fix all the woes. I don't fall hunt either though, so I will readily give up this opportunity. I really think our turkeys are in a down cycle and will come back. I also didnt see a ton of "extra" hens. I think the most I ran into during the season was 4 with a single gobbler, and usually just 1 or a gobbler by himself.

4. Outlaw decoys
I don't hunt with them, but once again, this is a quality of hunt issue, not a brood issue. I didn't see a disproportionate gobbler to hen ratio, so it's hard for me to say that gobblers are being overharvested relative to the hens in the flock.

5. Outlaw Jake shooting
Once again, I see this is a quality of hunt issue. Also, % jakes in the harvest can be an important indicator to biologists that recruitment is less than desirable, so % jake harvest is a good canary in the coal mine.

6. Remove season/bag limit restrictions on nest predators
This is one I came up with on my own- I figure being able to legally trap and hunt raccoons and opossums during the nesting and brooding period wouldn't hurt turkey recruitment, but someone has to be willing to do it. Nest predators don't just get eggs- raccoons love to eat turkey just as much as we do, and are a pretty significant summer predator on hens and poults. And they are super abundant now too.

7. Provide the means to improve the habitat for turkey nesting and brooding
This one is really easy to overlook since it's going on largely after we've left the woods, but it is incredibly important to sustaining and growing a turkey flock. Big open woods are fun to hunt, but hard to hide a nest or brood in. Burning, proper use of herbicides, and forest management are your tools here. If you've got some odd spots that will grow a decent clover patch, that's great too, but you need to give your flock good habitat across your property from ridgetop to holler, and clover patches are very expensive to maintain at the scale needed to impact the turkey flock.

8. Restrict the spreading of chicken litter as fertilizer
It's got to go somewhere- anyone else got any good ideas? Also, this would fall outside of TWRA's juridiction, and would likely be a TN Dept of Ag or TN Dept of Environment and Conservation issue. This would probably require a change in state law- Ag is a powerful lobby, and it doesn't give a rip when wildlife starts costing farmers money.

9. Relocate birds to areas with lower populations
I think this is a little irresponsible at this time. We don't know for sure what is causing turkey flocks to decline locally, so why would you want to expose perfectly healthy birds in a stable population to disease/predators/ poor habitat etc that have caused the resident flock to crash or relocate?

Basically, the way i see it, the onus is on us, the hunters and land managers to improve our habitat, be responsible with our harvest, and, if need be, control our predator populations until the flock recovers.

Nice post

 

[PalsPal]

2. Reduce the bag limit
Reducing the bag limit may well reduce the number of birds an individual kills, but how many of them would turn around and take another hunter who is less skilled or experienced? This may well recruit new blood into the sport, but we may or may not reduce the # of birds taken (see TN vs KY thread).

THAT is exactly what I would do, and an excellent point. I would be out there every day the season is open, even if I had to place an ad in the paper offering to take someone !

 

[TheLBLman]

2. Reduce the bag limit
Reducing the bag limit may well reduce the number of birds an individual kills, but how many of them would turn around and take another hunter who is less skilled or experienced? This may well recruit new blood into the sport, but we may or may not reduce the # of birds taken (see TN vs KY thread).

THAT is exactly what I would do, and an excellent point. I would be out there every day the season is open, even if I had to place an ad in the paper offering to take someone !

Whether we're talking deer buck limits or Tom turkeys, when a 3 or 4 deer/turkey limit is reduced to 2, the benefits are balanced between a larger number of hunters actually killing 1 or 2, and, a larger number of deer/turkey surviving the season. Because a larger number of bucks/turkeys do survive each year, the improvements (hunter success rate) become progressively better each year. Again, note KY's hunter success rate compared to TN. It's not all about the soil.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

Fall season didn't hurt my flock. I don't know anyone that had ever fall hunted around me. Goes for the entire county I'm in. Everyone is deer hunting.

My property and another 1200 acre property I've hunted used to have dozens, some years near 100 turkeys on each. Both had 12+ long beards every year. Neither has ever had a fall bird killed but both are almost void of turkeys Now. Fall hunting didn't do that here. Neither did a 4 bird limit.

 

[Roost 1]

2. Reduce the bag limit
Reducing the bag limit may well reduce the number of birds an individual kills, but how many of them would turn around and take another hunter who is less skilled or experienced? This may well recruit new blood into the sport, but we may or may not reduce the # of birds taken (see TN vs KY thread).

THAT is exactly what I would do, and an excellent point. I would be out there every day the season is open, even if I had to place an ad in the paper offering to take someone !

Then you should not complain or wonder why you don't have any gobblers...... :tu: