in Springville bottoms, high levels in bass and crappie. shellcracker and bluegill also had mercury but below the EPA trigger. i think they are having a meeting tonight for crappie fisherman in Paris and i think TDEC will also be present.
TDEC finds more Mercury in fish
- Thread starter WTM
- Start date
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
What a shame. Just in case there aren't any bodies of water yet that haven't been ruined, we're working on it! It's really disappointing that there are some lakes full of fish that are hazardous to eat.
Has anyone heard or does anyone know where the mercury is coming from?
I mean, I know NO business will be at fault or nothing but just curious.
I mean, I know NO business will be at fault or nothing but just curious.
JimFromTN
Well-Known Member
http://www.tennessee.gov/environment/news/23717
"There is no known direct discharge of mercury into the Big Sandy River. Atmospheric deposition accumulated in sediment is considered the most likely origin of the mercury in the fish."
I believe that means its a result of air pollution. I had to google it.
http://www.water-pollution.org.uk/atmospheric.html
Atmospheric deposition is the pollution of water caused by air pollution. In the atmosphere, water particles mix with carbon dioxide sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, this forms a weak acid. Air pollution means that water vapour absorbs more of these gases and becomes even more acidic.
"There is no known direct discharge of mercury into the Big Sandy River. Atmospheric deposition accumulated in sediment is considered the most likely origin of the mercury in the fish."
I believe that means its a result of air pollution. I had to google it.
http://www.water-pollution.org.uk/atmospheric.html
Atmospheric deposition is the pollution of water caused by air pollution. In the atmosphere, water particles mix with carbon dioxide sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, this forms a weak acid. Air pollution means that water vapour absorbs more of these gases and becomes even more acidic.
Hmmm,
Very interesting.
Thanks.
Very interesting.
Thanks.
yeah supposedly comes out of the air. the only other section of river is from the Duck to i40 bridge for mercury in bass. it could be worse, i guess, i could live in east tenn.
indont know how the crappie meeting turned out, probably the same outcome as years past. we will see if there are any changes when the commission meets to set limits and what not.
indont know how the crappie meeting turned out, probably the same outcome as years past. we will see if there are any changes when the commission meets to set limits and what not.
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
WTM":bqh03vv7 said:
Yea where there are millions of acres of beautiful land to hunt but almost every body of water is a calculated risk to eat fish out of. It's such a shame.
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
Makes you wonder what might be accumulating in game and livestock too.
Vermin93
Well-Known Member
Isn't coal-powered energy awesome?
Meanwhile, many conservative sportsmen ridicule investments in clean, renewable energy. Classic case of shooting oneself in the foot out of stubbornness. I hope they enjoy the polluted fishing.
This is nothing new. Google "lakes mercury coal" and you can read all about it. It's really bad in China where they burn huge amounts of coal.
https://www.facebook.com/Wmufwlzk/posts/1016883075093896
Denton said in 35 years of testing fish for mercury levels in Tennessee waters this is the first time crappie has been above the .3 trigger point. He said it's not likely killing the fish and there is no evidence of historical mercury discharge in the area. In TDEC's best judgement, the mercury levels in the fish comes from the air thru the burning of coal.
Meanwhile, many conservative sportsmen ridicule investments in clean, renewable energy. Classic case of shooting oneself in the foot out of stubbornness. I hope they enjoy the polluted fishing.
This is nothing new. Google "lakes mercury coal" and you can read all about it. It's really bad in China where they burn huge amounts of coal.
https://www.facebook.com/Wmufwlzk/posts/1016883075093896
Denton said in 35 years of testing fish for mercury levels in Tennessee waters this is the first time crappie has been above the .3 trigger point. He said it's not likely killing the fish and there is no evidence of historical mercury discharge in the area. In TDEC's best judgement, the mercury levels in the fish comes from the air thru the burning of coal.
JimFromTN
Well-Known Member
MickThompson":53bohblb said:
Seems like resident waterfowl would be directly affected. I used to hunt the wolf river in the Memphis city limits. I later found out I probably should not have been touching the water much less eating the ducks out of there.
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
JimFromTN":rxu4av0o said:
I've read that's why many duck hunters won't eat shovelers. They've been seen feeding in some nasty stuff, like sewage ponds. I hunted in Arkansas this past season and killed plenty of them. They were resident ducks of that farm so they are just fine to eat. A rice fed shoveler tastes like a rice fed mallard, just isn't as big.
Man we have really got to make some changes in the industries that are ruining our wildlife habitats. I now wonder about all the striped bass I ate from below the steam plant after we found out about all the crap found in that canal. I'm not anti coal or anti manufacturing at all. It would be silly for me to be against manufacturing facilities in my line of work, they are my customers as a controls engineer, but in another 100 years there isn't going to be a safe body of water in this country aside from hiking hundreds of miles into the mountains and fishing small ponds and rivers if this keeps up.
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
Vermin93":37bajcjl said:
I'd definitely consider myself as Conservative as they come but as an outdoorsman it sickens me to see our waters and woods ruined by pollution. This is where we eat fish from and eat animals from, we can't let it get ruined. I don't have the solution but I am definitely more open to clean energy alternatives than many in my camp are.
kentuckylakebuck
Well-Known Member
god, i feel like al gore is running for something again!?!?!?!?
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
Nobody's talking about that goofball. He's a scam artist and I like him about as much as I like the fact that I live near beautiful lakes which have fish contaminant warnings.
Vermin93
Well-Known Member
kentuckylakebuck":2capqpa0 said:
^^^^^ Perfect example of what I'm talking about with sportsmen getting the environment they deserve. Enjoy the mercury. :tu:
In TDEC's best judgement, the mercury levels in the fish comes from the air thru the burning of coal.
kentuckylakebuck
Well-Known Member
if this mercury comes from the air, from burning coal, please explain to me why the springville bottom crappie have dangerous amounts of mercury in them but the ones across the levy do not?Vermin93":3jgga4gz said:
Vermin93
Well-Known Member
kentuckylakebuck":1g838tje said:
There's no "if" about it, but that's a good question for Hal Herring at Field & Stream.
Field and Stream Report: The Truth about Mercury and the Fish You Eat
http://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...m-report-truth-about-mercury-and-fish-you-eat
The good news is studies have shown that fish can bounce back relatively quickly when mercury emissions from power plants are decreased.
Success story: Cleaner bluefish show effectiveness of US coal regulations, study says
http://www.environmentalhealthnews....ic-ocean-mercury-safe-eat-coal-plants-fillets
kentuckylakebuck
Well-Known Member
that still doesnt answer my question: how are the fish on one side of the levy contaminated and not the other? how are the fish in the mouth of the big sandy contaminated, but not a 1/4 mile down river and then contaminated again another mile down river? what were the trigger levels 5 years ago vs the trigger levels today? I'm not trying to be a prick or the perfect example, these are the questions that don't seem to be getting answered around here? maybe i missed it ,but Hal didn't qiuet answer these questions for me?
well, i didnt post this to start a whirl wind of political discussion. i posted it so that folks that havent heard about the new areas could be informed. for those who live in Camden, pretty much knows where it is coming from. we have had warer pollution problems for the last 10 years and i will almost guarantee that there will be more findings of mercury from Cypress creek(where the mouth dumps into the river at Camden Bottoms). it has been found, tested and proven that Cypress creek, underground aquafers, private wells and wetland bottoms have been contaminated with high levels of mercury for years. and yes, from several independent tests it was caused from chert gravel mining and was compunded and made worse by the dumping of fly ash into the newly constructed waste disposal site aka Bivens industrial landfill, which resides only a few hundred feet from Cypress Creek. then compunded further by the opening of an aluminum dross landfill in on of the abandoned chert gravel pits, which also resides only a few hundred feet. then you have Magpro(a company that claimed bankrupt in California because of a $2billion EPA cleanup), and processes metal slag and the west Camden landfill, which both resides alongside a feeder creek that dumps into Cypress.
you can look all of this up on the net and how many times TDEC has come in tested and did nothing but lay a couple of thousand dollar fines and it was back to business as uaual. so when TDEC said it is coing out of the air i had to laugh. Mercury is a heavy metal, it does not vaporized into the air or dissolved in the rain droplets. it is leached into the water table and deposited in the silt and sediment and is consumed by fish. this is how you can find mercury in some of the bays and not others. now keep in mind that TDEC does not sample the entire lake system only a certain percentage at a time.
here are some links:
http://m.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a ... id=3309079
http://www.environmentalintegrity.org/n ... evised.pdf
http://astswmo.org/Files/Policies_and_P ... mments.pdf
http://environment-online.state.tn.us:8 ... W_ID:23927
http://www.homefacts.com/environmentalh ... amden.html
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u83smk_nNJU
pay close attention to the last video, Halaco is the company that moved from california and is now located in Camden beside the Cypress creek. this is why i moved 10 miles south of Camden because of severe headaches and sinus problems from the smoke in the middle of the night(they only operate the smelters after midnight and shut them down before 5am.
you can look all of this up on the net and how many times TDEC has come in tested and did nothing but lay a couple of thousand dollar fines and it was back to business as uaual. so when TDEC said it is coing out of the air i had to laugh. Mercury is a heavy metal, it does not vaporized into the air or dissolved in the rain droplets. it is leached into the water table and deposited in the silt and sediment and is consumed by fish. this is how you can find mercury in some of the bays and not others. now keep in mind that TDEC does not sample the entire lake system only a certain percentage at a time.
here are some links:
http://m.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a ... id=3309079
http://www.environmentalintegrity.org/n ... evised.pdf
http://astswmo.org/Files/Policies_and_P ... mments.pdf
http://environment-online.state.tn.us:8 ... W_ID:23927
http://www.homefacts.com/environmentalh ... amden.html
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u83smk_nNJU
pay close attention to the last video, Halaco is the company that moved from california and is now located in Camden beside the Cypress creek. this is why i moved 10 miles south of Camden because of severe headaches and sinus problems from the smoke in the middle of the night(they only operate the smelters after midnight and shut them down before 5am.
kentuckylakebuck
Well-Known Member
THANK YOU!!! Somebody finally had the balls to tell the truth!!! God bless you friend! We live here and we are not foolish enough to believe that this all just falls from the sky, it's either bullsht or there is a contributing factor! It isnt just falling out of the sky! Thank you again!
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
Just like the lovely landfill we have in Murfreesboro just upstream from the Walter Hill Dam. That stretch of the Stones has some quality fish of all species but I'm worried about eating anything from there because of it. The landfill just about borders the river as it keeps expanding.
Vermin93":252cvxyt said:
with all due respect to Mr Denton, he is wrong. here is the exerpt from the findings from the Trans Ash in Camden in 2010.
At the Trans-Ash Landfill there was on-site damage, as well as off-site damage to surface water, groundwater, and two private residential drinking water wells:
After complaints by a resident living near the Trans-Ash landfill, the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation tested private wells and found mercury concentrations ranging from 0.011 to 0.013 mg/L – 5.5 to 6.5 times higher than the primary MCL. In July 2009, U.S. EPA confirmed mercury levels and initiated Emergency Removal Action to connect the residence to the Camden city water supply. Sampling data shows that the sediment pond has high concentrations of mercury (up to .28 mg/kg) and on-site groundwater has high concentrations of boron (up to 9.39 mg/L) and sulfate (up to 739 mg/L). [see table on page xxi.]
i know i was at the commission meeting when they were all there laying it out for everyone. now if you read the study from the kingston, the 18 month sediment study revealed that mercury levels were 3-4 times higher than acceptable MCL's down stream and upstream of the spill was unaffected. get where i am going. it follows the current.
Mercury can begin to give off vapor at even room temperature.
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
PickettSFHunter":2yhim1gs said:
yes and i stand corrected. bit seems that oxidized mercury is exhausted thru the stack and into the air and goes thru a reaction which changes it into methylmercury which is found in fish as well. and this type of mercury is water soluble. appx 50 tons go thru the stacks and 17 tons goes to landfills.
on a good note just read TVA future projection and due to slow growth for demand they are only building gas fired turbines and uprating nuke output, at least until 2030. so maybe in 15 years of clean energy production then hopefully it can correct itself.
Vermin93
Well-Known Member
WTM":1depe4w2 said:
Right on, brother. You're speaking my language. :super:
Would you mind posting that in the political forum? :lol:
WTM":3i3a6eim said:
The J'ville TVA plant is putting out less mercury than it ever has. A new injection system has cut the mercury emissions by roughly 50%. No worries from that plant though, it will be shut down December 2017.
thats because they have shut down most of the coal fired units too, like you said the last one will be shut down in 2017. But according to TVA they will be producing 87 megawatts and producing steam for Chemours. they are not shutting the plant down but turning up 20 gas fired generators in jan 2018 to replace the coal fired units. according to them they are more effecient and cleaner than the older units.
im not a tree hugging caring more for a gorilla more than a little boy left wing nut job. since we have a surplus of natural gas that is cleaner and more effecient then why not use it now, give the river and environment time to clean itself then tap back into it when we need to. who knows the way technology is advancing there may be a process invented that can take coal and make it as clean as gas with less waste. if not im afraid that we will end up in the situation that china is in now.
im not a tree hugging caring more for a gorilla more than a little boy left wing nut job. since we have a surplus of natural gas that is cleaner and more effecient then why not use it now, give the river and environment time to clean itself then tap back into it when we need to. who knows the way technology is advancing there may be a process invented that can take coal and make it as clean as gas with less waste. if not im afraid that we will end up in the situation that china is in now.
Yes 6 of the 10 units have been mothballed, but the remaining 4 units are putting out less mercury than ever due to the injection systems. Also the plant IS shutting down. The coal plant and combustion turbines (that have been there for a long time), are separate from each other. You are correct though that the steam for chemours will come from TVA's combustion turbines. I'll quit hijacking now,sorry.
MidTennFisher
Well-Known Member
This thread has been very informative. Between you guy's knowledge and the articles posted I've learned a lot. Trust me, I'm also NOWHERE near some left wing nutjob but I am very concerned about what we're doing do our natural resources. I never want the entire state of TN to be like what has happened in East TN. There are some bodies of water where the TWRA warning goes beyond "Do not eat the fish" and actually says "Avoid contact with the water". That's insane, that should never happen. I believe we have some of the most beautiful fisheries in the country right here and we can not take that for granted.
Through history we've looked back and done a lot of "Can you believe we used to (fill in the blank)" and I don't think we're done doing that. Remember when people thought margarine was a good idea? I hope one day we'll be done with using coal and look back and say we're glad we stopped when we did or there would be no lakes in Tennessee safe to harvest fish from, or in some cases even touch the water!
Through history we've looked back and done a lot of "Can you believe we used to (fill in the blank)" and I don't think we're done doing that. Remember when people thought margarine was a good idea? I hope one day we'll be done with using coal and look back and say we're glad we stopped when we did or there would be no lakes in Tennessee safe to harvest fish from, or in some cases even touch the water!
