Starting QDM

[wrdabney]

So i have been reading and studying QDM practices over the last few weeks and frankly, it is all pretty overwhelming. So, I guess what I am asking for is some help getting started. If you were just starting out with QDM on your property what steps would you take first (Census(what is the proper way to do this), food plots, creating cover, etc...) Any help is appreciated. I have about 130 acres im going to implement QDM on. It is in Henderson county, about 10 acres in one field, 5 acres in a swamp area and the rest in hardwoods. Thanks

 

[BowGuy84]

Well, letting 1.5's walk would be the first step then I would get someone to assess your land. Forestry/habitat managment.

Trail cameras are a great way to get a good cencus starting in July/August, and you can put in some mineral licks in the next couple of months to draw the deer in front of them.

QDM can be as complex or simple as you want it. I am relatively new (this was my first year managing my own land) but it is a rewarding task and always leaves something to tinker with or ponder. Good luck and you have found a great place to get info.

 

[wrdabney]

ive never shot anything less than an 8 point off of the land so i guess thats sort of a start. i already have a few mineral licks out and one trail cam. i'm not sure i really understand the proper way to do a census. i mean how do you know what deer you have already counted and which ones you haven't. seems like there isnt a very good way to distinguish say one doe from another. anyway, im planning on putting a few food plots in this year. also, there is not much underbrush in the woods so how much cover should I try to make for 130 acres? also, what is the right way to know how many doe you should harvest each year? thanks for the help.

 

[Stick'n'String]

Step A - Decide what your goals are
Step B - Determine where you are (start collecting trail cam census, observation stats, harvest stats, etc.

Step C - Formulate Plan to get from A to B (harvest limits, habitat improvements, etc)

 

[wrdabney]

well i think i would like to harvest at least 2 good bucks a year off of the property. so what is the best way to know how many does to kill a year? I'm still not sure the proper way to do a census either. How do you know you aren't counting deer twice or more?

 

[BowGuy84]

There is a formula for calculating does, but I dont know it. Im sure someone will chime in soon.

As for cover, the saying goes "cover is king" create cover around food and feather edges and you will be in the money of a deer heaven.

If there is limited ground cover, I think it is time to start thinning forest and maybe flat clear some areas.

 

[TheLBLman]

Step A - Decide what your goals are
Step B - Determine where you are (start collecting trail cam census, observation stats, harvest stats, etc.

Step C - Formulate Plan to get from A to B (harvest limits, habitat improvements, etc)

Good advise.

But if you're hunting before you can complete this, I would strive to harvest no more male than female deer, and avoid harvesting any yearling bucks (the ones that are less than 2 years old, normally 1.5 years old during the fall). Also, avoid harvesting any "button" bucks, which are male fawns.

well i think i would like to harvest at least 2 good bucks a year off of the property.

Regarding most Tennessee properties I have hunted (or reviewed) this would not be a realistic goal.

On very large QDM properties in TN (thousands of contiguous acres), a realistic goal is commonly only 1 "older" buck for each 200 to 500 acres.

Each property is unique, and certainly certain 130-acre parcels can support a much higher harvest than others. If you have 130 acres of mostly woods & cover surrounded by a 1,000-acre field, you might realistically expect to harvest 3 or 4 "older" bucks annually on that 130 acres. But divide 4 into 1,130 acres and it would work out to about 1 "older" buck per 283 acres.

So just shooting off the cuff, with no additional data or info, I would say a realistic goal on 130 acres is maybe taking 1 "older" buck about every other year, and plan on taking none the first year. If there's two of you hunting, then "realistically" each of you may expect to take only 1 "older" buck once every 3 or 4 years.

 

[fishboy1]

Most bang for your buck?

Buy a good chainsaw. Cut 1-3 acre patches and allow to grow up into a nasty thicket. Sell the wood if you can or cut into firewood and sell. (help cover your costs of ownership and management) A good logger is someone you should have in your contact list.

Try and get some help understanding the existing travel routes and plan your mini clear cuts along those travel routes with an eye toward your approach to the stand sites and the prevailing winds.

If you have a lot of money to burn, plant some food/shooting plots. Good place to kill some does and young deer.

Most of your mature deer will be killed next to the nasty thick stuff or traveling between patches during the rut.

 

[TheLBLman]

I used to kill several bucks annually before I became a mature buck hunter (certainly not a requirement for practicing QDM). I've since been humbled by my personal lack of harvest, i.e. I now average about 1 mature buck every year or two in TN --- and I'm hunting on some decent large-acreage properties that have been under QDM long term. But at the same time, I'm truly enjoying the whole hunting experience much more than I did when I thought I had to shoot every buck I saw.

Rule of thumb on "harvestablility" (once they exist):

Yearling Bucks: Dumbest Deer in the Woods --- Easy to Kill
2 1/2-yr-old Bucks: Twice the Hunting Challenge of a Yearling
3 1/2-yr-old Bucks: Now We're Starting to See a Real Hunting Challenge!
----------------- 3 1/2-yr-old Buck Twice the Challenge of a 2 1/2.
Mature Bucks (4 1/2 & Older): Twice the Challenge of a 3 1/2.

That said, where bucks and does have gone several years under near equal harvest pressure, and exist in near equal numbers, I find a 3 1/2-yr-old or older doe a greater hunting challenge than a 3 1/2-yr-old or older buck.

 

[wrdabney]

Maybe that goal is too high, I think I would be happy harvesting 1 3.5 yr. old every few years and a few 2.5 yr. olds in between.

I have a good chainsaw and would consider myself pretty capable with it. Is there a rule of thumb for how many acres of cover needed per acreage?

Also, is there a rule of thumb for doe harvest?

 

[BSK]

wrdabney,

Managing smaller properties (and a few large ones) is what I do for a living. Instead of try to set up a generic percentage of your property in different types of habitat, I would suggest first assessing your property to determine what the property's greatest needs are, and work on those first. In essence, find the most limiting factors to deer production/attraction and attempt to address the most critical factors first. Maybe the greatest need is food, or cover, of diversity, or knowledge of the current herd conditions.

It's virtually impossible to know where to go with management if you don't know where you are now. Is the herd too dense? Is the sex ratio skewed? What is your current buck age structure?

 

[Bob S]

I would suggest first assessing your property to determine what the property's greatest needs are, and work on those first. In essence, find the most limiting factors to deer production/attraction and attempt to address the most critical factors first.

That sounds like an idea for a great magazine article.

Plugging the Lowest Hole in the Bucket

 

[Anonymous]

Well i have been paying close attention to this post cause i to have about same size property. But my place is big mature timber and two cedar thickets.When you only have this small of property i think you have to take in consideration of joining properties more than when you have a large chuck of land you hunt.Our ajoining properties one side we have fields which is not hunted and on the other side of us they just cut the timber off about 3 years ago and dont get hunted much. So i really struggle on my deer limts (on how many to kill year also).Any ideas?

 

[Huntnbubba]

Go to this web site. Its a good article on doing a cemera survey to figure out your herd numbers. It's from the QDMA website. There are many great articles on there to check out.

http://www.qdma.org/articles/details.asp?id=89

 

[deerchaser007]

So i have been reading and studying QDM practices over the last few weeks and frankly, it is all pretty overwhelming. So, I guess what I am asking for is some help getting started. If you were just starting out with QDM on your property what steps would you take first (Census(what is the proper way to do this), food plots, creating cover, etc...) Any help is appreciated. I have about 130 acres im going to implement QDM on. It is in Henderson county, about 10 acres in one field, 5 acres in a swamp area and the rest in hardwoods. Thanks

Its just to hard to really say without seeing the property, knowing the deer density, and what kind of ratio you have in your area.
2 good trail cams and 2 good mineral stations would be a start. Then,.. you can start your census and find out about your herd.
Alot can be done with that 10 acre field. BUT,.. i for sure would break it up into different sections with different goals for each section. Like 4 acres native warm season grasses for cover, 3 acres in summer annuals like corn & soybean , 1.5 acres in perennial plot, 1.5 acre in annual fall/winter plot. Thats just 1 way to plan it out. You have lots of choices there!!
I would focus on making some 1 acre clearcuts in the hardwoods ,.. then some scattered TSI's in others.
And most of all ,.. get to know your neighbors and form a qdm co op with them if they are willing to partipate. Establish simple goals within the co op ,.. just protect the yearlings and shoot does as needed just to start out. QDM co op is important for small land managers ,. and will help your hunting and the others also.

In my opinion, talking to neighbors about a qdm co op would be on top of my list. It may take awhile for them to come on board,.. but i found it really helped just letting our neighbors know we were passing up smaller bucks if they were interested in having better deer. Its a fact,.. if a hunter knows that if a buck he passes will not be shot by his neighbors if he lets it go,. he is more likely not to shoot it. SO,.. it helps you by just establishing that 1 simple goal.
AND,.. join QDMA!! The information you get from there magazine quality whitetails is worth every penny you pay to become a member.

 

[BSK]

When you only have this small of property i think you have to take in consideration of joining properties more than when you have a large chuck of land you hunt.

Absolutely critical grant913. "Playing" what your neighbors are doing to your advantage is absolutely critical. Basically, provide for deer what your neighbors' are not providing.

 

[Anonymous]

To answer your question regarding your camera survey. This is best done in the offseason to avoid breaking the law. You need to place one camera per 50 acres or if you would prefer to use one camera, you can move it. Pile up some type of feed such as corn in front of the camera and keep feeding for two weeks. (Note: a mineral lick will not get the job done.) Repeat this at two more sites (two weeks per site). At the end of the survey, count the number of buck pictures. Then count how many different bucks you see and divide that into the total number of buck pictures. Next, add up the total number of doe pictures and divide that by your buck answer. While this is not completely fool proof, you should be able to get a ball park figure.
If it turns out that you have similar numbers of each sex and there is sufficient food for the deer (most parts of Tennessee are way below carrying capacity) I would kill a doe for each buck killed. If there are more does, kill a few extra each year until the ratio is the same. On a 130 acre tract, you need to know how many your neighbors are killing so as to not kill too many or too few does.

 

[BSK]

You won't need a camera for each 50 acres. The original study by which the camera survey process was developed used a camera for every 160 acres.

Food-source bait has its avantages and disadvantages.

 

[Anonymous]

I suppose that the number of cameras I gave would be higher than what many would recomend. However, on the properties I hunt, you can place a camera per 50 acres and never get the same deer on two different cameras. Granted, my deer don't have to travel much to get what they need. Most of them seem to be using less than 50 acres with the exception of the rut.
My philosophy about the number of cameras in a survey is that I'd rather have too many as to not have enough. The more cameras you have, the more accurate your survey should be and the less likely deer are to slip through the cracks.

 

[TheLBLman]

The more cameras you have, the more accurate your survey should be and the less likely deer are to slip through the cracks.

Not necessarily.

Put them too close, and you will get a lot of the same deer at two or more locations. Although bucks are more individually identified, how do you identify specific fawns and female deer?

Another thing about putting them too close is you may "intrude" more, causing some of your older bucks to leave your area of human intrusion --- this can be especially the case on small properties, such as less than 200 acres, and especially if there's much less human intrusion on the adjoining 200 acres.

Food-source bait has its avantages and disadvantages.

Mostly "disadvantages" based on what I've come to understand in the past two years, particularly when the bait is corn purchased in Tennessee.

 

[Anonymous]

If your using the formula I described in an earlier post, then it doesn't matter if you are getting the same deer on two different cameras. However, it does matter if you are missing deer.
What type of disadvantages could come from using bait for a two week stretch during the offseason in order to conduct a survey?

 

[BSK]

I suppose that the number of cameras I gave would be higher than what many would recomend. However, on the properties I hunt, you can place a camera per 50 acres and never get the same deer on two different cameras.

That would be very unusual results. In most situations, bucks are photographed at numerous camera locations, even with only 1 camera per 160 acres.

Granted, my deer don't have to travel much to get what they need. Most of them seem to be using less than 50 acres with the exception of the rut.

Again, that would be highly unusual. Although situations such as that have been documented, they are extremely rare. Most older bucks have home ranges of several hundred acres if not well over a thousand acres.

My philosophy about the number of cameras in a survey is that I'd rather have too many as to not have enough. The more cameras you have, the more accurate your survey should be and the less likely deer are to slip through the cracks.

I ceretainly recommend as many cameras as possible for a non-baited census, but not necessarily for a baited census.

 

[BSK]

What type of disadvantages could come from using bait for a two week stretch during the offseason in order to conduct a survey?

In the summer, corn can rapidly become contaminated with aflatoxin.

However, my major concern is the accuracy of the census. I'm seeing a growing number of reports of food-source baiting techniques losing their effectiveness over time. In essence, the numbers generated look right for the first couple of years the technique is tried, yet by the third or fourth year the numbers just don't add up. It appears deer, and especially older bucks, become wary of the food-bait stations over time.

I tested this theory myself by running dual baited censuses on the same property at the same time (on a property where corn-bait camera sites had been used for 7 years). One set of cameras were run at corn-bait sites and the other census was run at salt-lick sites. I too found the corn-bait sites were not producing good numbers. Older bucks were definitely avoiding the corn-bait sites.

 

[Anonymous]

My hunting properties are very low impact. Especially during the hunting season. I'm surrounded by open ground and residential areas. The properties have plenty of cover, feed, water, and the deer aren't threatened. I have been lucky enough to hunt very isolated areas.

 

[TheLBLman]

Older bucks were definitely avoiding the corn-bait sites.

While this is just a guess, I suspect a big reason why this happens is due to the greater human intrusion required to place (or maintain) the corn.

On the other hand, salt licks may over-represent male deer in a local population.

But suffice is to say that fully mature bucks will not allow their pictures to be taken at anything like the rate at which you may get pics of 3 1/2-yr-old and younger bucks. Mature bucks tend to gravitate to the areas within their range that have the least human disturbance.

 

[TheLBLman]

In the summer, corn can rapidly become contaminated with aflatoxin.

It can in the SPRING, too!

A few years ago I thought I was "helping" my local deer herd by supplementally feeding corn post-deer season into spring green-up. Big mistake.

Unlike the "deer corn" that most people put out, I was using supposedly "aflatoxin-free" corn purchased from the county Co-op. But it either had or developed aflatoxin, and totally wiped out the local turkey population. Feeding corn is the best way I know to wipe out your turkeys.

Then I found out that (with or without the aflatoxin) feeding corn in the spring and summer may actually STUNT antler growth!!!

Bucks need lots of protein in their spring/summer diets to help them reach more of their antler growth potential. Unfortunately, corn is low in protein. Everytime a buck consumes a mouthful of corn, he then eats less of the natural browse and forbes that are high in protein. Feeding corn to a deer in the spring and summer is much like feeding candy, at the expense of healthy foods, to an obese child.

 

[BSK]

Older bucks were definitely avoiding the corn-bait sites.

While this is just a guess, I suspect a big reason why this happens is due to the greater human intrusion required to place (or maintain) the corn.

If this were the reason, you would see older buck avoidance starting with the first year of running the census. However, this problem occurs over a period of years. The first couple of years, the numbers and census appear to be working fine. Problems only begin to occur several years into the process. It is something "learned" by the deer over time.

On the other hand, salt licks may over-represent male deer in a local population.

I've seen highly variable results with salt-lick censuses. I've seen does become extremely over-represented at salt licks and then I've seen areas where they can hardly get a doe at a salt lick. I have no idea why these results are so variable from place to place.

However all that said, I believe the population numbers from any of the baited photo census techniques are highly dubious. I now use baited photo census data more to track just buck populations (number of individual bucks and age structure of that population). I believe non-baited censuses can produce the best population numbers, if the data is analyzed carefully. There can be some real "traps" in non-baited censuses as well.

But suffice is to say that fully mature bucks will not allow their pictures to be taken at anything like the rate at which you may get pics of 3 1/2-yr-old and younger bucks. Mature bucks tend to gravitate to the areas within their range that have the least human disturbance.

Generally true, but with care and the new "black-flash" cameras, I think pretty good buck population numbers can be produced from certain types of baited censuses.

 

[Anonymous]

We all know about the risks of corn but what about soybeans?

 

[BSK]

If you can get deer to eat soybeans. Almost everyone I know who has tried soybeans in feeders or bait piles had to add corn to the mix to get the deer to eat the beans.

 

[Anonymous]

Sunflowers, oats, deer chow, etc?