So sad

muddyboots

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Nov 6, 2002
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savannah, tn., usa
Years back say in the year 2000 range my typical day early March. Get up daylight. Go listen for turkeys and prolly hear 15 to 20 gobblers lighting it up. 20 minute drive to my lease and on the trip prolly see 75 turkeys in fields next to the road on way home.

Today - I've seen 2 hens. Have not heard a gobble. So so sad.

I hope where you hunt it's still good but heed the warning. It is on the downhill. That's a fact. My opinion the high limits have about ruined it for me. I'll still hunt but it just doesn't hold the same excitement. Sad day.
 

spoon

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Oct 5, 2004
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29,210
Location
Bartlett, TN
I was near you this morning off Choate creek rd saw around 40 hens in 2 fields. Didn't hear a gobble. Checked the cameras with over 3k pictures only 1 male picture. Couldn't tell if it was jake or longbeard
 
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catman529

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Nov 10, 2010
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29,472
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Franklin TN
What I want to know is why turkeys disappear in localized areas. No I'm not looking for an answer here, I don't think anyone has a good answer. Southern middle TN counties are a good example of an unexplained decline in turkeys. I drive around liepers fork in Franklin often, and about half of the area (southwestern Williamson county) is full of turkeys, the other half I've heard from the locals used to be loaded with birds but they just disappeared some years ago. And it's not known for being hunted too terribly hard, a lot of people there don't even allow hunting. Coyotes have been here since the 60s and coons and bobcats forever... can't really point to anything when an area comparable to anywhere else has the turkeys just disappear. The good thing is I've heard of them slowly coming back in some places. And you don't have to drive too far to find some birds.
 

megalomaniac

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Oct 28, 2005
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Mississippi
I hiked 4 or 5 miles on national forest Fri afternoon, found one area with fresh scratching. No gobbles..

I covered close to 2000 acres of private lease here in south MS today trying to find a bird for my 14 yo to hunt in 2d... never struck a gobble, found 1 set of jake tracks. 1 old pile of hen poo.

Hitting national forest again tomorrow before church about 20 miles away from where I was Friday.

My MS season is looking pretty bleak based on the several square miles I've scouted so far.
 

megalomaniac

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Mississippi
And Catman is right... some places in TN that used to have birds have been completely wiped out. Despite no changes in habitat. The hens just quit raising poults.

I sure miss the late 90s to early 00s on my main farm. Flocks of 300 birds in the fall, and it was a bad day to hear less than 10 gobble on the roost.

They are coming back slowly, as noone hunts around there any longer. Just not worth the time.
 

megalomaniac

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Mississippi
Have you read about corn and aflotoxin?
I think that is actually what wiped out my birds in south MS. I shot a MS limit 2yrs ago, and left 5 toms and 5 jakes alive on that property for last year. ALL males were gone last year except for 3 jakes. The other members (mostly deer hunters) run feeders and pour corn on the ground at their secret spots in the woods... for the turkeys to just just vanish in 1 year, I'm sure it was aflatoxin poisoning.

I wish MS would outlaw feeding/ baiting for deer. But it is so ingrained in MS hunting culture, it won't stop. Heck, I bet a third of all turkeys in MS are killed over bait, even though it is illegal.
 

hbg1

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Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
700
Years back say in the year 2000 range my typical day early March. Get up daylight. Go listen for turkeys and prolly hear 15 to 20 gobblers lighting it up. 20 minute drive to my lease and on the trip prolly see 75 turkeys in fields next to the road on way home.

Today - I've seen 2 hens. Have not heard a gobble. So so sad.

I hope where you hunt it's still good but heed the warning. It is on the downhill. That's a fact. My opinion the high limits have about ruined it for me. I'll still hunt but it just doesn't hold the same excitement. Sad day.
Exactly, it has taken the Twra a decade to halfway understand what we are dealing with here in the southern middle counties, I still don't think they get it.
 

hbg1

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Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
700
I think that is actually what wiped out my birds in south MS. I shot a MS limit 2yrs ago, and left 5 toms and 5 jakes alive on that property for last year. ALL males were gone last year except for 3 jakes. The other members (mostly deer hunters) run feeders and pour corn on the ground at their secret spots in the woods... for the turkeys to just just vanish in 1 year, I'm sure it was aflatoxin poisoning.

I wish MS would outlaw feeding/ baiting for deer. But it is so ingrained in MS hunting culture, it won't stop. Heck, I bet a third of all turkeys in MS are killed over bait, even though it is illegal.
I bet that wasn't the first year the deer hunters fed corn so why all of a sudden start losing birds?
 

Jpain

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May 16, 2013
Messages
6
Location
Wilson Co.
Fire ants? We have been on a property for 20 years and used to have a ton of birds. Fire ants came in a few years back and the population has drastically declined. Fire ants get on the chicks and kill them I would assume. We rarely have corn out on our property but doesn't mean that neighbors don't.
 

TheLBLman

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Jun 12, 2002
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37,853
Location
Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Seems to me, many areas that had great turkey populations in the 1990's & early 2000's, now have but a fraction what they had, DESPITE now having even better habitat for turkey! And, that habitat is particularly better for nesting success.

Meanwhile, more of TN's annual turkey human hunter harvest seems to be coming from those counties (and portions of counties) that had relatively few turkeys during the 1990's & early 2000's.

So, what gives?

Likely, it is no one thing much more than another,
but all the above mentioned factors play a role in reducing, sometimes even decimating, turkey populations in places with great turkey habitat.

My personal observations include a fast "evolution" in predators "learning" to hunt for turkey.

It may be that in areas with low turkey populations, it takes several years before the predators begin focusing more, and more, on hunting turkeys. I'm talking mainly the predation of poults and adult birds, more than egg raiders. I'm generally seeing pretty good nesting success, followed by much lower survival to adulthood compared to times past.

Along with this, there has been a significant increase in the raptor population, and those raptors have evolved to become more proficient turkey killers. Let a single Cooper's hawk see a hen with young poults, then most of those poults are dead within a few days, as the Cooper's will never let that hen out of his sight until he's done.

Should any survive Mr. Cooper, they next face the larger hawks, as well as the owls, and now even Bald Eagles. This is on top of bobcats and coyotes evolving to focus more and becoming more proficient at killing turkeys as well.

Next, we have had a progressive increase in "feeding" corn, and the aflatoxin poison is taking a toll as well. What's more, these "feeding" stations commonly become "ambush" points for bobcats, coyotes, and maybe a surprise to many, your neighbor's dogs. And, too often, these feeding stations have become where many humans kill their turkeys as well.

My conclusion is increased predation, increased human hunter proficiency (progressively killing a higher percentage of what's available), and increased aflatoxin poisoning are combining to cause population declines even in areas of improved habitat.
 

TheLBLman

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Jun 12, 2002
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Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Just because TWRA can't do much about much the above,
that does not meant they should do nothing differently,
when it comes to season dates and bag limits,
which are also factors effecting the outcome.

I believe if our spring season were changed to open the 2nd Saturday of April (rather than the Saturday closest to April 1st), that alone would be a giant step in regulatory change to help improve our turkey populations. This could make more difference than all other "reasonable" proposed regulatory changes combined, while keeping everything else "as is" (same closing date, same bag limit, etc.).

I'm sure some are going to chime in pointing out that turkey populations have also been lower in many places, such as LBL, the State of KY, which already have a later opening date. Just saying, I believe those areas would be in worse shape if they had been instead opening around April 1st.

Regarding hunters success, anyone want to look at KY statewide compared to TN statewide?
Look at the number of hunters killing "a" bird annually, and number of hunting days to kill "a" bird.
 
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Granddaddy

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Aug 18, 2000
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1,329
Location
Grantville, GA
Fire ants? We have been on a property for 20 years and used to have a ton of birds. Fire ants came in a few years back and the population has drastically declined. Fire ants get on the chicks and kill them I would assume. We rarely have corn out on our property but doesn't mean that neighbors don't.
Yep fire ants come in, followed by armadillos & they devastate the hatch. I've found nests with hatched birds completely killed off by ants or eggs raided by amadillos or coons.
 

Bgoodman30

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Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,347
Disease IMO is the only thing it can be in the southern counties. Turkeys suffer from almost all the same plights and hunting pressure in most every other county while maintaining healthy populations.
 

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