Shot Placement Question???

[bowhunterfanatic]

Where exactly do you shoot a deer with a rifle other than the spine for it to drop in it's tracks? Seems like every year I see deer shot in the exact same place and hear some hunters say this deer dropped while others say this one went 80 yards? I've shot several deer with different caliber rifles and noticed the same thing? What is responsible for the mixed results?

 

[Roost 1]

High shoulder..shocks the spine. Works for me anyhow.

 

[travle]

outside of a spine shot (which would not only put a deer in shock, but probably instantly paralyze them) I believe they run on adrenaline alone. My biggest buck i shot was head down on a doe. When i shot he dropped his front shoulder and took off. I knew i hit him good, but didn't find any blood in the flied. My friend and I found 2 trails where he entered the woods. We took one each and just a few yards in he started bleeding not even 30 yards later he was laying dead. I believe he ran that far just on adrenaline alone. It is a powerful hormone when lots of it is produced at once.

 

[cfmartin1833]

One thin to remember is that as little as a quarter inch can make a difference when I comes to where the bullet enters and exits. That quarter inch could be the difference between a good heart shot or a single lung shot. The entry and exit hole can look perfect but if you only hit one lung, a deer could survive that.

 

[travle]

yep that's true even a human can survive on one lung. knew a lady that only had one.

 

[muddyboots]

Follow leg up to just above middle squeeze trigger.

 

[travle]

correct me if i'm wrong, but won't that just break a leg and not even hit the body of the deer?

 

[deerhunter10]

Right behind the front shoulder. Look up the diagram of the Deer and look at where the lungs and heart and all of that. That's where you need to shoot. It's right behind the front shoulder.

 

[deerhunter10]

And i would never purposely shoot a deer in the spine it usually takes a follow up shot. I like a good clean shot never had one run with my 270. Now with a bow of course they will and they. Have always ran with my muzzle loader to.

 

[greyfox1947]

neck shots will put them on the ground....period.

Rick

 

[bowhunterfanatic]

Ok. I obviously didn't do a good job getting my question across. I know where to aim at a deer. What I don't know is why some deer drop in their tracks when shot in a certain spot, while others can be hit in the exact same spot at the exact same angle and manage to run 80 yards.

For instance, I shot a decent body sized buck a couple weeks ago with a 7-08 at ~ 160 yards. I hit him ~ 3 or 4 inches behind the shoulder maybe an inch above the center of his chest. He dropped straight to the ground. I didn't open his chest cavity (rarely ever gut a deer anymore) but based on entrance and exit wound I devastated both lungs without hitting the heart. However, I've seen other deer shot with larger and smaller caliber rifles whose lungs were also completely devastated but still managed to run. How is this????

 

[deerhunter10]

Just depends on the rifle bullet combo. I know i uses to own a 7mag and within 70 yards no matter what they never dropped pass that they did. Switched bullets and they dropped no matter what yardage.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

Right behind the front shoulder dropped mine in his tracks today. It was a high shot from a steep angle that took out both lungs and he never even wiggled.

 

[7wsm]

High shoulder..shocks the spine. Works for me anyhow.

every time

 

[7wsm]

neck shots will put them on the ground....period.

Rick

not always

 

[Mike Belt]

If you'll look at a picture of a deer...follow his front leg up to the body. About midway up you'll see what looks like a dimple in his shoulder. A bullet right there will drop him like a sack of bricks.

 

[muddyboots]

correct me if i'm wrong, but won't that just break a leg and not even hit the body of the deer?

High shoulder shot works like a champ.

 

[travle]

correct me if i'm wrong, but won't that just break a leg and not even hit the body of the deer?

High shoulder shot works like a champ.

i read your post wrong then....the way i read it was start at the deer's foot and follow it up till midways and then go slightly above it... That made me think midways was at the knee joint of the leg and you would shoot just above it.

Anyways, I believe the deer instantly dropping comes from shock of the bullet and that's the only factor. the deer is still on the ground alive for a short period of time. Just because the lungs or heart are hit doesn't mean it is instantly dead. A punctured heart with still pump blood until the blood pressure becomes so low from internal bleeding (e.g. you have something hooked up to an airline, and if that airline has a leak whatever is hooked to it won't work at its top end. and will eventually fail as the leak because greater causing air lose to be greater). Once the heart stops from low pressure the brain and lungs stop receiving blood so it dies. So with a deer bleeding out it can still run a great distance even if death occurs within 20 seconds. Example a pro football player can run 40 yards in 4.5 seconds so in 9 seconds they could run 80 yards. A deer is by far faster than a human. Also for lungs to work properly the pressure inside the chest cavity must be maintained. So if you or a deer even has a pencil size hole or smaller hole in the chest cavity they could suffocate in a matter of minutes. because the chest cavity pressure being lost causes the lungs to collapse and you or a deer can no longer breath. Your rib cage is built to withstand the outside environment pressure. The pressure inside the chest cavity is lower which allows you to breath. Once the chest cavity is punctured the inside pressure is equalized to the higher outside pressure causing collapsed lungs. To give you an idea a ping pong ball is able to maintain its shape because it is built to withstand the everyday pressure of the outside environment. But you take that ping pong ball and put it in the ocean at great depths the greater pressure causes the ping pong ball to collapse.

 

[Hunter 257W]

you could shoot 100 deer in the same exact spot some will drop some will run its just how it happens

Can't say it any better than this!

 

[Hunter 257W]

I will add that the odds of an instant kill(i.e. deer drops in it's tracks) increase with velocity and frangibility of the bullet. The kicker with this is that if you get velocity too high with a real soft bullet, you run the risk of blowing up a bullet and getting inadequate penetration. This can leave a deer in the woods with a horrible - but not fatal wound. Nobody wants that. This is why I use controlled expansion bullets in my hot 25 calibers. I've had good luck with Nosler Partitions which I think may still be the best deer bullet for small calibers. The nose blows off much like a varmint bullet giving a good shock effect while the rear portion(about 60% of the weight) continues to penetrate. Hard to beat that. LAtely I have been trying the Barnes 100 grain TTSX. To date I have shot 3 deer with it. All 3 ran but none beyond about 40yds. Obviously it's not going to have a lot of shock effect since it's a solid copper bullet made to penetrate rather than transfer lots of energy fast. It gives me confidence though if I have to take a raking shot at close range even at the 3,590fps velocity. With rifles, it's always about compromise. :crazy:

In an attempt to get faster kills I've read of some hunters using Berger target bullets that are very thin jacketed and soft for long range shots because obviously they tend to be accurate, shoot flat AND blow up like varmint bullets when hitting a deer. This is great across huge fields when used on broadside deer where all you have to do is punch through a rib. But still makes me nervous if a less than perfect shot is all you get. Or a big buck comes running by right on top of you! (By the way, I have a couple boxes of Berger 120grVLD bullets set aside to experiment with in my 25-06 and 257Weatherby.)

But for the most part because of the small caliber and high velocity of these rifles, I'll hunt with controlled expansion bullets and just accept the fact that about half of the deer I shoot are going to run about 50 yds.

 

[chiggerbit]

I will add that the odds of an instant kill(i.e. deer drops in it's tracks) increase with velocity and frangibility of the bullet. The kicker with this is that if you get velocity too high with a real soft bullet, you run the risk of blowing up a bullet and getting inadequate penetration. This can leave a deer in the woods with a horrible - but not fatal wound. Nobody wants that. This is why I use controlled expansion bullets in my hot 25 calibers. I've had good luck with Nosler Partitions which I think may still be the best deer bullet for small calibers. The nose blows off much like a varmint bullet giving a good shock effect while the rear portion(about 60% of the weight) continues to penetrate. Hard to beat that. LAtely I have been trying the Barnes 100 grain TTSX. To date I have shot 3 deer with it. All 3 ran but none beyond about 40yds. Obviously it's not going to have a lot of shock effect since it's a solid copper bullet made to penetrate rather than transfer lots of energy fast. It gives me confidence though if I have to take a raking shot at close range even at the 3,590fps velocity. With rifles, it's always about compromise. :crazy:

In an attempt to get faster kills I've read of some hunters using Berger target bullets that are very thin jacketed and soft for long range shots because obviously they tend to be accurate, shoot flat AND blow up like varmint bullets when hitting a deer. This is great across huge fields when used on broadside deer where all you have to do is punch through a rib. But still makes me nervous if a less than perfect shot is all you get. Or a big buck comes running by right on top of you! (By the way, I have a couple boxes of Berger 120grVLD bullets set aside to experiment with in my 25-06 and 257Weatherby.)

But for the most part because of the small caliber and high velocity of these rifles, I'll hunt with controlled expansion bullets and just accept the fact that about half of the deer I shoot are going to run about 50 yds.

Thanks for the good and honest post. I often wonder why folks recommend .243's for young hunters, when it and the other small calibers are better in the hands of more experienced hunters/shooters.