Shooting buck fawns..........

[Dean Parisian]

On a farm I hunt owned by a client and his brother we usually take some does late in the year. I have tried to state the importance of having all hunters make absolutely sure of the sex of every fawn that is killed. There is no difference between killing a small 6 or 8 point and a buck fawn, each have the potential to be the bomber I want to put on the wall in the fall of 2016 or 2017 or maybe even in 2015!

What is so hard about picking the binocs up and making positive identification of what is being killed?

Buck fawns are future bombers in my book, how about yours?

 

[Gravey]

I've made a few mistakes on them myself and the reason now why I normally hold off at last light if I'm not 100% sure it's a doe. Could have doubled up for the first time with my son (he's 8) on the muzzleloader hunt but just wasn't positive it was a doe so I let it walk.

 

[BSK]

Anyone who thinks they can ALWAYS identify a button buck from a doe is fooling themselves. In intense doe harvest programs, I've seen very experienced field biologists make that mistake.

However, realistically, I would much rather see a button buck killed than a yearling buck killed, or even worse, a 2 1/2 killed in a program where 3 1/2+ is the goal. There is no guarantee--in fact not a great chance at all--that that button buck would have stayed and lived his life on the property. In essence, you've lost something you probably would have lost anyways. In addition, only a few months of food resources have been invested in that button buck. On the other hand, the managers have much more invested in a yearling or 2 1/2 year-old buck, and the odds keep increasing the older a buck gets that he would have been back the following year of he had survived hunting season.

 

[pressfit]

I could not tell you how many BB I have killed.. after looking at then with my spy glass and making sure they were does.. I guess me eyes aint what they used to be..

 

[muddyboots]

Personally i think button bucks should count toward the buck limit.

 

[Football Hunter]

I was told at a young age,wait for several"does" to show up,shoot the big one,very,very rarely will that be a BB.

 

[Gravey]

Personally i think button bucks should count toward the buck limit.

I agree.

 

[vanleerbuckbuster]

the last 4 "does" i've killed have turned to be buttons. i hate it when that happens, but what ya gonna do? this is over about a 6 year period btw.

 

[spoon]

I kill one every year

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I would have a fit if I killed one. Our only real doe harvests are during bow season so they are pretty close range. And its not hard to tell that a deer is a fawn, short nose and what not. When in doubt just wait for the next deer that you have no doubt on. I think they should count toward the buck limit as well, especially since our limit is so high, I mean it is a buck after all last time I looked between ones legs LOL

 

[megalomaniac]

Anyone who thinks they can ALWAYS identify a button buck from a doe is fooling themselves...
However, realistically, I would much rather see a button buck killed than a yearling buck killed, or even worse, a 2 1/2 killed in a program where 3 1/2+ is the goal.

Agree completely on both fronts.

Last 2 buttons I've killed were the last two fawns I've shot at. I love to eat young does, and used to target them over the adults, especially late November when they're up to 60 or 65lbs.

Last BB I killed was with his sister and mother at 60 yards 4 years ago. I looked 'her' over for 2 minutes, 'she' had a convex head, no buttons. After finally confirming it was a doe, I shot 'her'. In fact, I didn't even realize it wasn't a doe until I grabbed the hind legs for the drag out. no evidence of buttons whatsoever... if it hadn't been for the 'frank and beans' it was not identifiable as a male.

the year before, I shot a deer I knew was a fawn with my pistol that walked right under my stand. Again, looked it over carefully at 3 or 4 yards away, confirmed it did not have buttons, then killed 'her'. 'she' grew buttons on the ground in the afterlife.

I now abstain from killing any fawns, just to make sure I don't have another 'oops'. But I do miss the doe fawn meat.

But in the grand scheme of things, an occasional BB lost to a hunter is not nearly as big of a loss as killing a top end 2.5 y/o and assuming it was older.

 

[TheLBLman]

The very best way I've found to never kill a button is simply to never kill a fawn. Learn to distinguish adults from fawns (and that becomes more challenging as the season progresses), and you'll have little risk of ever killing a button. Just don't get over-confident or you'll end up shooting a 1 1/2-yr-old spike buck.

Personally, I try to kill mainly 2 1/2 and older does, mainly because they're so easily identified as adult females.

 

[156p&y]

When I was a young hunter I used to make the mistake all the time. I haven't done it in a long time luckily.

I learned to look at their head and it has really helped me. A button buck 99% of the time has a flat head, when a doe will have the rounded head.

 

[BowGirl]

I killed one when i was very young. Ive gotten 40-50 does since then and havent made the mistake again. The triangular shaped head/short snout is a dead give away. Some button buck fawns can be as big as full grown does, it can be tough to tell sometimes.

 

[BSK]

I'm DEEPLY opposed to counting harvested button bucks as a buck tag. I've seen this type of system tried repeatedly on clubs/leases and the predictable result is hunters stop shooting does altogether to prevent the loss of a precious buck tag. Counting button bucks as a buck for harvest limit purposes would be a disaster for TN. We already have hunters concerned that our doe harvest this year will be too low. Implementing button bucks as a buck rule would cut doe harvest easily in half in not by two-thirds.

As long as button bucks make up less than 15% of the total antlerless harvest, you're fine. Nature has designed button bucks as the largest single age-sex group in the woods so that they can withstand high mortality rates.

 

[AlanP]

I agree with BSK. If you want to see the doe harvests plummet, make button bucks count against the buck bag limit. No telling how many hunters would quit shooting does, any does, for fear of making a mistake and having a button buck take away an opportunity to shoot an antlered animal.

If you want to maintain sufficient doe harvests, you cannot penalize someone for shooting a button buck.

 

[TheLBLman]

I agree with BSK. If you want to see the doe harvests plummet, make button bucks count against the buck bag limit. No telling how many hunters would quit shooting does, any does, for fear of making a mistake and having a button buck take away an opportunity to shoot an antlered animal.

If you want to maintain sufficient doe harvests, you cannot penalize someone for shooting a button buck.

I agree with AlanP. :)

However, would add the caveat of not SEVERELY penalizing someone for shooting a button buck. In a QDM club, it may be a good idea to have some type of repercussion for shooting a button. In my QDM club, we have a 2-buck annual limit. But we do NOT have the severe penalty of a button counting towards that limit. All that counts is what TWRA defines as an "antlered" buck. But there is a $25 donation requested from anyone who accidentally takes a button.

This seems to be working pretty well, as our long-term button harvest is below 10% of the antlerless deer that have been taken over the past decade. And so far this year (not done yet), we've taken approximately 1 antlerless deer per 150 acres (goal is 1 per 100 acres) and none have been males. Unfortunately, most of our buttons that have been killed in past years happened towards the season's end.

One common occurance I've seen near season's end is that a hunter will have two antlerless deer appear. He'll note that one is larger than the other, and assume that one is the Momma Doe and the other is her nearly grown fawn. He shoots the larger one, and it turns out to be a button buck.

What happens, is the older deer become much more reserved about stepping out into the open, and the first ones to step out are commonly fawns (but they may look grown). A pair of fawns steps out, and if one is a male (button), he will usually be larger than a female sister.

 

[Gravey]

I agree with BSK. If you want to see the doe harvests plummet, make button bucks count against the buck bag limit. No telling how many hunters would quit shooting does, any does, for fear of making a mistake and having a button buck take away an opportunity to shoot an antlered animal.

If you want to maintain sufficient doe harvests, you cannot penalize someone for shooting a button buck.

Could you check them in as bucks so you (TWRA) would have more accurate data but not have them count against your buck tag then? Just thinking out loud here and then again it may not make that big of a difference in the kill totals.

 

[BSK]

I agree with BSK. If you want to see the doe harvests plummet, make button bucks count against the buck bag limit. No telling how many hunters would quit shooting does, any does, for fear of making a mistake and having a button buck take away an opportunity to shoot an antlered animal.

If you want to maintain sufficient doe harvests, you cannot penalize someone for shooting a button buck.

Could you check them in as bucks so you (TWRA) would have more accurate data but not have them count against your buck tag then? Just thinking out loud here and then again it may not make that big of a difference in the kill totals.

The TWRA does track button buck harvests. They go in the records as antlerless males.

 

[AlanP]

Like BSK said, when we we enter a button buck into the TWRA data, it is entered as: Male, Zero Antler Points.

Whereas, does are entered as: Female. And nothing is entered for antler points.

A button buck is counted in the bag limit as an "antlerless" deer, so it does not count against your "three-buck bag limit". However, in our data, button bucks are counted as males.

 

[Gravey]

Like BSK said, when we we enter a button buck into the TWRA data, it is entered as: Male, Zero Antler Points.

Whereas, does are entered as: Female. And nothing is entered for antler points.

A button buck is counted in the bag limit as an "antlerless" deer, so it does not count agianst your "three-buck bag limit". However, in our data, button bucks are counted as males.

Gotcha and thanks to you and BSK for the explanation. I was thinking about the online check-in and wondering if people were checking female and not male. Guess there's really no way of knowing if they were to do that. Again thanks for the info.

 

[muddyboots]

Doe harvesting going down would not be a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[scn]

I agree 100% with Alan and BSK on not counting BB towards the buck bag limit. If that were done it could very easily turn a situation where someone that has killed their three bucks but is try to do herd management into a legal problem. Like Alan and Bryan said, it would greatly cut back the antlerless harvest.

Education instead of regulation is a much better route to go.

 

[BSK]

Doe harvesting going down would not be a bad thing in my opinion.

We should always have a doe harvest equalling the buck harvest, and we certainly aren't shooting too many bucks.

 

[TX300mag]

I've killed a few over the years, probably 10%.

I don't beat myself up. I'm one of the few in the areas I hunt who will shoot does.

I've gotten a lot better by not shooting lone "does," especially later in the season.

 

[Boone 58]

The lone deer that come upon a green field now are usually suspects of having testicles beneath their bellies and should be scrutinized carefully before pulling the trigger if you want to avoid shooting button heads.

 

[SEC]

An old timer told me about ten years ago.Beware of a small deer by itself acting very stupid.I kill alot of does every year.I have not killed a button buck in about ten years.

 

[kholmes]

I've killed a few over the years, probably 10%.

I don't beat myself up. I'm one of the few in the areas I hunt who will shoot does.

I've gotten a lot better by not shooting lone "does," especially later in the season.

So that is why i havent shot a buck yet....LOL!!! I kinda went doe crazy when i got the QDM bug. I shot a few back then but I havent killed one in a couple of years. BUT i have killed more than I should. Prolly like 15-20%

 

[TX300mag]

I've killed a few over the years, probably 10%.

I don't beat myself up. I'm one of the few in the areas I hunt who will shoot does.

I've gotten a lot better by not shooting lone "does," especially later in the season.

So that is why i havent shot a buck yet....LOL!!!

:D

 

[Encore]

I was told at a young age,wait for several"does" to show up,shoot the big one,very,very rarely will that be a BB.

This is what I do. If a young deer is alone I assume it is most likely a bb.