"Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

[TheLBLman]

Read something a moment ago where a poster said, "I'd let him live another year, although I might shoot him with a bow."
What difference does it make which weapon you're using in determining whether a particular buck is a "shooter" or not?

If it matters to you much, then my take is you're more a weapons enthusiast than a hunter. Not that you can't be both, just saying most of us tend to be at least a little more one than the other. I'll probably spend more days hunting with archery/muzzleloader equipment this year than centerfire, and while I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand, to me, it's more about the hunt than the weapon. When the centerfire "gun" season opens statewide, you'll probably not see me heading afield deer hunting with a pistol instead of a rifle. Am usually going to be using the most effective weapon I own that's legal.

But that's not really what I'd like to discuss most.
I'm more curious about the rationale of hunters' CHANGING their "Shooter" Buck Standards based on the time of the season, i.e. early season, the rut, and late season. And also, how does early seasonal success (or lack there of) effect these standards?

Seems I often hear hunters say they lower their standards late-season, yet my thinking is just the opposite, as I raise mine post-rut. Not that they change much from early season to late season, but a buck I "might" take early season is more inclined to get to walk late season. My thinking is he's fairly likely to be killed during the rut, but if he survived to post-rut, he has an excellent chance of getting another year older if I let him walk. So borderline bucks I might have taken in November get to walk in December.

Whether I kill a buck or go "buckless" doesn't change this, in that I don't lower my standards late season when I've not been able to take what I considered a shooter buck earlier. Should add I kill enough does for meat, so never have any need to kill a buck for the table.

By no means do I want to come across as "criticizing" anyone's preferences here, such as by saying some are more into their weapons than their hunting. Just curious as to why we have the preferences we have. Some will say I'm more into deer management than deer hunting, which may be true, although I do regularly kill quite a few deer (and usually with the most effective weapon that's legal to use).

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I definitely don't buy the "bow Buck" philosophy. Is it more difficult to kill deer with a bow? Absolutely. Does that change my standards? Absolutely not.

x2!

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

I definitely don't buy the "bow Buck" philosophy. Is it more difficult to kill deer with a bow? Absolutely. Does that change my standards? Absolutely not.

x 3

However, my standards tend to be slightly lower pre-rut than post-rut, and this is typically during the early "bow" season. It's just that this has nothing to do with the weapon for me, and everything to do with the "timing".

Some people say they hunt exclusively with a bow because it's more challenging than a gun. No doubt about that. But is it more challenging to kill ANY buck with a bow vs. only MATURE bucks with a gun? Not sure I know the answer to this question.

I mainly hunt for the challenge of the hunt, for the meat, and in the case of a buck, for the antlers.

These are the "main" things one cannot get from any of a number of other outdoor endeavors, many of which offer some of the enjoyments we also get while hunting, and some of which can directly effect the quality of our hunting. "Hunting" is not my only passion, but it's striking how many of my other hobbies or passions somehow relate to the hunting.

 

[Shed Hunter]

I was thinking about posting this exact same thing after seeing the post. Now there is definately nothing wrong with lowering you standards with a weopon but to me it doesn't matter what weopon Im using.

I still haven't killed a buck with a bow(only been bow hunting two years). I've passed up plenty though.

 

[MUP]

I'm definitely in stages when it comes to weapons used in hunting. I'll still comment on my best "muzzleloader" buck, or my best "rifle" buck, and, by the same token, I'll comment on my best bow buck. I'm nowhere near the competency level with my bow than I am with a firearm, and I started somwhere with each of them, so, I surely will shoot a buck with my bow that I would let pass with a firearm. And, down the line, after my skill level has increased, I plan to be somewhere close to passing the same quality of deer with each weapon, hopefully. :)

 

[BuckCommander25]

Bow, muzzleloader, rifle, or spear....a dead deer is a dead deer. I am out to kill a big buck and my goal stays the same no matter what weapon I am using; although 99.7% of the time it's with my Mathews!


...btw, I don't hunt with a spear...

 

[bowriter]

Shame on you. You really should spear hunt. Once you try it, you give up your other cheater equipment completely. I justbought a new 4" Rage head for my spear. I got the model with the replaceable blades and point.

 

[Hollar Hunter]

Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

Like I stated before my standards going into the season is 4.5 or 140ish + I don't lower my standards for bow or early season because I don't want to mess my spots up by leaving blood trails/human scent trails/sweat getting a buck or doe out. I try to maximize my chances. I have my stands placed where I put very little pressure on deer getting into them. When you bust one with a bow it generally goes 30 to 150 yards always into the habitat you don't want to be going. If I've hunted my but off all year and haven't killed what I set out to I don't mind lowering my goals and taking a 120+ buck. It still makes me happy to be successful even if I didn't get my ultimate goal and one less buck for next year isnt the end of the world or management plan. As far as meat goes I've got places that are not really good big buck spots that I'll go to to fill my freezer. Everybody is different and if that's what makes one happy than go with it!

 

[Vermin93]

As a beginner bow hunter, my standards will be lower with a bow than with a rifle or muzzleloader. Similarly, my standards on public land are lower than on my lease. Some have said that any deer taken on high pressured public land should be considered a trophy.

 

[BluegrassDan]

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

 

[MUP]

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)

 

[Mike Belt]

I can remember the first buck I put on the ground that I felt disappointed in killing. I can then remember a couple more after that one. I didn't like that feeling and I didn't feel as if I had accomplished anything except killing. That's when I first cranked up my standards and gradually they grew to what they are today. I'll admit that a deer is harder to take with archery as opposed to rifle but he's still the same buck no matter what weapon is in hand. If he doesn't meet my standards it has nothing to do with what I'm hunting with. I'll also admit that afforded the luxory of taking does like we are here in SW Tn helps take the pressure off as far as providing table fare so my style of buck hunting is something I can concentrate on.

Not everyone is as particular as I am so when I see a "tweener" buck (one that is on the verge of being what I consider to be a shooter or just under) late in the season I'm tickled to see he's made it thus far and the last thing I'm going to do is take him out when he's that close to being safe for the season. Hopefully he'll have a great spring and summer ahead of him and we'll meet again next Fall.

 

[Headhunter]

Wes, that is what you get when you a multiple buck limit. With a one buck limit, it changes, there are basically only good bucks with whatever weapon. Many bucks get another year or 2 or 3 to live in the lower limit scenario. That is why I say there is no such thing as a good bowkill or a good muzzleloader kill. I have though the same thing and killed bucks with the same thought process and even posted the same thing. When you get to thinking about it though, all bucks are good bucks and why cheapen what is killed by saying I would have let him walk if I had been gun hunting, but since I was "bowhunting or muzzleloading or traditional gear hunting, etc." I shot him. Makes no sense when you think about it.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)

Very true.

I also do most of my hunting in East TN where there is a pretty low deer density. My typical season goes like this.

Oct.- I'm in the woods to fill the freezer. "Brown it down". The primary reason I hunt is to kill deer. The first several deer I see gets shot. If I pass on a buck thinking a doe is going to come along, I might not have a shot at another deer that month (you Middle and West TN guys probably have a hard time comprehending this).

Nov.- This is the single best time to kill a mature buck. My standards go up. I don't want to shoot an immature buck, only to have a mature buck come along right after it.

Dec.- If I have already killed all the deer I want, my standards go up again. I've already been hunting hard for 2 months and don't really want to fool with one, unless it's what I would consider a real trophy. HOWEVER - If I would like to kill another deer for the freezer, or know of a family that could really use the meat, my standards are gone again. Since I hunt several counties, sometimes in the same day, and unit B's doe days are so convoluted, that means I'm shooting any buck I see.

Jan.- I travel out of state because I love hunting the really late season and the really cold weather. Same standards as December.

 

[102]

Read something a moment ago where a poster said, "I'd let him live another year, although I might shoot him with a bow."
What difference does it make which weapon you're using in determining whether a particular buck is a "shooter" or not?

If it matters to you much, then my take is you're more a weapons enthusiast than a hunter. Not that you can't be both, just saying most of us tend to be at least a little more one than the other. I'll probably spend more days hunting with archery/muzzleloader equipment this year than centerfire, and while I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand, to me, it's more about the hunt than the weapon. When the centerfire "gun" season opens statewide, you'll probably not see me heading afield deer hunting with a pistol instead of a rifle. Am usually going to be using the most effective weapon I own that's legal.

But that's not really what I'd like to discuss most.
I'm more curious about the rationale of hunters' CHANGING their "Shooter" Buck Standards based on the time of the season, i.e. early season, the rut, and late season. And also, how does early seasonal success (or lack there of) effect these standards?

Seems I often hear hunters say they lower their standards late-season, yet my thinking is just the opposite, as I raise mine post-rut. Not that they change much from early season to late season, but a buck I "might" take early season is more inclined to get to walk late season. My thinking is he's fairly likely to be killed during the rut, but if he survived to post-rut, he has an excellent chance of getting another year older if I let him walk. So borderline bucks I might have taken in November get to walk in December.

Whether I kill a buck or go "buckless" doesn't change this, in that I don't lower my standards late season when I've not been able to take what I considered a shooter buck earlier. Should add I kill enough does for meat, so never have any need to kill a buck for the table.

By no means do I want to come across as "criticizing" anyone's preferences here, such as by saying some are more into their weapons than their hunting. Just curious as to why we have the preferences we have. Some will say I'm more into deer management than deer hunting, which may be true, although I do regularly kill quite a few deer (and usually with the most effective weapon that's legal to use).

Spoken like a man with GREAT private property land to hunt.

It never ceases to amaze me what a VAST difference there is in hunting philosophies between hunters who have opportunities to kill "does at will" and those who do not.

Wes,
I guess you have to be a hunter who, either by their own choice, or by their economic and time restricions, simply have VERY few and limited deer encounters.

There are many of us who do not see multiple DEER in a weeks hunt. Forget multiple bucks.
Many seasons I have sat in my stand for WEEKS and not laid eyes on a SINGLE solitary deer. But that is Public land hunting.

Do I lower my standards with a bow?
What standards?

I guess you could say I do. I am pretty sure both Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett recognize the difference.

It is, and always has been, MUCH more challenging to kill a deer, ANY DEER, with a bow and arrow, as compared to a gun.
PERIOD.

And ANY deer is potentially a trophy to ANY hunter with any weapon. Depends on the hunter.

102

 

[CBU93]

What difference does it make? You have your opinions, everyone else has theirs.

And to 102's point...opportunity has a great influence on many...much more so to me now than ever befroe.

I can remember a point in my life where I spent as much as 75% of available dates afield...and after I got grown to the point where I had to work full time, opportunities decrease. Where I once spent every weekend, all my vacation, and numerous mornings and evening afterwork hunting, scouting, and working at it...last year I got to hunt opening day of muzzle loader, opening day of rifle, and one addtional afternoon with a rifle in my hands...I was looking to kill ANYTHING those days. And with precious little time/no time to scout or property that I had access to, I had to rely on being placed in a position by friends...confidence lacks so standards decrease.

 

[easy45]

I hunt by age so it would be the same for me no matter what weapon I have as far as a buck goes

 

[easy45]

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)

I don't know of many places in Tennessee where I can see that many deer or bucks, I've seen that many deer maybe three times in 14 years and I hunted in one of the arguebly better areas in the state for about 7 years

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

Fairly common here. I saw 7-10 bucks on about 10 different hunts this past year. Part of it is because I am fairly selective.

 

[MUP]

Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)

I don't know of many places in Tennessee where I can see that many deer or bucks, I've seen that many deer maybe three times in 14 years and I hunted in one of the arguebly better areas in the state for about 7 years

Fairly common here. I saw 7-10 bucks on about 10 different hunts this past year. Part of it is because I am fairly selective. [/end quote]

Yep, I hear a lot of claims just like this thru out the year from middle and west Tn. More power to you guys, but it's just not that busy in the se part of the state for me.

 

[Football Hunter]

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)

Id like to get in on that,I see a lot of deer,but dont know of ever seeing 7 to 10 bucks at once,4 or 5 a few times

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)

I don't know of many places in Tennessee where I can see that many deer or bucks, I've seen that many deer maybe three times in 14 years and I hunted in one of the arguebly better areas in the state for about 7 years

Fairly common here. I saw 7-10 bucks on about 10 different hunts this past year. Part of it is because I am fairly selective. [/end quote]

Yep, I hear a lot of claims just like this thru out the year from middle and west Tn. More power to you guys, but it's just not that busy in the se part of the state for me.

I have hunted East Tennessee a little bit , and it is a totally different ball game for sure. It is alot tougher hunting in east Tennessee for sure. It isn't a claim though, it is a fact.

 

[102]

"Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who can consistently kill a deer, ANY deer, in SE Tennessee, with a bow, year after year, on PUBLIC land, is a GOOD hunter"

Fred Bear once spoke these words to a friend of mine at a public event years ago.

102

 

[Football Hunter]

"Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who can consistently kill a deer, ANY deer, in SE Tennessee, with a bow, year after year, on PUBLIC land, is a GOOD hunter"

Fred Bear once spoke these words to a friend of mine at a public event years ago.

102

I can only assume your right,as Ive never hunted that area.
But if hunting was that bad in the area I lived,I would be working as hard as I could to get to better places,life is too short.
You seem kind of mad about it though.

 

[WRbowhunter]

I for 1 think there is a difference in a bow kill and a gun kill. Sort of like the difference in hunting public land and hunting a game perserve. A dead deer is a dead deer Right? I hear people all the time on this site talk about going to the midwest and holding out for a 150 or 160 class deer and then coming back to TN and happy to kill a 130. What's the difference. Why settle for a 130 in TN when you passed the same size in Midwest. Maybe because the effort to kill a 130 inch deer in TN is the same as killing a 150 to 160 inch deer in the midwest? I think Pope and Young and Bone and Croocket have different standards for a reason. Kill what you want. I do.

 

[102]

"Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who can consistently kill a deer, ANY deer, in SE Tennessee, with a bow, year after year, on PUBLIC land, is a GOOD hunter"

Fred Bear once spoke these words to a friend of mine at a public event years ago.

102

I can only assume your right,as Ive never hunted that area.
But if hunting was that bad in the area I lived,I would be working as hard as I could to get to better places,life is too short.
You seem kind of mad about it though.

Too funny. Words written just don't show emotion.

Not mad at all.

And you are DEAD on about spreading out to other places.
I hunt ALL over the South. Including Southern Illinois.

I live near Chattanooga and hunt in the mountains near home. I know several guys who also hunt nearby woods.

It is VERY common for us to log MANY days on stand without a single solitary deer sighting. Even on some friends leases, where food plots and feeders are common, deer simply react TOO negatively to hunting pressure on nearby public lands.

But occasionally, I get the privilege of hunting really CHOICE ground on private property. I am always surprised at how many deer I see.

THere are places that we hunt that commonly yield sightings in the double digit each day, but not around here.

102

 

[muzzyman71]

I have offen dreamed of challenging Waddell, brad, will, bill jordan, all them guys. I bet they couldnt kill a 140 inch deer on Briceville mountain or any E tn area within 2 weeks. I know they woulnt have enough deer footage to make a show. IMO

 

[Vermin93]

I live near Chattanooga and hunt in the mountains near home. I know several guys who also hunt nearby woods.

It is VERY common for us to log MANY days on stand without a single solitary deer sighting. Even on some friends leases, where food plots and feeders are common, deer simply react TOO negatively to hunting pressure on nearby public lands.

Your comment just thoroughly depressed me. My mom (who's house is my TN hunting headquarters) is wanting to move from the Lenoir City area to Signal Mountain near Chattanooga. I may not see many bucks here in Loudon county, but at least I see does almost every time I hunt. Sounds like my deer hunting situation may be going from bad to worse. I hope you at least have some decent turkey numbers down there.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Wes,
There are many different opinions that reach to all aspects of the spectrum. Every single person has their own personal experiences for the decisions they choose. I personally, have very high standards. That in itself reflects on the number of 3 1/2 or older bucks I kill. I kill "on average" one 3 1/2 or older buck every 3 years. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE PROPERTY YOUR HUNTING. You know just as well as I do...You have to hunt where mature bucks exist. As mentioned in another thread, I hunted on a lease where I killed two 3 1/2 yo or older bucks for 3 years in a row. Granted, that was on a 4000 acre lease in the heart of Williamson county. Got kicked off for killing big bucks, when the "lease supervisors" wanted opening weekend hunters and not every weekend hunters - guys to pay the lease checks. I'm not going to say it was easy killing those bucks, but it wasnt NEARLY as hard as the place like I hunt now.....and thats 700 acres in Hickman County. You have to work HARD to kill a 3 1/2 or older buck there. Now, I do have an opportunity at a mature buck EVERY year, but somehow manage to distinguish that chance 75% of the time due to something going wrong. A decade ago, if I knew then what I know now, I can almost gaurantee you I could kill atleast 1 mature buck (and several 3 1/2's) every year on that place in Williamson County. When we had that lease, I was 15 - 17 years old (3 years).

Back to the topic...From the caliber of bucks that I have killed in the past, I would most certainly pass up bucks with a gun, but would most certainly shoot a few of those with a bow in a heartbeat. I have never killed a buck with a bow. Not that I couldnt....there have been years that I have passed up over 20 bucks with a bow, but wouldnt have the "satisfaction" of killing it no matter the weapon, reflecting on my kills in the past with a gun. I have let MANY 8 and 10 pt's go with a bow only because they were not up to my standards. Does, I have killed 4 out ofthe last 5 years on opening weekend....bucks to my standard in Hickman are a different animal. Location Location Location

BUT.....there have been MANY times I have had a gun in my hand and let a good 3 1/2 walk on by.....and I was thinking in my mind, "Man I wish I had a bow in my hand...I would have shot him in a heartbeat." It's all in everyones specific experiences and what they have encountered.

Point is, there are some bucks that I would shoot with a bow in a heartbeat, but with a gun, I'd have crosshairs on him and let him go. I love shooting deer with a bow. There is no higher peak than that.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

Mine are simple Wes. With my stupid exception of messing up last year, if I shoot it's because it's a buck I'll mount.

Now, that might or might not be lower with a bow. That's a game time decision, one I don't have to make very often although with the exception of one 4.5yr old 8pt that I lost, I've passed on all of them with a bow. I don't have the chance at many club legal bucks with a bow but I won't shoot a 7 or 8pt if I'm not mounting it so I've let a few walk on by. That big 8 was different and I still have nightmares of a "perfect" hit not turning into a recovery after 9 hours.

I'm a little different from you with age requirements and I applaud you with your discipline. I'd shoot a 2.5yr old that sported 120" of antler probably not even worrying about age. But then again, those are so rare I don't even worry about it. Not sure if I've ever seen one or had a picture of one on our place. Last three bucks I killed were 3.5, 5.5, 2.5 (idiot mistake) in that order and wish I had of passed on the 3.5 but not because of age, although I did mount him but he was borderline.