Scott Rhino and Punching?

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TboneD

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I've got a bad history of target panic/trigger punching and am wondering if a heavier trigger like the Scott Rhino XT might help. It comes with three springs so maybe that'll help if needed. Any opinions?


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Eric Kilby":2ek9b61z said:
To me that would make it worse would just punch it harder... need to work on correcting the issue instead of trying to bandaid

Thanks. I'm trying to decide between it and a Tru-fire Hardcore or Hardcore max.


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bloodtrailing":16gtu0h0 said:
Back tension release is the way to go.

I've thought of that but don't want to be too slow in hunting situations. I mean, I just watched a video where the guy confessed to only using one for practice, and a triggered release for hunting. Just watched a Winke video where he recommended using a Scott Longhorn Hunter, though.


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You can change to every release imaginable, but it will not cure the underlying problem. It really bugs me to hear people say change to this or that release to cure target panic, which punching is a form of it. Ever seen someone fighting with target panic trying to shoot a hinge--it ain't pretty and can be dangerous! Punching and target panic are mental blocks--I know because I
suffer from it. It's kind of like being an alcoholic, once you are one...you will always be one, you just may not drink--target panic is the same way.

I'm guessing you're having a hard time floating the pin on the target and want that arrow downrange before you miss ASAP. So, you are hammering the trigger as soon as you get near your aiming point? Am I in the ballpark?
 
If there was a trigger release that is suitable for back tension the Scott Rhino is one of the top picks! You set the trigger heavy so you can comfortably wrap your finger around the trigger without it going off. Once the finger is wrapped around the trigger pull through with your back muscles. This technique takes practice and devotion but the goal is a "surprise" release!
 
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TNDeerGuy":mz5xflu0 said:
You can change to every release imaginable, but it will not cure the underlying problem. It really bugs me to hear people say change to this or that release to cure target panic, which punching is a form of it. Ever seen someone fighting with target panic trying to shoot a hinge--it ain't pretty and can be dangerous! Punching and target panic are mental blocks--I know because I
suffer from it. It's kind of like being an alcoholic, once you are one...you will always be one, you just may not drink--target panic is the same way.

I'm guessing you're having a hard time floating the pin on the target and want that arrow downrange before you miss ASAP. So, you are hammering the trigger as soon as you get near your aiming point? Am I in the ballpark?

Sure. I quit shooting my compounds and sold them a few years back. It quit being fun when I realized I shot a lot better months after I first started shooting than years later....went traditional and shot a doe with a longbow but was quite the snap shooter. Anyhow, I haven't shot much yet this year but it hasn't been near as bad yet since I quit. I just can't shoot too much and have to know when to quit. Don't think I'll go with a hinge. Thanks for the advice.


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UTGrad":3ukx9hia said:
If there was a trigger release that is suitable for back tension the Scott Rhino is one of the top picks! You set the trigger heavy so you can comfortably wrap your finger around the trigger without it going off. Once the finger is wrapped around the trigger pull through with your back muscles. This technique takes practice and devotion but the goal is a "surprise" release!

That's what I've been thinking but I read where a lot of guys hate it. I don't know but to me it just doesn't make sense that a light trigger is the answer.


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Eric Kilby":2nlgz4yy said:
https://youtu.be/aNslq2UEiWM

Eric, thanks for the video. So based on his technique, would I be better with a swept back trigger? Which loop strap release do you think I'd be better off with, the Tru-fire Hardcore or the Hardcore max? Again, thanks a LOT for the video. Looks like a really good way to shoot to me and I'll have to try that method. Gotta be better than what I've been doing. Lol


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I do the same thing that is in the video, but I use my middle finger and the trigger is swept back. The trigger is personal preference, as you can do it with any release based on what feels right for you, but the key to the whole thing is having the correct amount of tension in the release—something on the medium-medium heavy side will work best, as you want to apply pressure without it going off.

As far as curing the underlying problem, there are two things you need to do. First one is blind-bale shooting—this will help with proper shot execution without your brain getting in the way. The second is an aiming technique, specifically designed to keep your brain from controlling the shot and building confidence—this will correct what is going on inside your brain and re-train your brain that you can hold on the target until YOU are ready to fire, and not the other way around. Get a blank pie-plate and step in front of it at 5yds. Draw and get the pin in the middle on the plate, let it float around, and count to five and then let down. If you can hold in the pie plate for at least 5 seconds, take a couple of steps back and repeat. Keep doing this as far back as you can go. However, it is extremely critical that you do not fire that arrow intentionally, or it will erase everything you have done. If you cannot get to 5 seconds without jerking, snatching, moving, etc.... start with 2 seconds and work your way up to 5 seconds. After you can get back to 40-50yds and can float the pin on the plate for 5 seconds, cut the size of the pie plate in half and repeat the entire process. After you can do that, then use a normal size target dot and repeat. Then apply what you have practiced, doing the same exact thing, except this time start shooting at close ranges (5-10yds) and working your way away from the target. At any point you start to feel anxiety creeping in, or can't hold to five, move forward until that anxiety is gone.

I know this sounds time consuming and you may not fire an arrow for weeks, but this is the best way to regain your confidence that you can hold on the target and re-train the brain that is controlling your shots. After completing these exercises, and including them into your practice sessions, you will become a better archer—this is good for anyone! I learned this from one of the country's top Olympic coaches and have read and talked to numerous Pro Shooters, World Champion Levi Morgan, being one of them, that these above methods are part of their practice routines to stay on top of their game.

If I can help let me know.
 
TNDeerGuy":3abnyhr8 said:
I do the same thing that is in the video, but I use my middle finger and the trigger is swept back. The trigger is personal preference, as you can do it with any release based on what feels right for you, but the key to the whole thing is having the correct amount of tension in the release—something on the medium-medium heavy side will work best, as you want to apply pressure without it going off.

As far as curing the underlying problem, there are two things you need to do. First one is blind-bale shooting—this will help with proper shot execution without your brain getting in the way. The second is an aiming technique, specifically designed to keep your brain from controlling the shot and building confidence—this will correct what is going on inside your brain and re-train your brain that you can hold on the target until YOU are ready to fire, and not the other way around. Get a blank pie-plate and step in front of it at 5yds. Draw and get the pin in the middle on the plate, let it float around, and count to five and then let down. If you can hold in the pie plate for at least 5 seconds, take a couple of steps back and repeat. Keep doing this as far back as you can go. However, it is extremely critical that you do not fire that arrow intentionally, or it will erase everything you have done. If you cannot get to 5 seconds without jerking, snatching, moving, etc.... start with 2 seconds and work your way up to 5 seconds. After you can get back to 40-50yds and can float the pin on the plate for 5 seconds, cut the size of the pie plate in half and repeat the entire process. After you can do that, then use a normal size target dot and repeat. Then apply what you have practiced, doing the same exact thing, except this time start shooting at close ranges (5-10yds) and working your way away from the target. At any point you start to feel anxiety creeping in, or can't hold to five, move forward until that anxiety is gone.

I know this sounds time consuming and you may not fire an arrow for weeks, but this is the best way to regain your confidence that you can hold on the target and re-train the brain that is controlling your shots. After completing these exercises, and including them into your practice sessions, you will become a better archer—this is good for anyone! I learned this from one of the country's top Olympic coaches and have read and talked to numerous Pro Shooters, World Champion Levi Morgan, being one of them, that these above methods are part of their practice routines to stay on top of their game.

If I can help let me know.

Thanks a bunch. I believe Ted Nugent has used that method and I'll be trying it as well. I know the worst thing I can do is just letting a few dozen arrows fly every day. Been there and done that and I've got to practice smart, not hard.

I gave my Bear bow to my son and am supposed to have a new PSE show up on the doorstep any day now. I'll post how it's going. It should've come in yesterday so I hope they deliver it today. It's a new ready to shoot package PSE X-force Drive that I found at a great price on eBay. Field and Stream rated it as the best of the budget to mid priced bows couple of years ago.


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TNDeerGuy":2nn7lke9 said:
I do the same thing that is in the video, but I use my middle finger and the trigger is swept back. The trigger is personal preference, as you can do it with any release based on what feels right for you, but the key to the whole thing is having the correct amount of tension in the release—something on the medium-medium heavy side will work best, as you want to apply pressure without it going off.

As far as curing the underlying problem, there are two things you need to do. First one is blind-bale shooting—this will help with proper shot execution without your brain getting in the way. The second is an aiming technique, specifically designed to keep your brain from controlling the shot and building confidence—this will correct what is going on inside your brain and re-train your brain that you can hold on the target until YOU are ready to fire, and not the other way around. Get a blank pie-plate and step in front of it at 5yds. Draw and get the pin in the middle on the plate, let it float around, and count to five and then let down. If you can hold in the pie plate for at least 5 seconds, take a couple of steps back and repeat. Keep doing this as far back as you can go. However, it is extremely critical that you do not fire that arrow intentionally, or it will erase everything you have done. If you cannot get to 5 seconds without jerking, snatching, moving, etc.... start with 2 seconds and work your way up to 5 seconds. After you can get back to 40-50yds and can float the pin on the plate for 5 seconds, cut the size of the pie plate in half and repeat the entire process. After you can do that, then use a normal size target dot and repeat. Then apply what you have practiced, doing the same exact thing, except this time start shooting at close ranges (5-10yds) and working your way away from the target. At any point you start to feel anxiety creeping in, or can't hold to five, move forward until that anxiety is gone.

I know this sounds time consuming and you may not fire an arrow for weeks, but this is the best way to regain your confidence that you can hold on the target and re-train the brain that is controlling your shots. After completing these exercises, and including them into your practice sessions, you will become a better archer—this is good for anyone! I learned this from one of the country's top Olympic coaches and have read and talked to numerous Pro Shooters, World Champion Levi Morgan, being one of them, that these above methods are part of their practice routines to stay on top of their game.

If I can help let me know.

Good info here

My ADD is too bad to type something like this up. Thanks Andy!
 
Thank God I don't really suffer from target panic but I'm no where near my son. I bought him his first rifle for his 8th or 9th bday and we had to wait a week or so for the scope. He turned 13 June 14th and we've never put the scope on. I took him to the range and with iron sights he could put every shot into a dime. I was expecting to teach him to shoot and instead just hammered safety and left his technique alone.

He took up archery 2-3 years ago taking lessons from Boo, Big J's daughter, and he is a wonder to watch whether shooting a rifle or bow. He has this ability to stand there like a statue and calmly just squeeze the trigger on a rifle or release. He hasn't Robin Hooded yet but I did have to start refletching myself he groups so close.

I'm afraid to give or ask for advice so as not to get into his head and make him think about things he hasn't.
 
AlexDad":14s7523e said:
Thank God I don't really suffer from target panic but I'm no where near my son. I bought him his first rifle for his 8th or 9th bday and we had to wait a week or so for the scope. He turned 13 June 14th and we've never put the scope on. I took him to the range and with iron sights he could put every shot into a dime. I was expecting to teach him to shoot and instead just hammered safety and left his technique alone.

He took up archery 2-3 years ago taking lessons from Boo, Big J's daughter, and he is a wonder to watch whether shooting a rifle or bow. He has this ability to stand there like a statue and calmly just squeeze the trigger on a rifle or release. He hasn't Robin Hooded yet but I did have to start refletching myself he groups so close.

I'm afraid to give or ask for advice so as not to get into his head and make him think about things he hasn't.

Very cool. You have every right to be proud.


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TboneD":1r8u841h said:
AlexDad":1r8u841h said:
Thank God I don't really suffer from target panic but I'm no where near my son. I bought him his first rifle for his 8th or 9th bday and we had to wait a week or so for the scope. He turned 13 June 14th and we've never put the scope on. I took him to the range and with iron sights he could put every shot into a dime. I was expecting to teach him to shoot and instead just hammered safety and left his technique alone.

He took up archery 2-3 years ago taking lessons from Boo, Big J's daughter, and he is a wonder to watch whether shooting a rifle or bow. He has this ability to stand there like a statue and calmly just squeeze the trigger on a rifle or release. He hasn't Robin Hooded yet but I did have to start refletching myself he groups so close.

I'm afraid to give or ask for advice so as not to get into his head and make him think about things he hasn't.

Very cool. You have every right to be proud.


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Thanks, I love that boy. My daughter too! She's just more interested in girl things. I get involved in things with her too because I love her, but she's only 5. We'll see if comes to Daddy's side or stays interested in Mommy things. Either way I adore both.
 
Punching a trigger that is set tougher only makes your miss worse because there is to much time between when the brain says shoot and when the release lets go of the D loop. If you are going to continue punching, you want to set it light.

With that said, you don't want to punch, you want to pull through the shot, instead of using the tip of your finger or your pad, you want to set the release down in the joint. Set the release tough enough so that it doesn't go off when touched.

Stare at what you want to hit and pull through the shot.

Start with blank baling, get close, draw, anchor, set your finger, close your eyes, feel the shot process....with eyes closed and being close to the target there is no fear of the arrow missing it's mark....you will be amazed at how easy it is to make the release go off.......you have to learn to trust your hold.

You have to decide....do you use your conscious thought (which can only do one thing at a time) to stare at the target, while your subconscious (can do a million things at one time---muscle memory) execute the pulling through the shot......or do you use your subconscious to stare at what you want to hit, while your conscious activates the release.

Either way, you are looking for a surprise release, many would say this makes it better to keep you focused on what you want to hit...and that is true, but with a surprise release you have a more natural follow thru of the bow arm.....vs exaggerated.

Good luck,

PM if you have any questions
 
gobblinfool":1scwx90f said:
Punching a trigger that is set tougher only makes your miss worse because there is to much time between when the brain says shoot and when the release lets go of the D loop. If you are going to continue punching, you want to set it light.

With that said, you don't want to punch, you want to pull through the shot, instead of using the tip of your finger or your pad, you want to set the release down in the joint. Set the release tough enough so that it doesn't go off when touched.

Stare at what you want to hit and pull through the shot.

Start with blank baling, get close, draw, anchor, set your finger, close your eyes, feel the shot process....with eyes closed and being close to the target there is no fear of the arrow missing it's mark....you will be amazed at how easy it is to make the release go off.......you have to learn to trust your hold.

You have to decide....do you use your conscious thought (which can only do one thing at a time) to stare at the target, while your subconscious (can do a million things at one time---muscle memory) execute the pulling through the shot......or do you use your subconscious to stare at what you want to hit, while your conscious activates the release.

Either way, you are looking for a surprise release, many would say this makes it better to keep you focused on what you want to hit...and that is true, but with a surprise release you have a more natural follow thru of the bow arm.....vs exaggerated.

Good luck,

PM if you have any questions

More good info.

When I was shooting wrist strap releases I tried that Spot Hogg Wiseguy. The Wiseguy can't be adjusted heavy only light. Couldn't get my finger on the trigger without it going off. I found the Carter Like Mike to be the best wrist strap release for how I wanted to shoot.
 
Eric Kilby":1phwogsw said:
https://youtu.be/aNslq2UEiWM

Eric, my PSE still hasn't come in yet but I shot the Bear Encounter I'm giving my son some this afternoon with him. I showed him this video on letting the strap move on your wrist when yielding to the shot and it worked pretty good for both of us. It would probably be better if my Redhead release didn't have quite as light a trigger, but anyhow, I wish I'd seen this method many years ago. Thanks again. Wish my bow would come in. Not happy right now with FEDEX. Ordered the bow a week ago and Georgia isn't that far!


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My new release came in today, a Tru-fire Chickenwing Max, and Iike it. After switching out for the single finger trigger, it's perfect. I was outside on the porch tonight executing shots by letting the strap slide forward like in the video Eric posted. Felt great.


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