Smokeless Savage ML II "dangers"
- Thread starter grouser
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Smokeless
ImThere
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Re: Savage ML II "dangers"
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Just people suing Savage because they double loaded their muzzleloader and it blew up. You can't fix stupid.
If you're referring to the most recent activity, Savage sent out a 'Safety Reminder' to original ML purchasers listing approved smokeless powders (interesting they recommend different powders than what went out originally with the rifles).grouser":3o300il4 said:
With nearly 150 different types of smokeless powders, unfortunately accidents occur. Not only with double loading, but overcharging, wrong powder, etc.. and who knows what people attempt to do - it's unfortunate for sure.
TN's own G. Hover lost a hand a few years ago with his Savage. Last I spoke with him, he had no interest in suing Savage. Many believe this Safety Reminder is Savage reacting to the lawsuits.
jlanecr500":1jxzcjcz said:
x2
Wobblyshot1
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Stupid is one thing but there are a lot of smart people who have made a mistake. Just to clear the air, I have no problem with anyone using what's legal during any hunting season. If you never make an error in loading one then you will be good to go and they will function as intended. However, a loading mistake in a smokeless muzzleloader could make things real interesting if not catastrophic....Be careful!!
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Wobblyshot1":1r89czy7 said:
Agreed. I should have used different language. Everyone makes mistakes and similar results can and have happened with black powder subs. The point is that those people should not sue Savage because they double loaded the gun and lost some digits. It is like blaming guns for killing people.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Yes, we all make mistakes.jlanecr500":d78j2goi said:
From what I can deduct, SOME of the Savage ML II's blowing up MAY not have been double loaded,
but likely were pushing the envelope with maximum (or beyond) "recommended" loads.
Some of these loads may have been posted as "hot" loads many have used without problems on various internet boards.
Like you, I do speculate that more of these blowing-up issues were the result of user error, i.e. double-loading.
And agree this would not be a reason to sue Savage.
But no, similar results generally might not happen with other black powder subs, such as BH209, Pyrodex, etc. which are not modern smokeless high-power rifle powders like we're using in our Savage and other "smokeless" muzzleloaders.
Not recommending you do this, but if you double load with Pryodex, it will probably do little to harm you or your gun. If you double load any modern smokeless high-power rifle powder, it will likely blow up your barrel, and likely cause you some serious & permanent injury.
The key difference I'm trying to point out is this:
A handloader (or factory ammo plant) is not likely to double-load a modern rifle cartridge case, due to the physical limitations of that cartridge case. That case (and the protruding bullet) end up as a single "unit" we call a modern cartridge.
Things are different with a muzzleloader using modern powders designed for a cartridge case,
particularly with the likelihood of human error. By comparison to a pre-loaded cartridge/bullet "unit",
it is comparatively easy to double-load either the powder or the bullet in a muzzleloader.
To their credit, I believe Savage has done an excellent job in communicating the risks.
But for any of us to understate these risks is
kinda like saying it's not much more risky to smoke cigarettes around gasoline as to smoke around water,
since it will only be human error that causes an explosion.
