Rifle accuracy issues

[Dodge Man]

My brother has a new Model 700 Long Range in 7mm, it has the Bell and Carlson M40 tactical stock. It has a Nightforce scope, Vortex tactical mounts mounted and torqued down with lock tight. Shooting HSM Trophy Gold 168gr ammo.

We shoot several different boxes of ammo through it last year trying to break it in and set the scope for hunting season. We could never get it to shoot better then a 3 in group with factory Remington ammo or Hornady ammo. This year he is trying to set the scope and has shot a full box of the HSM Trophy Gold and its shooting a 10-12in group at 200 yards when shooting from a Lead sled with 2 different people shooing it to make sure it is not user error.


Any suggestions on getting the riffle to shoot more accurate or what trouble shooting steps we should try to get the gun shooting better? First plan is to try shooing from sand bags and a different shooing table. He is leaving next week to go out West on a Elk hunt so we need to get this rifle shooting ASAP.

 

[Mr. Chitlin]

Remove and retighten everything. Also try a different scope. Even top of the line equipment can be faulty.

Make sure the bore is clean. No crown damage.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Jcalder]

Check the usual. Scope mounts and bases. See if it's floated. And throw the lead sled over a hill and get some sand bags.

I'm not familiar with a 7mm but the twist may not be able to stabilize those heavy bullets. May try something lighter in the 140 range


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[DaveB]

all the above except the 168 bullet should be fine, I say should be. Crown is okay? B&C is not in contact with barrel?

I woulda swapped that scope out about the 10th round. Everything new is suspect when the rifle is not living up to routine expectations

The sled could be the main cause, rifle is bouncing because shooter is depending upon the sled to hold things in place.

7Mag recoil is manageable. worst case get a PAST recoil shield.

Can you report back the shot by shot location. Is it string vertically? Horizontally? at random and if so define location please?

 

[Rubberduck270]

As some have stated above, get ALL the copper out of it and check the crown. Also, check to make sure the magazine box isn't bound up between the bottom metal and the action (you should be able to wiggle it after both action screws are torqued down) and don't let the barrel get too hot. I'd go no more than 3 rounds before I let the barrel cool back off to ambient temp (i.e. shoot 3 back to back then stand it up with the bolt open and let it cool back off). Hot factory barrels do some weird stuff whether they are free floated or not.

 

[Dodge Man]

all the above except the 168 bullet should be fine, I say should be. Crown is okay? B&C is not in contact with barrel?

I woulda swapped that scope out about the 10th round. Everything new is suspect when the rifle is not living up to routine expectations

The sled could be the main cause, rifle is bouncing because shooter is depending upon the sled to hold things in place.

7Mag recoil is manageable. worst case get a PAST recoil shield.

Can you report back the shot by shot location. Is it string vertically? Horizontally? at random and if so define location please?

Shots were scattered at random, 2 4 in low and to the left, next 1 4 in right of center, next 2 3in high and 3 in to the left.

 

[Dodge Man]

As some have stated above, get ALL the copper out of it and check the crown. Also, check to make sure the magazine box isn't bound up between the bottom metal and the action (you should be able to wiggle it after both action screws are torqued down) and don't let the barrel get too hot. I'd go no more than 3 rounds before I let the barrel cool back off to ambient temp (i.e. shoot 3 back to back then stand it up with the bolt open and let it cool back off). Hot factory barrels do some weird stuff whether they are free floated or not.

Bell and Carlson M40 tactical stock
Aluminum bedding block
Heavy contour barrel
Concave target-style barrel crown
X-Mark Pro externally adjustable trigger


Its basically a brand new gun, never been taking into the woods or done much other then shot at a target. I will look at the Crown but I don't think there should be any damage there.

 

[DaveB]

Okay, 90% of the time the trouble as you have laid out is due to a faulty scope. Mounts are loose or scope is broke.

Now, it could be something else-chamber bad, crown ruined, messed up ammo. But it seems like the scope has failed.

For now, swap the scope out and please do not use the lead sled.


(Just between you and me, Strictly as an opinion, the sled broke the scope. You would not be the first)

 

[280longshot]

Sounds like a scope/ mounts/ or similar issue.
That's why I only use sand bags.

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[Dodge Man]

Okay, 90% of the time the trouble as you have laid out is due to a faulty scope. Mounts are loose or scope is broke.

Now, it could be something else-chamber bad, crown ruined, messed up ammo. But it seems like the scope has failed.

For now, swap the scope out and please do not use the lead sled.


(Just between you and me, Strictly as an opinion, the sled broke the scope. You would not be the first)

I was wrong it is not a Nightforce scope it is a Vortex Viper 30mm PST 6x24x50. But it is brand new out of the box also. This was the first time using a lead sled. We have always used sand bags in the past. I don't think shoot a few rounds(less than a box) through the gun in the lead sled would break a higher end scope like a Vortex would it?


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[Stykbow]

I had an Encore do the exact same thing. Had a Simmons scope on it and the recoil from a 300 win mag beat it to death. Put a new scope on it and that fixed the issue.


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[TNRifleman]

On top of what others have said, check the crown of the barrel to make sure it doesn't have a nick in it.

I have had a 700 Long Range in 30-06 and it was not the shooter that I expected for a 10-12 lb. rig.

Any idea what type of hunting he will be doing and what a likely shot distance will be. I took my Tikka's as the Long Range would have been awfully heavy to carry into the elk woods.

 

[Dodge Man]

On top of what others have said, check the crown of the barrel to make sure it doesn't have a nick in it.

I have had a 700 Long Range in 30-06 and it was not the shooter that I expected for a 10-12 lb. rig.

Any idea what type of hunting he will be doing and what a likely shot distance will be. I took my Tikka's as the Long Range would have been awfully heavy to carry into the elk woods.

They are driving in to camp for 7 days. I think they can drive the truck to where they plan to camp. But they will be at higher elevations and walking pretty good distance each day. He is trying to plan for a shot max of 400-500 yrds.


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[TNRifleman]

On top of what others have said, check the crown of the barrel to make sure it doesn't have a nick in it.

I have had a 700 Long Range in 30-06 and it was not the shooter that I expected for a 10-12 lb. rig.

Any idea what type of hunting he will be doing and what a likely shot distance will be. I took my Tikka's as the Long Range would have been awfully heavy to carry into the elk woods.

They are driving in to camp for 7 days. I think they can drive the truck to where they plan to camp. But they will be at higher elevations and walking pretty good distance each day. He is trying to plan for a shot max of 400-500 yrds.


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Not to be a jerk but if he is just getting the rifle zeroed this close to his hunt, has he been practicing for a 4-500 yard shot? The good news is that most shots on elk will likely be inside of 200 yards.

 

[Roost 1]

I have this same gun and actually shot it today. I'm amazed at the accuracy I'm getting. I broke the gun in with Remington core-lokts 150gr and then switched to 140gr Barnes ttsx.. shooting less than moa at 300yds, which is the max distance at range. I have a leupold vx3 on mine. There was another guy at the range that told me had same gun in the 300wm and 25-06 and they both were tack drivers as well.. I hope you get problem solved. I'd remount scope including bases..

 

[double browtine]

I think you have a broken scope. I have a 300 win mag. It broke a really nice high end Simmons scope. It was all over the target at 100 yards. I replaced it with a new Burris and new mounts. Almost touching holes at 100 yards now with off the shelf hornady ammo.

 

[jlanecr500]

Okay, 90% of the time the trouble as you have laid out is due to a faulty scope. Mounts are loose or scope is broke.

Now, it could be something else-chamber bad, crown ruined, messed up ammo. But it seems like the scope has failed.

For now, swap the scope out and please do not use the lead sled.


(Just between you and me, Strictly as an opinion, the sled broke the scope. You would not be the first)

I was wrong it is not a Nightforce scope it is a Vortex Viper 30mm PST 6x24x50. But it is brand new out of the box also. This was the first time using a lead sled. We have always used sand bags in the past. I don't think shoot a few rounds(less than a box) through the gun in the lead sled would break a higher end scope like a Vortex would it?

A lead sled can break ANY scope. I own 2 Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16×50 scopes. One was on my long range 45 smokeless muzzleloader shooting a 300 gr projectile at 2950 fps. At the time it did not have a muzzle brake and it kicked like no other magnum that I have ever shot. It killed the Vortex scope and never once was a lead sled involved. That said, install a known good scope and try again. That is the only way to eliminate doubt. Try some hornaday btsp ammo.


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[user 14220]

Did you try rebedding the stock?

 

[TresMon]

I have 3 Vortex Viper PST scopes and they have given no trouble. One is on a heavy recoiling magnum.

I say it scope trouble because...

Lead sleds are known to break scopes. There's not enough give to the weighted sled.

 

[Hammer]

Have you tried the scope on a different rifle?

 

[Dodge Man]

Have you tried the scope on a different rifle?

We tried a different a different scope today with no change.

A few more things of note before I go over what I have tried. He installed a new Timney trigger in the gun when he bought it. Also the bolt is jamming almost every shot and that is with 6 different brands of ammo and 5 different built weights.

Over the weekend we took the first scope off and made sure all screws were tight. I took the stock off and checked every screw, checked the trigger assembly and then put it all back together making sure everything is tight. We ran a bore snake down the barrel and a wire brush for a 7mm down the barrel 10 times before shooting again.

We shot 50 rounds of Winchester 175gr ammo through the gun, shooting off sandbags, cleaning the barrel 3 times with a 7mm wire brush between each shot and giving the barrel time to cool before the next shot. Some times we could get a 3 shot group around a 1" group and then the next 2-3 shots would string 5-6 inches high and then I would get one 2" low and 6" left. Basically at 100 yards I'm still getting a 6"+ maybe 8"+ 5 shot group and 10 shots could be 10-12" group.

We have about made up our mind there is an issue with the chamber of the gun, something is causing the case to jam and make the bolt very hard to remove after firing.

 

[Dodge Man]

On top of what others have said, check the crown of the barrel to make sure it doesn't have a nick in it.

I have had a 700 Long Range in 30-06 and it was not the shooter that I expected for a 10-12 lb. rig.

Any idea what type of hunting he will be doing and what a likely shot distance will be. I took my Tikka's as the Long Range would have been awfully heavy to carry into the elk woods.

They are driving in to camp for 7 days. I think they can drive the truck to where they plan to camp. But they will be at higher elevations and walking pretty good distance each day. He is trying to plan for a shot max of 400-500 yrds.


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Not to be a jerk but if he is just getting the rifle zeroed this close to his hunt, has he been practicing for a 4-500 yard shot? The good news is that most shots on elk will likely be inside of 200 yards.

He has practiced and has no trouble making longer shots with other rifles. He just bought this one hoping to turn it into his long range gun for different hunts that he thought might require a long shot. We have been trying to get this gun to shoot a good group every since he bought it last fall with no luck. He has other rifles avable to take on this trip but was hopping to take this one just because he has quite a bit of money and time invested in it. But at the very least we are trying to get the gun to shoot good for it to be used for hunting around here or on a future hunt.

 

[Dodge Man]

Today he had a friend that works on rifles and has a ton of shooting experience take the gun. He shot groups with 4 different brands of ammo and bullet weights with no good groups. He then replaced the scope with a scope the works great and is proven on another rifle. Then shot some groups with the same different ammo and the groups are still all over the place.

 

[TNRifleman]

Man, what an odd problem. Glad he has a backup rifle so it won't screw up his hunt. Hopefully he will get a shot at one and then come home and be able to fix the Remington issue afterwards.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I have a 700 varmint that I am struggling with as well in 308. I've tried a couple different hornady cartridges, a couple Remington, and a Winchester averaging 4", best around 2" all at 100yds. I worked up some loads in Lapua brass and Sierra match kings to no avail trying n-140 and imr 4350. No beans. I have some IMI target rounds that shot the same. Some ADA surplus that shot the same. I had 20rds of some hand loads that came with another rifle that I have no idea what primer, powder or bullet that shot under an inch... so I now know the rifle will do it, but I have no idea what it was. I was too excited and dumb to have saved one and pulled it down when it was shooting good.

 

[Mr. Chitlin]

I would guess you have made sure the barrel is not contacting the stock along the barrel channel.

Just grasping for straws making sure something simple is not overlooked.

 

[Widowmaker]

Have you tried the scope on a different rifle?

We tried a different a different scope today with no change.

A few more things of note before I go over what I have tried. He installed a new Timney trigger in the gun when he bought it. Also the bolt is jamming almost every shot and that is with 6 different brands of ammo and 5 different built weights.

Is the bolt jamming when chambering or after it's fired?

 

[DaveB]

I would be on the phone to Remington.

Your chamber has too much clearance.

 

[smalljawbasser]

x2 DaveB. if it's jamming, or not funcitoning correctly - stop shooting it!

call remington.

 

[DaveB]

Okay, its a belted magnum and the fact the rounds are difficult to extract means your cartridge is not far enough into the chamber to be properly supported. So the brass can expand and lock itself into the chamber which is what you are seeing.

You won't see any primer flattening because the belt positions the brass in the chamber and the bolt locks around the rim, a solid lock up. But the chamber is wrong. I am assuming the line of information on the barrel is in the correct location, not a little bit higher than normal. No one tried to swap barrels, right?

Yes, I would call Remmie and go from there.