Savage Knight
Well-Known Member
thinking about giving them a go in my 243. what do guys have to say about them how is the preformace on deer? ive watched the video from barnes and love what it shows just like to have a little more input thanks
reviews on barnes tsx?
- Thread starter Savage Knight
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ratsnakeboogy
Well-Known Member
85 grain TSX in the .243 is like hitting a deer with a lightning bolt. I've never had one not pass through, and the wound channel is devastating.
my 700 7mm08 loves them, and the deer hate them....
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
My cousin swears by them, but I've never been able to get them to shoot quite as good as accubonds or ballistic tips in my rifles, so I gave up on them a few years ago.
They also left a bad taste in my mouth several years ago when they published and advertised some of the best BC's out there. When noone was seeing in the real world anything close to their BC's, they got called on the carpet and admitted their previously published numbers were WAY off.
They also left a bad taste in my mouth several years ago when they published and advertised some of the best BC's out there. When noone was seeing in the real world anything close to their BC's, they got called on the carpet and admitted their previously published numbers were WAY off.
Megalomaniac,
Your deer are obviously bigger(for real) and smarter than the ones I have shot with them! Mine can't even read, let alone do math!HA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient
Your deer are obviously bigger(for real) and smarter than the ones I have shot with them! Mine can't even read, let alone do math!HA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient
Hogbear
Well-Known Member
ratsnakeboogy said:
I've had one .243 Barnes X not pass through. I shot a big buck that was facing me square in the chest from about 100 yds. He dropped in his tracks and twitched his legs a little and then laid still. I found the bullet in his stomach with some acorns when I was dressing him out.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
7mm08 said:
My deer can't read or do math either, but I can :)
And it's getting to the point where a bunch of hunters/shooters can as well. If barnes wanted to advertise their bullets as 'tough monolithic projectiles with a crappy BC almost guaranteed a passthrough', I wouldn't have a problem. But to advertise G1 ballistic coefficients as superior to their competitors, then backpeddle and admit to G1 numbers even worse than their competitors G7 BC's is almost unforgivable. I will admit that they have redesigned several of their older bullets and created newer bullets with improved BC's in the past few years, however.
All I can say about Barnes... if you're going to do any long range hunting with them, better shoot them in the real world at real distances and get real DOPE (disclaimer- but of course this also applies to all other bullets by all other manufacturers... ie, don't try this at home until after you've worked out your drops)
Oh, and it also pisses me off that they're 3x the cost of other bullets that perform just as well :) but at least you're not polluting the environment with all that toxic lead. (that'll make the tree huggers happy as you kill bambi :) )
ratsnakeboogy
Well-Known Member
megalomaniac said:
I couldn't get mine to group to well until I started loading them .05 off the lands. With this little "jump" into the lands they tightened right up.
ratsnakeboogy
Well-Known Member
Hogbear said:
Still a nice result though, wouldn't you agree? :D
ratsnakeboogy
Well-Known Member
megalomaniac said:
$.50 - $.60 isn't to bad for .243 bullets. I know people that spend $7-$10 a shot on slug loads, that would piss me off.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
HatchieLuvr said:
Personally, I'm shooting steel at 600-1000 yards and game from 400-800 yards.
HatchieLuvr said:
You must be confused, because understanding and maximizing BC's have become tantamount to ethically hunting beyond 300 yards, especially in .308 parent cases.
HatchieLuvr said:
That extra 1" group at 100 yards translates to an extra 6" group at 600 yards, or essentially the difference between a quick double lung kill or a gut shot.
HatchieLuvr said:
I actually prefer not to blood trail the game at all, but rather prefer bang-flop's... so even a QUADRAPLEGIC Ray Charles could easily recover the game. I'm now up to 20 consecutive bang-flops at game over 250 yards. Part of that has to do with the bullet construction itself, another part has to do with the improved precision in shot placement by using a more accurate bullet.
As far as Barnes achieving full penetration and leaving a better blood trail than anyone else, I'd recommend you take a look at the Nosler Partition. Although it was invented decades before the Barnes, you'll find it's terminal performance on game almost identical.
Again though, I'm not really bashing them... they excel at what they do- "tough monolithic projectiles with a crappy BC almost guaranteed a passthrough" as I put it before, which describes them to a T.
One really cool thing about Barnes bullets is that if you can send them fast enough at impact on game, they'll shear off all the petals and send them slicing off in different directions inside the animal. I've seen that several times, and the result was quite impressive.
Model70Man
Well-Known Member
megalomaniac said:
This is a recovered 120 gr TSX from my 7mm WSM. Muzzle velocity was 3600+ fps. The deer was maybe 10 yds, if that far, from my tree when I shot him. Impact velocity had to be at least 3600 fps. Kimberman found a trail of hair about 15 ft long on the leaves that led to the base of a tree. We found the bullet about 5 inches deep in the ground smashed up against a rock. All the petals were blown off.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
I'd say I have a fair amount of 'real world' experience to go with the tens of thousands of rounds on paper.'
This will be my 29th year for big game hunting. I quit counting after 50 kills, but I would estimate I've got a few over 200 big game animals thus far. Of course, that includes around 25 with a bow and another 40 or 50 with a ML.
Probably 50-60 rifle kills with the ballistic tips, another 30-40 with Accubonds (including 2 red stags at around 450-500lbs), and the remainder with various bullets from cheap core-lokts to barnes to bergers. I can honestly say I've never had a 'bullet failure'- each bullet did exactly what I expected it to do- except for one... oddly enough, it was a Barnes 'red-hot' 180gr ML bullet. Shot a buck at 4 yards quartering towards me at around 1700fps. He ran off 150 yards before dying. I recovered the bullet in the offside ham and it hadn't expanded one bit.
I didn't get into the long range hunting arena until about 8 years ago, although I had shot at 500 yards on paper for several years before that. I never said I had "250+ bangflops" to my credit, not sure where you misunderstood that, but that my current streak stands at 20 bang-flops at distances from 250-700 yards. Probably 40 out of my last 50 rifle kills have been bang-flops. But I'm placing the bullet 1/3 of the way down the animal straight up the front leg. Plenty of CNS disruption to go along with 2 broken shoulders and deflated lungs.
I don't hunt with the sole intention of shooting 500+ yards when I go out, but the spots I set up at are chosen to minimize intrusion/ spooking game during the hunt. Most places I'm just as likely to kill a deer at 75 yards as I am 600. But in order to do that, I need the most precise bullet available. And in my guns, that always seems to be the BT's, Accubonds, or the Bergers.
This will be my 29th year for big game hunting. I quit counting after 50 kills, but I would estimate I've got a few over 200 big game animals thus far. Of course, that includes around 25 with a bow and another 40 or 50 with a ML.
Probably 50-60 rifle kills with the ballistic tips, another 30-40 with Accubonds (including 2 red stags at around 450-500lbs), and the remainder with various bullets from cheap core-lokts to barnes to bergers. I can honestly say I've never had a 'bullet failure'- each bullet did exactly what I expected it to do- except for one... oddly enough, it was a Barnes 'red-hot' 180gr ML bullet. Shot a buck at 4 yards quartering towards me at around 1700fps. He ran off 150 yards before dying. I recovered the bullet in the offside ham and it hadn't expanded one bit.
I didn't get into the long range hunting arena until about 8 years ago, although I had shot at 500 yards on paper for several years before that. I never said I had "250+ bangflops" to my credit, not sure where you misunderstood that, but that my current streak stands at 20 bang-flops at distances from 250-700 yards. Probably 40 out of my last 50 rifle kills have been bang-flops. But I'm placing the bullet 1/3 of the way down the animal straight up the front leg. Plenty of CNS disruption to go along with 2 broken shoulders and deflated lungs.
I don't hunt with the sole intention of shooting 500+ yards when I go out, but the spots I set up at are chosen to minimize intrusion/ spooking game during the hunt. Most places I'm just as likely to kill a deer at 75 yards as I am 600. But in order to do that, I need the most precise bullet available. And in my guns, that always seems to be the BT's, Accubonds, or the Bergers.
Model70Man
Well-Known Member
HatchieLuvr,
I do have an idea of what the bullet looked like. This is a recovered Barnes XLC from a 270 Win at about 2900 fps. The shot on the deer was 30 yds. I also found this bullet the same way I found the other. The lower velocity didn't cause the petals to blow off. You can clearly see that the higher velocity of 3600 is too much for the Barnes and the petals blew off when it hit the deer. You can clearly see the rotational shearing on the bullet and where the bullet hit the rock in the 7mm bullet.
I do have an idea of what the bullet looked like. This is a recovered Barnes XLC from a 270 Win at about 2900 fps. The shot on the deer was 30 yds. I also found this bullet the same way I found the other. The lower velocity didn't cause the petals to blow off. You can clearly see that the higher velocity of 3600 is too much for the Barnes and the petals blew off when it hit the deer. You can clearly see the rotational shearing on the bullet and where the bullet hit the rock in the 7mm bullet.
Savage Knight
Well-Known Member
awesome! now I need to go to the range lol I liked the 180gr redhots myself killed 2 with one shot, deer in the rear dropped its head about the same time I pulled the trigger, bullet passed threw and hit it in the throat. the smoke cleared and they fell belly to belly
meat hunter
Well-Known Member
Barnes is the only projectile that will ever leave the end of any of my deer rifles. 38 years of hunting and 25 years of deer/hog processing have shown me that there is not another bullet made that will put meat on the table as well as the Barnes. The only problem I have with Barnes is that they can't be had in a rimfire cartridge. :)
Hogbear
Well-Known Member
meat hunter said:
That would be awesome to have some tiny little TSX bullets for my .17 HMR.
meat hunter
Well-Known Member
Hogbear said:
Oh lord don't you know it. TTSX even better. I bet it has been explored.
OK you dang projectile geniusesesese.
explain to me why this happens. I have heard this before and don't understand why...construction/design?
From Megalomaniacs post..
"Shot a buck at 4 yards quartering towards me at around 1700fps. He ran off 150 yards before dying. I recovered the bullet in the offside ham and it hadn't expanded one bit."
Thanks
explain to me why this happens. I have heard this before and don't understand why...construction/design?
From Megalomaniacs post..
"Shot a buck at 4 yards quartering towards me at around 1700fps. He ran off 150 yards before dying. I recovered the bullet in the offside ham and it hadn't expanded one bit."
Thanks
7mm08 said:
to put it simply, bullets perform best in the range of impact velocities in which they were designed.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Exactly...
When Barnes came out with the 'red hot' muzzleloader bullets, they were not designed for muzzleloaders. They were constructed similarly to rifle bullets designed for 3000 fps MV's.
The ML bullet was only going 1700 fps, which just wasn't fast enough for the original barnes 'red hot' bullet to even open up. Pretty stupid to market a 'ML bullet' which would not even expand at ML velocities. Fortunately, the 50 cal hole it drives without any expansion is still adequate to kill deer, you just have to track them like they were shot with a bow.
All bullets are designed and constructed with optimal impact velocities for expansion without disintegration. Things like hardness of the lead, jacket thickness, bonding of jacket to core, and in the case of Barnes, number of times the metal is annealed all factor into terminal performance at varying velocities. All bullets made will fail if you can push them fast enough, likewise all bullets will fail to expand if they impact too slow. (most guys shooting the heavy 30 cal bullets subsonic expect virtually no expansion on impact.
Remember when the sabots first came out for ML's? The reason they worked so much better than the old patch and ball and buffalo bullets was that they utilized 44cal handgun bullets designed to expand at impact velocities of 800-1500 fps... just perfect for a ML from 50 to 200 yards.
The most innovative bullet designers actually give you the choice of jacket thickness, lead hardness, and number of times the jacket is annealed. Hawk's bullets come to mind... for example, they make a big 200 gr 30 cal roundnose bullet (ideal for deep penetration or even subsonic loads). They offer jacket thickness is this same bullet in 25 thouandths, 30 thousandths, and 35 thousandths. In addition, if you call them, they will anneal the jacket an extra time or two to make the copper extra malleable, providing for rapid expansion even at low impact velocities (ie encore handgun rounds or subsonic applications). Of course the big bullet manufacturers to maximize profit aren't able to offer this kind of variety.
When Barnes came out with the 'red hot' muzzleloader bullets, they were not designed for muzzleloaders. They were constructed similarly to rifle bullets designed for 3000 fps MV's.
The ML bullet was only going 1700 fps, which just wasn't fast enough for the original barnes 'red hot' bullet to even open up. Pretty stupid to market a 'ML bullet' which would not even expand at ML velocities. Fortunately, the 50 cal hole it drives without any expansion is still adequate to kill deer, you just have to track them like they were shot with a bow.
All bullets are designed and constructed with optimal impact velocities for expansion without disintegration. Things like hardness of the lead, jacket thickness, bonding of jacket to core, and in the case of Barnes, number of times the metal is annealed all factor into terminal performance at varying velocities. All bullets made will fail if you can push them fast enough, likewise all bullets will fail to expand if they impact too slow. (most guys shooting the heavy 30 cal bullets subsonic expect virtually no expansion on impact.
Remember when the sabots first came out for ML's? The reason they worked so much better than the old patch and ball and buffalo bullets was that they utilized 44cal handgun bullets designed to expand at impact velocities of 800-1500 fps... just perfect for a ML from 50 to 200 yards.
The most innovative bullet designers actually give you the choice of jacket thickness, lead hardness, and number of times the jacket is annealed. Hawk's bullets come to mind... for example, they make a big 200 gr 30 cal roundnose bullet (ideal for deep penetration or even subsonic loads). They offer jacket thickness is this same bullet in 25 thouandths, 30 thousandths, and 35 thousandths. In addition, if you call them, they will anneal the jacket an extra time or two to make the copper extra malleable, providing for rapid expansion even at low impact velocities (ie encore handgun rounds or subsonic applications). Of course the big bullet manufacturers to maximize profit aren't able to offer this kind of variety.
Thanks....saved me about an hour or two of searching the internet..interesting read.
skynimrod
Well-Known Member
I like the Barnes bullets. I use the triple shock with my 270 WSM Elk & Bear hunting. I use & love the Barnes 290 gr Blue tip for my ML. BUT I think it is over kill & penetration with my modern rifle setups for deer here in Tn though. I like a little softer bullet & more mushroom like the Interbond for my 270 WSM, DeepCurl for my 338-06, Gold Dots for my 444 from my wet media bullet tests & actual deer kills. Always work in progress though, and I look forward every year to try out different bullets on game for that Bang Flop & Great Accuracy. Great Post Guys!!!
