Range results

[cecil30-30]

Took the savage back to the range,only thing I changed was how much powder I used.I went from 43grs of AA5744 to 44grs. Still didn't get the results I wanted.Im going to bass pro here in a few,gonna pick up some 300gr xtp's and try them out with 44grs of AA5744 tomorrow. Heres a question,I guess its just a habit,but i've been cleaning my barrel everytime Im done shooting with it,just like my old muzzleloader that used blackpowder.Should I leave it dirty,and just clean the breech plug after every use? I heard you should only clean them about every 100 shots.I was able to find 2 of my sabots,can you tell anything from them? Are they doing what they should be doing? Between shots 1 and 2 I waited 10mins.. Between shots 2 and 3 I waited 15 mins. And between shots 3 and 4 I waited 15 mins.I used a stop watch.And the temperature read 68 degrees on my truck..

 

[ratsnakeboogy]

Sabots look good, don't clean the dang thing! My Remington's wont start holding a group until after 3 or 4 fouling shots.

What's your loading pressure? Everything I have that I use sabots in likes tight loading pressure. Try the red sabots maybe, or knurl the bullets up a bit.

 

[cecil30-30]

The sabots are fairly tight when loading.They aren't easy to load but they aren't hard to load either.What red sabots you talking about?

 

[ratsnakeboogy]

I think Harvester makes a red sabot that fits tighter.

 

[MRUTVOL]

Took the savage back to the range,only thing I changed was how much powder I used.I went from 43grs of AA5744 to 44grs. Still didn't get the results I wanted.Im going to bass pro here in a few,gonna pick up some 300gr xtp's and try them out with 44grs of AA5744 tomorrow. Heres a question,I guess its just a habit,but i've been cleaning my barrel everytime Im done shooting with it,just like my old muzzleloader that used blackpowder.Should I leave it dirty,and just clean the breech plug after every use? I heard you should only clean them about every 100 shots.I was able to find 2 of my sabots,can you tell anything from them? Are they doing what they should be doing? Between shots 1 and 2 I waited 10mins.. Between shots 2 and 3 I waited 15 mins. And between shots 3 and 4 I waited 15 mins.I used a stop watch.And the temperature read 68 degrees on my truck..

Ok let me see if I can help you some. First there is no need to clean after every shot. Most Savage I have seen and had like a fouled or dirty barrel. Cleaning the breechplug after 30 to 50 shots of carbon build up is helpful but not after every shot by no means.
Next make sure you are using the correct bullets and sabots . Reason I say this is in the pictures it looks like you are using the long petal black sabot. For the 250 grain xtp you should be using the short petal one. It could just be the pick I see.
Bullet note: it is easy to confuse the Hornady XTP "Mag" with the standard Hornady XTP. The standard .452 Hornady XTP generally groups extremely well, the XTP "Mag" bullets do not from my experiences. Stay with the MMP brand of sabots if possible. They were designed more for the savage gun than most others are.
Sabot note: get current formulation sabots direct from http://mmpsabots.com . IMO that's the only way to insure current formulation product, and consistent accuracy. They are relatively cheap.
As for the bullet you are using the MMP short black sabot and Hornady .452 XTP Start load is around 40 gr. Accurate Arms 5744.
Do not exceed load 45 gr. I have used 43 gr. with some success.
The Barnes expander bullets of 250 gr and 300 gr with the long petal black sabot have done well also in some I have shot.I personally like the heavier 300 gr, bullets in my guns. They just seem to group better for me..

You can tie up a lot of $$$ switching around to different powders and bullets if you are not careful. You should be able to get a good grouping with either of those bullets once you get them matched up right with load and sabots. Then you can start to explore various other loads in the future. There could be a scope issue going on if you continue to have issues with it holding group. Hopefully this can help you out. Good luck to you and hang in there it is just a matter of time b/4 you will have what you want.

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

Cecil, I interpret your post to mean that you do not clean between shots, but you do clean at the end if every range session. If that is the case, then the target above is exactly what I would expect to see from an accurate gun with a well-tuned load--then again, it may not be accurate or tuned.

What I mean is that you must either clean between every shot or shoot some fouling shots at the beginning of a range session. Those first one or two shots out of a clean barrel will not land in the same place as shots from a fouled barrel. So, if you cleaned the barrel before this range session and did not shoot any fouling shots, and you did not clean fully betwen every shot today, then it looks to me like #1 was a fouling shot, #2 was closer but still fouling the barrel, and then #3 and #4 were grouped together on your POI for a fouled barrel. Of course, 2 shots does not a group make, but you stopped before you had enough shots to see if the group would hold up. In other words, if you started from a clean barrel this morning and did not fully clean between shots, then throw out #1 and #2 entirely.

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

Your sabots should be two-hands tight. If you can push the ramrod with one hand, the sabots are not tight enough. If the sabots are tight enough, then you really should need a T-handle to ram the sabot home at the bottom. Looser than that and the chance of inconsistent burn increases.

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

I aree with MrUTVol on most points. Good advice. However, you can use the long sabots with short bullets, but it is best to trim them with a pair of fingernail clippers. So they are just a little longger than the shank of the bullet.

One final thought: Check the diameter of your ventliner at the end of each range session. If it gets oversized, replace it. An oversized vent will wreak havoc on accuracy. If Randy Wakeman still sells his hardened liners, they are worth the cost.

 

[cecil30-30]

I was not cleaning between shots,but I was cleaning the barrel completely when I got home.I have pictures of the targets from my previous 2 range trips that are more inconsistant than this one. I started with a clean barrel both trips,and on one of the trips shots 1 and 2 are almost touching,then they started opening up. I got some harvester sabots to try this saturday.

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

By cleaning between range sessions, you are failing to keep everything consistent shot to shot. As for the prior target, it is entirely possible for the first two shots, the fouling shots, to be close together, then to have the POI shift to a new location because the subsequent shots are from a fouled barrel.

 

[S.vitreum]

I have yet to see anything you are doing that remains consistent. Pictures of 9 shots where you changed loads? 2 diff. loads? You are quite likely chasing your tail. Patience grasshopper...

 

[cecil30-30]

I have yet to see anything you are doing that remains consistent. Pictures of 9 shots where you changed loads? 2 diff. loads? You are quite likely chasing your tail. Patience grasshopper...

THe range session where I shot 9 shots was my first time shooting it and all 9 shots was shot with 43grs of AA5744 and a 250gr xtp.My 2nd range session was the same.Nothing changed.I didn't change anything until I went the 3rd time and thats when I went from 43grs of powder to 44grs. I thought I was being consistant.I was starting with a clean barrel all 3 times and used the same load the whole time 2 range sessions.Im gonna stop cleaning the barrel and start witha fouled barrel.

 

[Deer Assassin]

JMO

i agree with several of the above statments



but what i would do

go buy some hndy sst 250 or 300 gn bullets (do not get e-z load crap)

put a new vent liner in it
try some h4198


do not clean crap

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

I thought about giving the same suggestion as DA, but thought it might be best to find a workable load from the manual first. I have had my best results with the slower, tested powders. BUT if you use a non-book powder, make sure you know the right charge weights for the bulllet weight you use. Too heavy, and you put yourself at risk. Too light, and it will not be consistent and reliable, especially as temps drop.

Always know the min and max and stay between them.

I tend to think it would best to stay with 5744 until you shoot a bit more and get used to managing each of the different variables you must handle for top accuracy.

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

I thought I was being consistant.I was starting with a clean barrel all 3 times and used the same ...

First, don't give up, you're doing okay--you'll get there.

Second, you have to stay consisent not just session to session, but every single shot to every single shot, right down to how clean the barrel is and how hard you pack the bullet home. Look at my list of variables (about nine of them) on the other thread. You must keep them all the same every single time unless you intentionally decide to experiment wwith changing one--and only one--at a time. Write out the lis of variables and next to each write the standard you use for consistenccy (charge weight, primer brand and type, barrel cleaning status, sabot type, ramrod force, etc.) and use it as a checklist before every shot. After a few range sessions, they willl become second nature.