question about shooting does

[diamond hunter]

OK,So,Ive read here several times where people want to shoot does on their farm to get their numbers in check.I can often hunt my place and see 15 plus deer in a sit.Please explain why I would want to kill the mamma of a future big ole buck? Is it food to go around? Available cover to hide all of em? What does killing does accomplish?

 

[diamond hunter]

Makes sense,I have seen a weak rut on my property.Now,how do I know how many does to shoot?

 

[megalomaniac]

How many does to shoot in a given year is only based on 2 things... the total carrying capacity of your property, and the fawn recruitment ratios. If that is over your head, or you aren't interested in finding out or keeping up with that information, you should basically shoot 1 doe for each buck you take (err on the side of being conservative).

A well managed property with significant habitat improvements to increase carrying capacity sure makes for some happy and successful hunters of all types... from meat hunters filling the freezer to those that want to have a huntable population of mature bucks to kill.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

How many does to shoot in a given year is only based on 2 things... the total carrying capacity of your property, and the fawn recruitment ratios. If that is over your head, or you aren't interested in finding out or keeping up with that information, you should basically shoot 1 doe for each buck you take (err on the side of being conservative).

A well managed property with significant habitat improvements to increase carrying capacity sure makes for some happy and successful hunters of all types... from meat hunters filling the freezer to those that want to have a huntable population of mature bucks to kill.

This is your answer

 

[Mike Belt]

Sometimes observation and research can be as different as night and day. I put a lot of faith in research but it can conflict with what I and my friends see not only on a day to day basis during hunting season but a yearly trend as well. There are several factors determining the basis for shooting does and just how many need to be shot. In theory they all sound good and make practical sense but in practice, they don't produce the results touted. I can only say this and it's highly contradictory to research... before we became so obsessed with attaining something close to a 1:1 ratio of bucks to does I saw much more intense rutting action than I have since following the outline defined by that research.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Now,how do I know how many does to shoot?

One more thing you might consider is what will be deemed acceptable hunter satisfaction with regard to future sightings. I don't at all mean to dumb this down, but increasing doe harvest will reduce sightings over time. Let me say that again for effect, "Increasing doe harvest WILL reduce sightings over time." Somehow we get so focused on notions of buck:doe ratio, carrying capacity, rut intensity, etc that we lose sight of an almost guaranteed outcome: fewer overall deer sightings.

Perceived hunt quality and expectations can vary widely so if you really enjoy seeing lots of deer or take kids, take this into account.

 

[Mike Belt]

Deer sightings by definition would be seeing deer during a hunt. There is a huge difference between deer sightings, even if only a couple of deer during a hunt, and continually seeing nothing each hunt. That's what hammering does will get you.

 

[Mike Belt]

docpoco...
Those first 2 sentences...I hadn't thought about that before. That may very well be the best explanation for shooting/not shooting does I have ever read on Tndeer. I understand that "sometimes" deer will fill a void, especially if the food source is a draw, but dead deer only fill freezers; they do nothing to help to sustain the population.

 

[TX300mag]

I know when before we could kill does with a gun in Henderson Co rut activity was nearly invisible. After several years of a neighbor and I hammering on the does, buck sightings (and visible rutting activity) went through the roof. On the other hand, doe sightings dropped fairly significantly as they became wiser. Overall, I consider it a success.

Over the last couple of years, it seems we were seeing (and killing) more and more "busted up" bucks from fighting. I think that may be an indication of a tight ratio resulting in increased competition for does. It would take a well-planned census to determine the actual ratio/population as hunter observations vary wildly and are generally a poor indication.

All that being said, I can't say that the population has decreased. I think it's possible that I'm in a fairly consistent doe sink, but I'm OK with that. It's been fun.

 

[bloodtrailing]

I question the natural balance. Most species have a greater chance of producing female than male offspring. Therefore natural balance is a greater population of does. Survey Yellowwstone elk and you will see this.

The QDM propaganda has us thinking it needs to be balanced.

 

[megalomaniac]

I question the natural balance. Most species have a greater chance of producing female than male offspring. Therefore natural balance is a greater population of does. Survey Yellowwstone elk and you will see this.

The QDM propaganda has us thinking it needs to be balanced.

Actually, this is wrong... most mammalian reproduction is slightly skewed toward the male segment due to higher natural mortality in males. Slightly more males are born, but after factoring in natural mortality, slightly more females are left actually standing.

 

[muddyboots]

We don't

 

[Boone 58]

Simplest answer is that in an unbalanced herd the rut can be drawn out and even spread out over 2 or 3 month cycles. Not much need to chase when does are everywhere.

In a 1:1 or 1:2 herd, when a doe comes in there is a lot of competition for her.

Remember the natural balance is close to 1:1.... (actual is like 48:52 slightly favoring does )

Our pursuit of bucks throws thus out of whack.

Tennessee has an estimated 3-400,000 buck population and we wipe out 6 out if every 10 each season. Thats a lot of pressure!

Not to mention that the fact is also that the land can only carry so many animals for browse and food selection before it becomes counterproductive. If there are 25 deer per square mile and the land can only carry that many why would anyone want 20 of them to be does? Ex.

 

[pass-thru]

Growing Deer TV profiled a study done in MS or GA not too long ago. Basically the rich alluvial soil in part of the state results in much larger racks. The pine plantation bucks have much smaller racks.

To determine if this was genetic or environmental, they set up control groups in both areas and used supplemental feeding to see if that would result in similar sized racks.

There results showed that the rack difference was based on nutrition. But that it takes several generations of improved nutrition to see big improvement in rack size, after nutrition has been improved.

Basically there is a nutritional memory on deer reproduction. It is not enough to create a temporary boost.

There is only so much high quality feed in any natural environment. The more deer you have competing for that limited resource, the less of their genetic potential they will express.

But in order to maximize this, you need to keep the herd at the right size over time, in order to have several generation of healthy diet factored into the nutritional memory expressed in breeding.

 

[user 14220]

After reading this thread, and the wife and I seeing 8 does yesterday and no bucks nor any sign of mating activity the next doe the wife and I get a chance to shoot is going into the freezer.

 

[JeepKuntry]

More defined rut with a balanced herd. By killing the Momma doe, you can prevent her from running off her buttons. Who knows, that deer could be your next trophy.

 

[TX300mag]

More defined rut with a balanced herd. By killing the Momma doe, you can prevent her from running off her buttons. Who knows, that deer could be your next trophy.

This is another benefit I see to shouting does. Our does appear to usually disperse buck fawns pretty early, but when I have seen one with a buck fawn in tow ITry to kill her.


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