Question about bucks breeding

[UpperTully]

I am by any means a biologist or close, so I have a question that i'm trying to understand better.

If a buck matures and never grows larger than a 8 point through out his life time, would his off spring carry the same characteristics and never become larger than a 8 point?

 

[rem270]

No. Bucks carry a pretty high percentage of characteristics from the doe. I think it carries more genes from the doe than the buck. Don't hold me to that because i don't know the for sure %.

 

[scn]

There is no way to predict that in a free ranging herd. Since antler characteristics also come from the doe (and maybe in a higher percentage as alluded to in some studies), you definitely can't say that a buck's offspring will have his same antler characteristics.

That is why shooting "cull", or "management" deer in a free ranging herd to affect antler characteristics is a joke.

 

[Andy S.]

^^^^^^^^^What he said.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Depends also on the doe's genetic makeup. If the doe is carrying the trait to only have 8 points and the buck also is then chances are slim you see better than 8, but not impossible.

 

[UpperTully]

Thanks guys, I learn something everyday.

 

[tree_ghost]

Good thread!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[fishboy1]

A lot of other factors come in to play as well.
Look at all those deer farm deer. Every buck is a monster. Give them super highly nutritious food 24-7/365 with zero stress and they can maximize their potential. So that 8 pt on your farm if high fenced in and all predators out, then given supplimental feed year round, would possibly sprout some kickers.

Another factor is development when young. In drought years, fawns have a harder time getting enough high quality nutrition which can stunt their growth. Most of their energy is put into growing its body and some deer never "catch up" with unstressed deer.

 

[Aquaholic]

So how is shooting a "Cull" buck not helping the herd out? If a "Cull" buck sires a doe is she not carrying his "Cull" genes???

 

[Andy S.]

So how is shooting a "Cull" buck not helping out? If a "Cull" buck sires a doe are they not carrying his "Cull" genes???

Because the buck fawn that will be born is carrying just as much of the doe's family genes as the bucks, and their is no way to predict what kind of offspring the "cull buck" will throw. His "cull genes" may or may not be passed on/expressed by his son. I like to use this example: my mom is 5' 5" on a good day, my biological father was 5' 4" on his best day, yet I am 6' 3". My biological father would have been a cull buck per some standards, yet his height was no indication of his male offspring's height. This is just my simplified way to explain how it works in a wild free ranging herd with A LOT of factors, many that we do not fully understand.

 

[Aquaholic]

If you take the "Cull" buck out of the herd it keeps the genes from potentially being passed on because the "Cull" buck had to get the "Cull" genes from some where......

 

[Andy S.]

That is just it, there is no guarantee that an offspring will be anything like his father (headgear that is, since that is the only thing people look at), thus there is no reason to cull any free ranging buck. Furthermore, just as many does have "cull genes" in their lineage, so how does one address that side of the equation? The bottom line is there are no "cull bucks" in a free ranging herd. If someone wants to call it a cull to justify them shooting it, so be it, but they are doing nothing measurable to help the "antler genetics" of a free ranging herd.

 

[rem270]

Theres no such thing as a cull buck. What do you define as a cull buck?

 

[Andy S.]

For those interested, read these two QDMA articles.
https://www.qdma.com/articles/why-we-cant-manage-deer-genetics

https://www.qdma.com/corporate/mis-management-bucks
Scroll down to the paragraph that starts off with "What Our Best Science Says About Culling"

 

[Os2 Outdoors]

No such thing as a cull buck guys. "cull" buck suppressed genes could be your next Booner expressed genes. This is like high school genetics.

Beating my head against a wall here lol

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[scn]

For those interested, read these two QDMA articles.
https://www.qdma.com/articles/why-we-cant-manage-deer-genetics

https://www.qdma.com/corporate/mis-management-bucks
Scroll down to the paragraph that starts off with "What Our Best Science Says About Culling"

Thank you, Andy, for the links. They should be required reading for deer "managers".

 

[7mm08]

I want to here more about Andy's " free ranging " parents! :)

Good read. Thanks for the links.

 

[smalljawbasser]

If you take the "Cull" buck out of the herd it keeps the genes from potentially being passed on because the "Cull" buck had to get the "Cull" genes from some where......

You'd have to take the cull bucks and the cull does. And there is no way to visually identify either.

 

[TheLBLman]

No such thing as a cull buck guys. "cull" buck suppressed genes could be your next Booner expressed genes.

Exactly . . . . we should remove the concept of "cull bucks" from our Tennessee vocabulary. :)
If you want to shoot a particular buck, just do it because you want to shoot him.

 

[Andy S.]

I want to here more about Andy's " free ranging " parents! :)

LOL..... :D

 

[UpperTully]

This is what I love about this forum, thanks for all the info