Quail

[Headhunter]

pressfit, I am one bird hunter that never said a bad word about a trapper and I have never heard any of the guys I hunted with say anything bad about trappers. Now we got upset with deer hunters, mainy because of them getting places and all quail hunting would end because they did not want their deer bothered.

 

[birddoginQ]

I am a bird hunter and dog owner myself. I almost count myself lucky to have never known the "glory days". In fact, bird hunting to me is almost about going out and watching my dog run and most of the time finding nothing. I hunt, or hunted, with several guys who have quit and sold their dogs because of how it has become. But in walking the farms that they used to hunt, and hearing their stories, I understand why. But also in walking those farms it really is not hard to see why the birds where or werent there. The introduction of fescue to the farms for hay or grazing, massively overgrown fence rows that probably once held birds but now are inpenatrable, Blackberry thickets that have a foot of old canes on the ground that even a rabbit wouldnt walk across... the habitat has changed since those glory days. The places where the birds once were, they can no longer be. "Well they used to be all in this fence row when I was your age". Well 20 years ago I bet the overgrown fence row was a good place. But now it is to thick for birds to move through. Same thing with grandpas old corn field. For the several years after he quit planting it, it was great habbitat. But when Uncle Fred decided to plant it in fescue it got to thick to move through. The examples are endless.

Quail have certain very specific habitat needs that were once provided incedentally by farming practices and also the conversion of old fields and fence rows. That habitat has now been cleaned up, over grown, converted and parceled up. And each tract is different My favorite place is now a subdivision.

Imagine standing standing 8 inches tall and having two inch legs. Next time you look at "prime" habitat where bird "once" were, imagine moving through there at the height of a bird.
I am sure each tract is different and on some predators and pests may be a factor, in other parcel size may be. But by in large, habitat loss is the majority of the problem in most areas. Now a days I would say it takes work, management of some sort, to keep them around.

 

[AcornHead]

Fescue and cleared fence rows. They cant walk around in the fescue and cant nest in a clean fence row. They have lost their habitat to feed and nest.

 

[TheLBLman]

I'm also thinking that quail highly prefer to nest in stands of broom sedge. While a little sedge can still be found, it seems to mostly be growing in fescue!

 

[Chaneylake]

from a common sense standpoint it has to be some factor besides habitat, I state this because Ames Plantation does not have that many quail

 

[TheLBLman]

from a common sense standpoint it has to be some factor besides habitat, I state this because Ames Plantation does not have that many quail

Oh, I totally agree, just saying I believe the single biggest factor is loss of habitat, particularly the displacement of native grasses with fescue. Moving beyond this factor, the next biggest factor might be more predators, particularly hawks. Obviously, Ames does not have the habitat problem, but they do have one heck of a predator problem, particularly with hawks.

I'd bet when Chaneylake was a boy there were relatively few hawks? Now they are sitting around everywhere in relatively large numbers.

 

[Chaneylake]

from a common sense standpoint it has to be some factor besides habitat, I state this because Ames Plantation does not have that many quail

Oh, I totally agree, just saying I believe the single biggest factor is loss of habitat, particularly the displacement of native grasses with fescue. Moving beyond this factor, the next biggest factor might be more predators, particularly hawks. Obviously, Ames does not have the habitat problem, but they do have one heck of a predator problem, particularly with hawks.

I'd bet when Chaneylake was a boy there were relatively few hawks? Now they are sitting around everywhere in relatively large numbers.

good bet, back in the late 60's we would ride around on Sunday afternoons and shoot them with a 22-250. I have never been a bird hunter but the avid ones in my area will still kill a hawk

 

[chimneyman]

I agree with Chaneylake Why i started this topic it has to be something other than Habitat although loss of Habitat has hurt for sure. But if there are no Birds at Ames or other WMA which are managed for wildlife Something sure did kill em. I'm sure Hawks will kill one if given an opportunity but in 50 years hunting i've never seen one catch one. I'm sure Coons, Skunks etc would love to eat a nest but i bet they would love a turkey hatch just as well and turkeys are doing great Thanks

 

[BowGirl]

We used to have alot of quail here. See very few anymore. The habitat here has actually improved significantly. I see the high predator population as a problem but the turkey population here is unbelievable.

Interesting topic for sure.

 

[TheLBLman]

We used to have alot of quail here. See very few anymore. The habitat here has actually improved significantly.

I "suspect" quail may need a much larger amount of contiguous good habitat to thrive over time, than has been previously believed (even without the obvious increase in hawks and other predators). We had much more of this contiguous good habitat prior to the 1960's. Yet, even a place like Ames which has it today, quail are not thriving like they did prior to the 60's. The situation today at Ames alludes to predators being a bigger problem on quail populations than in times past.

In a sense, turkeys are kinda like just big quail, but they seem to have a much greater range (making them less vulnerable to localized habitat problems), and they're large enough to more easily escape many of the predators that can easily take adult quail.

Unlike most other birds, quail live and die a natural life in very close proximity to where they're hatched. If anything goes wrong, all the quail in an area can die off (or be killed), and there are none going to migrate down with the next cold snap up North.

 

[BowGirl]

We used to have alot of quail here. See very few anymore. The habitat here has actually improved significantly.

I "suspect" quail may need a much larger amount of contiguous good habitat to thrive over time, than has been previously believed (even without the obvious increase in hawks and other predators). We had much more of this contiguous good habitat prior to the 1960's. Yet, even a place like Ames which has it today, quail are not thriving like they did prior to the 60's. The situation today at Ames alludes to predators being a bigger problem on quail populations than in times past.

In a sense, turkeys are kinda like just big quail, but they seem to have a much greater range (making them less vulnerable to localized habitat problems), and they're large enough to more easily escape many of the predators that can easily take adult quail.

Unlike most other birds, quail live and die a natural life in very close proximity to where they're hatched. If anything goes wrong, all the quail in an area can die off (or be killed), and there are none going to migrate down with the next cold snap up North.

Great stuff Wes, thanks for the info. That clears it up some. I know the predator population is extremely high here as well. I need to thin some coons, feral cats and possums. I bet that's the biggest problem here.

 

[TheLBLman]

I do think coons are breaking up more quail nests than in times past. Just seems on all fronts, quail have a lot more going against their surviving. My grandfather was a big bird hunter back in the 30's, 40's, 50's, and into the early 60's. Another thing they didn't have back then (where there were a lot of quail in West TN) was skunks. There simply were no skunks, and skunks are also known to love quail eggs and break up many nests today.

There were also no coyotes, although I don't think the coyotes themselves are as much a factor as some of the others. There were foxes, and the coyotes tended to displace much of the fox, so we now have coyotes eating quail instead of foxes eating quail.

Not sure if I've previously mentioned this, but I am seeing quail making somewhat of a native comeback on some of the large timber-tract holdings in Middle TN where there is very diverse habitat that includes lots of clear-cuts. One thing in particular many of these areas do not have is, guess what, fescue. There are thousands of acres in many tracts essentially void of fescue. Interestingly, when these tracts were more mature forest, even back in the 50's, they were almost void of quail except for the farmlands surrounding them. Now, the surrounding farmlands (fescue and all) are almost void of quail. Much of what little hope I see in TN having some ongoing quail populations is coming from those large clear-cuts in the middle of what was more recently mature forests.

IMO, fescue remains the worst thing going for Tennessee's wildlife, particularly quail.