Problems with field-judging age

[BSK]

I'm assuming due to the summer drought this year, and terrible conditions last fall/winter, I'm really having problems field-judging age on our local bucks this year. Everything looks like a 2 1/2 year-old. Even bucks I know to be older than that look young. The brutal drought and acorn failure last year has the deer in terrible shape this year and they haven't put on the normal body growth. I'm hoping that a month or so of eating acorns will get them to fill out and look their age.

Not seeing this problem at all with East TN deer, where they didn't have an acorn failure last year nor drought this year.

 

[Ski]

Everything looks like a 2 1/2 year-old.

It's tough this year. A lot of bucks are looking a year two younger than they actually are. Even some of the older bucks that I know their age have me really studying their historical pictures to be certain they are indeed the same deer.

 

[BSK]

It's tough this year. A lot of bucks are looking a year two younger than they actually are. Even some of the older bucks that I know their age have me really studying their historical pictures to be certain they are indeed the same deer.

This exactly. I know a couple of these bucks are older, but they all look like 2 1/2s.

 

[TheLBLman]

Not seeing this problem at all with East TN deer, where they didn't have an acorn failure last year nor drought this year.

This aging issue doesn't seem as bad a few miles north of you, I suspect because the drought wasn't "as bad", and, in many areas, the deer herds may not have been as acorn-driven as your very localized herd?

Generally agreeing with you, just seems your place was hit even harder by the drought and acorn failure than many areas only a little further north and northwest.

 

[casjoker]

4.5 years old this year....


Seriously, I'm not seeing issues with antler sizes in East TN, but I am definitely noticing the lower number of bucks on trail cams this year compared to years past.

 

[Ski]

I'm not seeing issues with antler sizes in East TN, but I am definitely noticing the lower number of bucks on trail cams this year compared to years past.

I'm seeing fewer bucks as well but attributed it to crop rotations in the area. I won't know if there are fewer deer until the end of the season.

What I'm seeing is not a lack in antler size but rather a lack in body size and development. Even verified mature bucks are looking years younger.

Here's a good example. First two pics are same buck, same place, nearly same pose, a year apart. But note how much weight and "structure" he's lost. For most of the summer I thought he was a very well endowed 2yr or 3yr old and had him securely in the do not shoot list. But searching through last year's trail cam data I found him and see he was likely 4yrs old then. And given that his rack barely changed from last year I am now confident that he's almost certainly 5yrs+ and absolutely on the shoot list.

 

[Big Gun]

Our lease in E. Fayette Co. had drought conditions this year and yesterday I noticed that many of the mature oak trees either had none, or just a few acorns on them. I only found 1 tree that was actively dropping acorns. Also, our soybeans look pitiful, they are very short compared to other places and are already starting to turn yellow. I'm hoping the farmer comes behind them with wheat again this year so the deer will have some food.

 

[casjoker]

It will be interesting to see how this season shakes out, numbers-wise.

 

[deerhunter10]

We have struggled more this year then I can remember. But its off and on. Some are in good shape. But the ones not are hard to tell.

 

[BSK]

What I'm seeing is not a lack in antler size but rather a lack in body size and development. Even verified mature bucks are looking years younger.

This exactly. We aren't (locally) seeing a decline in antler quality per age-class, but we are certainly seeing 3 1/2 year-old bucks that look 2 1/2, and 4 1/2 year-old bucks that look like 2 1/2 or 3 1/2.

 

[backyardtndeer]

but I am definitely noticing the lower number of bucks on trail cams this year compared to years past.

Same here. Have gotten less buck pictures this year than I can recall in a very long time. Corn around us is out, but still a lot of bean fields, hoping we start getting some move in.

 

[BSK]

Again, locally (my place), we are not seeing a decline in antler quality per age-class. However, clients in the area are. Yet the declines are limited to the yearlings and 2 1/2 year-olds. But that makes sense, as the terrible conditions (drought and acorn failure last year, drought this year) will affect the youngest bucks the most. For the youngest bucks, body growth takes precedence over antler growth, and antler growth generally only gets whatever resources are "left over" after body growth requirements are met.

What I'm seeing is a fairly significant decline on the antler point counts of yearlings and 2 1/2s. On an individual buck basis, antler point counts are not a great measure of deer performance, as there can be tiny 8-point basket racks and gigantic 8-point racks, but when looked at the data as averages over a large number of bucks, that data point does track herd health well. And what I am seeing in large photo census datasets is a very high incidence of spike yearlings, and 2 1/2 year-old bucks with 6 or fewer antler points.

Properties that normally see 30-40% of yearlings being spikes are seeing 60-80% spike yearlings. The same properties usually see 20-25% of 2 1/2 year-old bucks having 6 or fewer points are this year seeing 40-50% of 2 1/2s with 6 or fewer points.

 

[megalomaniac]

I'm seeing fewer bucks as well but attributed it to crop rotations in the area. I won't know if there are fewer deer until the end of the season.

What I'm seeing is not a lack in antler size but rather a lack in body size and development. Even verified mature bucks are looking years younger.

Here's a good example. First two pics are same buck, same place, nearly same pose, a year apart. But note how much weight and "structure" he's lost. For most of the summer I thought he was a very well endowed 2yr or 3yr old and had him securely in the do not shoot list. But searching through last year's trail cam data I found him and see he was likely 4yrs old then. And given that his rack barely changed from last year I am now confident that he's almost certainly 5yrs+ and absolutely on the shoot list.

View attachment 294328
View attachment 294334

Excellent example!

 

[megalomaniac]

Locally, I've never seen my deer in better shape. Im having the opposite problem... 3.5yos are pushing 185lbs and look like they are 4.5yos.

Its great for the herd, but terrible for causing high grading.

This 10pt is only 3.5... pic was taken a few hours ago on one of the summer cut sorgham/ bean plots.

An overabundance of Fall/winter/ early spring nutrition is crucial for sure.

 

[Ski]

Locally, I've never seen my deer in better shape. Im having the opposite problem... 3.5yos are pushing 185lbs and look like they are 4.5yos.

Its great for the herd, but terrible for causing high grading.

This 10pt is only 3.5... pic was taken a few hours ago on one of the summer cut sorgham/ bean plots.

An overabundance of Fall/winter/ early spring nutrition is crucial for sure.

Sounds like a good problem to have! Good habitat paying dividends.

 

[fairchaser]

To complicate matters further with CWD we have a younger buck herd altogether. I've been looking at pictures of bucks for several weeks now and it's very difficult to age bucks as 2.5, 3.5 or 4.5. The smaller bodies due to drought also make their racks appear larger. I've settled on saying this buck is a year older than that one. That's all I can conclude!

Hopefully, once they get rutted up their age will pop out. Right now all I see are young bucks, I think!

 

[wcw280]

Ah just stop judging and start shooting. More fun that way anyway.

 

[Ski]

Something not mentioned much in aging bucks is mannerisms and tendencies. There are traits relative to old bucks that aren't to younger. I've had to rely on some of that for getting an idea of age on bucks that otherwise had me fooled.

An example of tendency is antler growth. When all bucks are just nubbing out in spring but one buck already has a full frame by June, he's almost certainly old.

Another is an old buck's mannerisms. During velvet I almost never see old bucks in bachelor groups. He's either alone or maybe has a younger sidekick at most. And soon as velvet sheds he hits scrapes and rubs aggressively, unlike younger bucks who are just beginning to take heightened interest. The young ones aren't pawing the ground or destroying rub trees yet but the old guys are doing it immediately after velvet falls off.

None of this is set in stone but it is tendency and if you pay attention to it you can notice old bucks by their behavior as much as their body characteristics. In a year like this im leaning heavily on it because their bodies are lying to me.

 

[BSK]

Ah just stop judging and start shooting. More fun that way anyway.

Not to me. The biology is far more fun than the actual killing.

 

[BSK]

To complicate matters further with CWD we have a younger buck herd altogether. I've been looking at pictures of bucks for several weeks now and it's very difficult to age bucks as 2.5, 3.5 or 4.5. The smaller bodies due to drought also make their racks appear larger. I've settled on saying this buck is a year older than that one. That's all I can conclude!

Hopefully, once they get rutted up their age will pop out. Right now all I see are young bucks, I think!

This is what I'm hoping. Once they get a month of wolfing down acorns and putting on body weight, they make look different.

 

[megalomaniac]

Something not mentioned much in aging bucks is mannerisms and tendencies. There are traits relative to old bucks that aren't to younger. I've had to rely on some of that for getting an idea of age on bucks that otherwise had me fooled.

An example of tendency is antler growth. When all bucks are just nubbing out in spring but one buck already has a full frame by June, he's almost certainly old.

Another is an old buck's mannerisms. During velvet I almost never see old bucks in bachelor groups. He's either alone or maybe has a younger sidekick at most. And soon as velvet sheds he hits scrapes and rubs aggressively, unlike younger bucks who are just beginning to take heightened interest. The young ones aren't pawing the ground or destroying rub trees yet but the old guys are doing it immediately after velvet falls off.

None of this is set in stone but it is tendency and if you pay attention to it you can notice old bucks by their behavior as much as their body characteristics. In a year like this im leaning heavily on it because their bodies are lying to me.

I think picking up on the subtleties is what separates someone who is decent at aging bucks from someone else who is really good.

Agreed old bucks dont run in bachelor groups... but to me that doesn't happen till they hit 5.5 or older. 4.5yos will run with other 4.5yos and 3.5yos outside the rut. Rarely with 2.5yos.

I learned in MS the old bucks dont hit corn feeders for the most part.

Another key once we get to mid November is quantity of tarsal staining. I've never seen an immature buck with completely blacked out tarsals with the stain running almost down to the hoof.

 

[BSK]

The only thing I'm able to use right now is neck size. Our 2 1/2s still have ultra-skinny necks (like a doe), while the 3 1/2s have much thicker necks at the juncture with the shoulders. But bodies? Wow they look young.

 

[Andy S.]

.........but they all look like 2 1/2s.

Not good for their lifespan if they have average/above average antlers. Split second decisions are often made by comparing antlers to body size (relative scale so to speak), so these bucks will appear 20" bigger than they are in the heat of the moment IF they do not catchup/fill out body weight in October.

 

[Ski]

but to me that doesn't happen till they hit 5.5 or older

That's right. There are lots of differences between a 4.5yr old & 5.5yr old. It's like they morph into a completely different species. To me that is the defining point of maturity. A buck isn't "mature" in my eyes until 5.5yrs old. But a lot of folks, most notably here down south consider maturity to be 3.5yrs or 4.5yrs. It makes sense I suppose because bucks down here rarely live beyond 5.5yrs. Most don't even get to that point. Up north and in the midwest by contrast it's not uncommon for bucks to live to 7, 8, or even 9yrs+ so 5.5yrs isn't uncommon or necessarily old, just mature.

 

[BSK]

Not good for their lifespan if they have average/above average antlers. Split second decisions are often made by comparing antlers to body size (relative scale so to speak), so these bucks will appear 20" bigger than they are in the heat of the moment IF they do not catchup/fill out body weight in October.

Thankfully, for us, not a problem, as anything 2 1/2+ is a legit target. But for those working on more trophy-style management, a real problem, and something I'll be stressing with my clients this year.

 

[TheLBLman]

Hopefully, once they get rutted up their age will pop out.

x 2

 

[TheLBLman]

There are lots of differences between a 4.5yr old & 5.5yr old. It's like they morph into a completely different species. To me that is the defining point of maturity. A buck isn't "mature" in my eyes until 5.5yrs old.

My thoughts as well.

Speaking of "general" traits of mature vs younger bucks,
"generalizations" are just that, "generalizations" which don't hold true, more than we'd like to think.

Every buck is an individual.
Some mature bucks will grow their antlers later than the average young buck.
And some mature bucks hardly rub & scrape at all.

Some have ranges that expand as they get older;
some have ranges that contract.

Some are more homebodies, their entire lives, living on only a few acres, while the "average" is more inclined to roam thousands.

 

[Ski]

Speaking of "general" traits of mature vs younger bucks,
"generalizations" are just that, "generalizations" which don't hold true, more than we'd like to think.

Eh, I only know what I've seen from accumulating probably millions of pics & vids as well personal observations from decades of hunting. Certain traits or behaviors that are associated with a specific sex or age group 100% of the time or near 100% and happen with frequent regularity become generalizations. They're only generalizations because technically it's possible something else could sometimes be true, such as a doe with antlers or a mature buck with fawn spots or bucks with manes & fangs. But generally speaking some things can be reliable to a very high degree of certainty.

While technically an old buck might grow antlers later than the other bucks in the area or perhaps doesn't rub or scrape at all, the overwhelming majority of time that isn't the case. So in general terms I can utilize those types of traits & behaviors to help me field judge age for a higher degree of accuracy. Sometimes there's a chance it'll be wrong but far more often than not it's accurate. And that tendency in the right direction is all I can ask for.

When it comes to buck ranges there are no generalizations I trust. There are so many ever evolving variables both environmental and unique to a specific buck that it's impossible to know when, where, or how far he's going to travel. His range can change on a whim for usually no reason apparent to us. We think in terms of food and sex driven range shifts but there are countless other reasons hunters often don't consider or even think about that dictate a buck's range. It's far too much for me to form any generalizations because frankly I don't ever see reliably repeating patterns. Best I can do is make the most informed guess I can & hope it puts me in front of him. Usually it doesn't.....but sometimes

 

[TheLBLman]

Ski, we are in "general" agreement :)

I didn't state what I was thinking as well as I should when I said,
TheLBLman said:
Speaking of "general" traits of mature vs younger bucks,
"generalizations" are just that, "generalizations" which don't hold true, more than we'd like to think.

I meant to say our generalizations overall are just good most of the time, but certainly not even close to all the time, and that was overall mature buck generalizations, including their ranges.

One thing I can generally say is that mature bucks often do the opposite of what I predict when I'm hunting a particular one :)

 

[Ski]

Ski, we are in "general" agreement :)

I didn't state what I was thinking as well as I should when I said,
TheLBLman said:
Speaking of "general" traits of mature vs younger bucks,
"generalizations" are just that, "generalizations" which don't hold true, more than we'd like to think.

I meant to say our generalizations overall are just good most of the time, but certainly not even close to all the time, and that was overall mature buck generalizations, including their ranges.

One thing I can generally say is that mature bucks often do the opposite of what I predict when I'm hunting a particular one :)

Yessir they get the best of me too. Soon as I think i know something, they reshuffle the deck and make a fool of me lol