Poult recruitment?

[megalomaniac]

So far we are seeing around 1 out of 10 hens with poults. The few with hens only have 4 or 5 out of the clutch left. I'm hoping the other mommas have their brood away from our prying eyes or there's a bunch of hens still setting. What are you guys seeing as far as hens with or without poults?

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[TheLBLman]

I don't seriously assess until July.

But you can bet your britches, the hawks and coyotes are taking a heavy toll on the newly hatched.

 

[woodsman04]

Had some newly hatched on camera on June 4th, probably just a couple days old if that. Couldn't count, but at least four. I'm sure most will get eaten or what not.

Saw a hen and a single poult yesterday, probably 3 weeks old.

Saw two hens with about a handful of poults on Monday, probably 1-2 weeks old.

Seen several hens with none, but this isn't unusual because most don't make anyway.

I think the hatching season was great, dry and warm besides the cool weather last weekend.

Now just got to get them 4-5 weeks old where they are big and strong enough.


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[Andy S.]

Not my pics, but these were taken in SW TN on June 2nd.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Dad an brother were busy planting the last 3 days and saw 40 or more among 5 hens in different areas around the farm. All flying pretty good.

 

[Bone Collector]

I haven't seen any of the ones that hatched on my place, but the place behind me has a bunch of tall grass, so they may be over there. I hope they are ok and the cold didn't kill them.

Honestly i have seen a few this year, which is more than normal, but that was back in early June and I haven't seen any in a few weeks.

 

[TheLBLman]

Hawk bait --- easy meal for any hawk ---
--- or a housecat, dog, coyote, bobcat, you name it.
NORMALLY, a Mother Hen avoids bringing such small poults out into the open like that.
That hen will be lucky to have one poult left by the 4th of July.

 

[megalomaniac]

Prob hungry babies. They like the short stuff to keep the bugs at eye level.

Those pics from west TN are encouraging, esp with all the flooding around earlier

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[woodsman04]

I haven't seen any of the ones that hatched on my place, but the place behind me has a bunch of tall grass, so they may be over there. I hope they are ok and the cold didn't kill them.

Honestly i have seen a few this year, which is more than normal, but that was back in early June and I haven't seen any in a few weeks.

I think that is normal. They could have moved to more suitable brood reading areas or simply already all been eaten.

I'd bet though that they moved. I get pictures of poults newly hatched on my place almost every spring. Although I try and try to creat rearing ha it's I haven't seen a half grown poult their since 2007. I assume they migrate, because I don't see single hens without broods on my place during the summer either.


It's been a good hatch weather year, we've been mostly dry in the peak of hatching season in Giles, Lawrence, Wayne, and Lincoln county.


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[TDW05]

Seen 2 more hens today going to grandparents house and there was 7-8 poults between them. That's 3 hens total with about 13-15 poults! Things seem to be looking up around my area but still cautiously optimistic!

 

[megalomaniac]

Amazing the number of poults just now hatching....

If you back up and extrapolate, setting would have started 3rd to 4th week of May, nest initiation around May 10th, and initial breeding for clutches just now hatching around May 3rd.

For some reason, jennies seem to be really trying to crank the offspring out more this year than in other years. Maybe the wet early spring? I have no idea. But if it continues, we may see our first uptick in statewide populations in quite some time.

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[TheLBLman]

For some reason, jennies seem to be really trying to crank the offspring out more this year than in other years.

I sure hope this is a widespread phenomena.

IMO, we are NEEDING more & better nesting success every year,
just to offset the increased predation from a variety of raptors alone.

I suspect many areas do not have enough remaining adult male birds by early May to fertilize all the jennies that might attempt their first nesting?

 

[megalomaniac]

I suspect many areas do not have enough remaining adult male birds by early May to fertilize all the jennies that might attempt their first nesting?

IMO, this is the single biggest controllable factor contributing to our population decline. Predator loss is #1, but overharvesting males ranks up there.

I don't know how it is for the rest of you, but for me, the hardest part of killing a turkey is finding one. Once I find one, killing him has gotten easier and easier as the years have gone by and my level of patience sticking with that bird has increased. Almost to the point where there is very little challenge in killing at all, and the hunt is becoming anti-climactic; the whole challenge is finding one that wants to gobble. As a consequence, I've had to become even more careful about not overharvesting males, and ensuring there are adequate males left in the population to continue breeding especially after season ends.

heck, I had some trail cam pics here in South MS of toms breeding jennies Mid may... 2 weeks after season ended, and WELL after most people think our breeding season is over (our season opens Mar 7th for kids, Mar 15th for adults.. way too early, IMO). I left 3 mature toms on my hunting lease to ensure all hens have a chance at a fertile nest. In TN, we only took 1 out of 4 birds crossing our properties. I don't know how many of those were killed on neighbors 2nd half of the season, however.

 

[Andy S.]

......(our season opens Mar 7th for kids, Mar 15th for adults.. way too early, IMO). ...

Agreed, as do many states, too many IMO. Along these lines, I was reading some of Dr. Michael Chamberlain's opinions on wild turkey breeding behavior and turkey season opening dates in Georgia. Since he focuses on the science of the matter, I thought it was worth sharing here.

https://www.warnell.uga.edu/people/facu ... hamberlain

Copied verbatim from his FB page:

"Let's talk timing of hunting seasons relative to nest incubation on this Turkey Tuesday. I get this question a lot, "why are turkey seasons timed when they are"? That's an interesting question. Many years ago, managers recognized the importance of timing the removal of toms with peaks in nest incubation, so that most hens were already bred. These recommendations were published at the request of various fish and wildlife agencies (Healy and Powell 1999), but in reality, have been largely dismissed or ignored under pressure to open seasons earlier. This figure shows nest incubation patterns for a population in Georgia, along with the onset of hunting (black line) and period of peak nest incubation (red lines). As you can see, if we're trying to time the season to coincide with peaks in incubation, we're missing the mark a bit. I get many questions and comments about suggestions that the season perhaps opens too soon in many places. Here are a few with my perspectives.

1. "Turkeys breed in March, they're all finished by the end of March". This is false. Yes, turkeys do copulate in March (in the deep South), but they're not finished then. There is keen competition among toms to breed with hens during egg laying, which in this figure is well into April.

2. "You only need one tom to service a bunch of hens". True, one tom can breed with many hens. But this statement misses a critical point. Turkeys are designed to breed with multiple partners, many clutches have multiple toms represented in them. This is important to fitness of the population, and is why toms have such elaborate displays. Sexual selection. Hens are supposed to be able to select and breed with toms that are "the best", and that isn't always just one.

3. If we don't open seasons early, they will "gobble out" and "be done". We've clearly shown that gobbling extends well into May in most populations. And reproductive behaviors are driven by photoperiod, so although there might be slight variations each year, the timing of when birds start gobbling and displaying is pretty much the same each year. The reality is, toms are receptive earlier than hens, so we see birds displaying and hear them gobbling while hens are largely ignoring them, and think that it must be time to start hunting. It's human nature. I'm guilty of it like most.

In the end, when I'm asked about timing of seasons and nesting, I typically note this - turkey seasons are basically set based on tradition and political pressure, rather than on biology of the bird and it's breeding strategy. Many states have made tweaks to their seasons, but the recent changes in South Carolina illustrate some important points. One, making changes always is difficult, we don't like change. Two, biology loses sometimes, oftentimes. Anyway, I'll move on and talk more about this topic in the future, as it's an important yet polarizing one for sure."

 

[megalomaniac]

according to that graph, from a biological standpoint, season should not open in GA until April 21st. TN would be even later since we are further north....

I'd be happy with a compromise of April 14th for season opener in TN, esp in areas with marginal populations.

 

[Andy S.]

^^^^ Agreed.

 

[TheLBLman]

according to that graph, from a biological standpoint, season should not open in GA until April 21st.
TN would be even later since we are further north....

I'd be happy with a compromise of April 14th for season opener in TN, esp in areas with marginal populations.

Although I agree with your dates,
I'd be very happy with a compromise of the 2nd Saturday each April for season opener in TN.
This MIGHT be practical enough and become "doable" without so much opposition?

 

[Andy S.]

I'd be very happy with a compromise of the 2nd Saturday each April for season opener in TN.

That would essentially be an April 10th opener, with dates swinging from the 8th to the 14th. I'd be fine with that.

 

[TheLBLman]

I'd be very happy with a compromise of the 2nd Saturday each April for season opener in TN.

That would essentially be an April 10th opener, with dates swinging from the 8th to the 14th. I'd be fine with that.

This is no doubt this would be a highly beneficial change to the resource (the turkey population),
but there is a main reason I doubt it happening:

This would greatly reduce NON-Resident license sales for spring turkey.

Think about it:

How many avid turkey TN hunters would be going to Alabama & Florida if their seasons didn't open before ours?

Well, our TN turkey season currently opens a week or two earlier than some of our bordering states and states farther north.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Later dates work fine for me as well. Question: If the state doesn't change the start date would anyone start shooting later voluntarily?