OCLhunter90 said:
Heck, work has me a little lower than that even! :eek:
Poll on deer hunting activity
- Thread starter RUGER
- Start date
Heck, work has me a little lower than that even! :eek:
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
Scouting is WAY overrated in my opinion. Since I quit scouting, I kill a ton more deer and better bucks. My scouting, if done, is done while hunting, and very little of that. I will look for oak trees that are "hot", but not much more than that. If on public land I just go to the most remote spot and when run into the first decent sign I hunt.
Baxter83
Well-Known Member
SEC said:
Very easy to say something like that....
I've been trying to find this place for quite some time, and still haven't been able to do it. I only wish I was fortunate enough or financially able to find a "better place to hunt" myself. Some of us beggers can't be choosers..
BuckCommander25
Active Member
I'm in
spoon
Well-Known Member
SEC said:
I do, it's called IL. TN will NEVER be an IL, IA or like any other buck state
I agree but we could do better. States like IL.and IA. and all the other big buck states have one thing in common shorter firearms seasons and lower buck limits. It sure would be nice to see a couple 130s every year around here but with every tom,Richard,and harry blasting away at them for 60 plus days with highpower rifles its never gonna happen.You cant kill what aint there.A.Hall said:
SEC said:
I will have to times 2 that. That would be tough Spoon.
stik
Well-Known Member
SEC said:
and wide open terrain and millions of acres of agriculture and... they have much more than one thing in common.
they ARE there
SEC wrote:
"I agree but we could do better. States like IL.and IA. and all the other big buck states have one thing in common shorter firearms seasons and lower buck limits. It sure would be nice to see a couple 130s every year around here but with every tom,Richard,and harry blasting away at them for 60 plus days with highpower rifles its never gonna happen.You cant kill what aint there."
"It sure would be nice to see a couple 130s every year "
And here is the root of the problem. EXPECTATIONS.
Seeing a couple of 130s "every year" is NEVER going to happen for MOST of us. NEVER.
A 130 inch buck in Tennessee is like hitting the lottery. Although TV would lead you to believe otherwise, free ranging 130s are RARE. In the mid-west, maybe this is a little different, but still not that common.
Most Tennessee hunters would pee themselves if they had a TRULY 130 inch buck walk up to their stand. As would I. A 130 inch buck is a LARGE antlered buck.
Percentage wise, VERY FEW hunters in Tennessee will ever even SEE one. Even in other states.
There are those who say they have seen several, and maybe even passed several, but until it hits the ground with a tape to the horn, it is just TALK.
Trying to manage the Tennessee herd for 130s is INSANE!!!
"I agree but we could do better. States like IL.and IA. and all the other big buck states have one thing in common shorter firearms seasons and lower buck limits. It sure would be nice to see a couple 130s every year around here but with every tom,Richard,and harry blasting away at them for 60 plus days with highpower rifles its never gonna happen.You cant kill what aint there."
"It sure would be nice to see a couple 130s every year "
And here is the root of the problem. EXPECTATIONS.
Seeing a couple of 130s "every year" is NEVER going to happen for MOST of us. NEVER.
A 130 inch buck in Tennessee is like hitting the lottery. Although TV would lead you to believe otherwise, free ranging 130s are RARE. In the mid-west, maybe this is a little different, but still not that common.
Most Tennessee hunters would pee themselves if they had a TRULY 130 inch buck walk up to their stand. As would I. A 130 inch buck is a LARGE antlered buck.
Percentage wise, VERY FEW hunters in Tennessee will ever even SEE one. Even in other states.
There are those who say they have seen several, and maybe even passed several, but until it hits the ground with a tape to the horn, it is just TALK.
Trying to manage the Tennessee herd for 130s is INSANE!!!
BSK
Well-Known Member
SEC said:
...and massive agriculture on the best soils in North America. It is the soils and agriculture that grow those big antlers, not their gun seasons.
I guess some TN hunters will never face the facts, but many locations in TN have an equal buck age structure to IL and IA. In quite a few counties in TN, 1 out of every 4 bucks killed is 3 1/2+, which is equal or better to many of the big buck states. So why aren't we loading up the newspapers and recordsbooks with monster bucks? Because our soil and habitat doesn't grow antlers like the Midwest does.
True, "you can't kill what aint there." But in many instances, it isn't old bucks that "aint there," it is large-antlered bucks. TN, even for bucks that reach full maturity, just doesn't grow many 130+ bucks.
I think most TNdeer users have seen the plethora of trail-cam pictures of good bucks I photograph each year from my property. I think most hunters would agree my place is well managed. I have an equal buck age structure to what other managers report from their properties in IL and IA. We kill a fair number of 3 1/2+ bucks, with about half of those bucks being mature. Yet over the last decade, do you know how many 130+ bucks we've killed? A grand total of one. Now we grow and kill a bunch of bucks in the 95-125 gross range, but 130+ is a rare animal indeed, even when 1 out of every 4 bucks using my place each year is 3 1/2+.
102 said it best when he wrote: "And here is the root of the problem. EXPECTATIONS." I couldn't agree more. If TN hunters want a good chance of killing a large-antlered buck, they need to go north into the Midwest. But if TN hunters want to kill an old buck, they can stay right here at home. However, here at home hunters will need to keep antler expectations low. TN can grow a snot-load of 100-120 class bucks, but 130+ is rare.
Brian,
I really wish you would take that post and pushpin it to the top of the serious deer forum. You have hit on the true bottomline of the deer limit controversies.
Unfortunately, there are several that will refuse to believe what you just wrote.
I really wish you would take that post and pushpin it to the top of the serious deer forum. You have hit on the true bottomline of the deer limit controversies.
Unfortunately, there are several that will refuse to believe what you just wrote.
BSK
Well-Known Member
As an example of "realistic expectations," the below pictured bucks are what hunters should expect to take as "good" bucks from well-managed hardwood habitat that is so common to TN. Now expectations can be higher (probably 10-15 inches higher) in the few heavy agricultural regions of TN. But the below bucks are good examples of what can be expected for much of TN, with all of the pictured bucks being between 115 and 125 gross.
Now that doesn't mean these areas won't produce the occassional whopper. They will. And if hunters can regulary take bucks like those pictured below, they will probably take a whopper on rare occassion. But they will also see quite a few older to mature bucks of far lesser caliber than those pictured. We kill more 3 1/2 and mature bucks in the 95-110 gross range than we do bucks like those pictured below.
Now that doesn't mean these areas won't produce the occassional whopper. They will. And if hunters can regulary take bucks like those pictured below, they will probably take a whopper on rare occassion. But they will also see quite a few older to mature bucks of far lesser caliber than those pictured. We kill more 3 1/2 and mature bucks in the 95-110 gross range than we do bucks like those pictured below.
stik
Well-Known Member
102 said:
i have 2. one grossed 130 5/8. the other hasn't been measured but is bigger than the 1st one.one public(although severely access limited) and one from private land.
I have one that scored 138- 3/8. I've hunted, off and on, since the mid 70's. I've killed several in the 100" range, but this is my rarity, and I'm dang proud of it. ;)
8 POINTS OR BETTER
Well-Known Member
102 said:
I have to disagree. If trigger control is used, the majority of middle and west TN can grow a good number of mature 130" bucks. And the more mature bucks you have in an area the better your chance is of killing one.
10 years ago I would have probably agreed with you. My place was surrounded by 3500 acres owned by Willamette, that was public hunting, and a mature buck was hard to come by. Fast forward 10 years and all the Willamette land is now private owned. And several mature bucks are killed in the area each year. And most of the mature bucks will score 130".
Most of the mature bucks in the herd will score 130", or most of the mature bucks you see in the back of pickups (targeted by hunters) score 130"? BIG difference.8 POINTS OR BETTER said:
BSK
Well-Known Member
8 POINTS OR BETTER said:
How many is a "good number?" Depending on your answer, I may have to strongly disagree with that statement. Now don't get me wrong, 130+ bucks will pop up just about anywhere in TN. A few can be grown anywhere. But the mature and older age bucks that score less than 130 will outnumber the ones that score 130+ by a very wide margin. When you start looking at the percentage of bucks in the older age classes that grow 130+ antlers, it is pretty small. Again, I'm not sayling 130+ bucks can't be produced in TN. They can, anywhere. But they make up just a tiny percentage of the antlered buck population, even in well-managed areas. If you want to hunt for just that tiny percentage of bucks, go for it. But don't ask the state (or other hunters) to set or hunt by rules intended to produce a lot more of those bucks, because it won't work. You will never produce a lot of those bucks in TN.
8 POINTS OR BETTER
Well-Known Member
BSK said:
I'd say 2 130+ bucks per 1000 acres is possible.
spoon
Well-Known Member
8 POINTS OR BETTER said:
8 POINTS OR BETTER
Well-Known Member
A.Hall said:
For it to be possible you have to do what your not willing to do.
You have to let the young ones walk.
I said it sure would be nice to see a couple of 130s around here.By here I meant central west Tennessee.Fertile bottom land,plenty of agriculture.Our bucks regularly grow 100 inches of antler by 2 1/2 years of age.What could they grow in another two years we hardly ever get to see.I have been deer hunting for 21 years AROUND HERE I know what we can do.It is very rare that one
of those pretty 100in 2 year olds makes it through the 60+ day gauntlet we call deer season.
I have worked full time for a taxidermist for the last 15 years.I have had my hands on at least 2,000 deer from all over this country.And i can say there is a huge difference in those big heavy midwestern deer and the little southern deer most of us hunt.There is just no comparison.All I am saying is shorten our firearms season and I will show you boys some 130s.
of those pretty 100in 2 year olds makes it through the 60+ day gauntlet we call deer season.
I have worked full time for a taxidermist for the last 15 years.I have had my hands on at least 2,000 deer from all over this country.And i can say there is a huge difference in those big heavy midwestern deer and the little southern deer most of us hunt.There is just no comparison.All I am saying is shorten our firearms season and I will show you boys some 130s.
8 POINTS OR BETTER
Well-Known Member
A.Hall said:
I hunt some of the poorest dirt in West TN and we average a little better than a couple 130+ per 1000 acres.
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
8 points or better and SEC have some great things to say for sure. Let some deer get some age on them, a 2 buck limit would be a great start. SEC, finally, our gun season is crazy. What FEW deer get age and then the even fewer that get age (not sure I completely agree with the people who say just because you let them grow only a SMALL percentage will get better racks) and grow nice racks, become vampires through all the pressure.
I am more and more hearing something different from a few people who get it. What I mean is, some people are figuring out if give more bucks a chance to live, it is amazing what happens, you have some bigger bucks show up, contrary to what all the experts on here say, that age does not matter, Tennessee will never grow a 130" deer, etc. A few people are realizing that you let some bucks LIVE, some get bigger. I know it is hard to believe. Shortening gun season would also help with being able to see some of these deer, even more so since as BSK has pointed out, the terrain of much of Tennessee makes these deer hard to locate and even if you do they are difficult to hunt.
I am more and more hearing something different from a few people who get it. What I mean is, some people are figuring out if give more bucks a chance to live, it is amazing what happens, you have some bigger bucks show up, contrary to what all the experts on here say, that age does not matter, Tennessee will never grow a 130" deer, etc. A few people are realizing that you let some bucks LIVE, some get bigger. I know it is hard to believe. Shortening gun season would also help with being able to see some of these deer, even more so since as BSK has pointed out, the terrain of much of Tennessee makes these deer hard to locate and even if you do they are difficult to hunt.
Baxter83
Well-Known Member
SEC said:
This is my purely uneducated assumption of why we don't see as many big deer killed in TN than some of the mid western states....
Open Google maps and compare our state to one of those mid-western states. Our state looks like it's covered in a spider web of roadways/interstates/subdivisions/towns/cities. In the mid-west you've got vast ares of open land for wildlife to roam and hide that we don't have here anymore. I think that has a whole lot to do with it. It's hard enough to find them in a little 250-500 acre tract like most of us are used to. Can you imagine how old bucks could live with 15000 acre chunks of un-subdivided land to hide in...
I love TN because it's such a beautiful place to live, but apparently that's why everyone else does to. I guess that's why instead of seeing deer there's now a big ol' home on top of every hilltop out in what used to be "the country" now..
BSK
Well-Known Member
8 POINTS OR BETTER said:
I can live with that.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Headhunter said:
Headhunter,
I promise I'm not picking on you in particular, just using some things you said above to highlight a point that really irks me. Time and time again I see users of this site make comments about what I and others are saying that are completely inaccurate, twisting our comments way outside our actual points.
Over and over I've seen people post like you did, "...contrary to what all the experts on here say, that age does not matter, Tennessee will never grow a 130" deer, etc." I can't speak for the other "experts," but I can say unequivocally, that I have NEVER said "age does not matter." As I've said a thousand times, as a general rule, individual bucks will grow larger antlers with increasing age. And as for, "...Tennessee will never grow a 130 deer..." in my most recent post on that topic above, I clearly stated: "...don't get me wrong, 130+ bucks will pop up just about anywhere in TN. A few can be grown anywhere." And then again, "Again, I'm not saying 130+ bucks can't be produced in TN. They can, anywhere." But the point I was trying to make was, and I stand fully behind my earlier comments with plenty of solid scientific data to back up my claims: "When you start looking at the percentage of bucks in the older age classes that grow 130+ antlers, it is pretty small." And, "...[130+ bucks] make up just a tiny percentage of the antlered buck population, even in well-managed areas."
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
I sincerely apologize BSK. That entire post was not aimed at you. But reading what many others on here post, that is what I understand to a great extent.
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
102 posted the following
"And here is the root of the problem. EXPECTATIONS.
Seeing a couple of 130s "every year" is NEVER going to happen for MOST of us. NEVER.
A 130 inch buck in Tennessee is like hitting the lottery. Although TV would lead you to believe otherwise, free ranging 130s are RARE. In the mid-west, maybe this is a little different, but still not that common.
Most Tennessee hunters would pee themselves if they had a TRULY 130 inch buck walk up to their stand. As would I. A 130 inch buck is a LARGE antlered buck.
Percentage wise, VERY FEW hunters in Tennessee will ever even SEE one. Even in other states.
There are those who say they have seen several, and maybe even passed several, but until it hits the ground with a tape to the horn, it is just TALK."
Hitting the lottery? Really?
"And here is the root of the problem. EXPECTATIONS.
Seeing a couple of 130s "every year" is NEVER going to happen for MOST of us. NEVER.
A 130 inch buck in Tennessee is like hitting the lottery. Although TV would lead you to believe otherwise, free ranging 130s are RARE. In the mid-west, maybe this is a little different, but still not that common.
Most Tennessee hunters would pee themselves if they had a TRULY 130 inch buck walk up to their stand. As would I. A 130 inch buck is a LARGE antlered buck.
Percentage wise, VERY FEW hunters in Tennessee will ever even SEE one. Even in other states.
There are those who say they have seen several, and maybe even passed several, but until it hits the ground with a tape to the horn, it is just TALK."
Hitting the lottery? Really?
Felt like I had won to me! ;)
BSK
Well-Known Member
Headhunter said:
That depends on where you hunt. In the best habitat areas of the state (Williamson Couny, along the MS River, and most recently some of the southcentral TN counties [great mix of agriculture and woodland]), I know of quite a few hunters that see several 130+ bucks per year. However, in the poorer habitat that is so common across TN (ridge-and-hollow hardwoods), hunters can go many years without seeing 130+ buck, even in areas with an excellent buck age structure.
Again, I think most hunters would agree my property is well-managed. Since 2004, right around 1 in every 4 bucks using my property each year is 3 1/2+. One out of 10 is 4 1/2+. And I would consider my place to be "above average" in that every year at least 1 buck using the property will top 140 gross. In that time-frame of 2004 to the present, I have seen plenty of 3 1/2+ bucks and killed a handful, about half of those being mature (4 1/2+). Yet in that same time-frame I have seen a grand total of one 130+ buck.
Now I'm by no means a good hunter, but I'm not a lousy hunter either. But the combination of two factors of: 1) a low percentage of older to mature bucks grow 130+ antlers in my terrain/habitat; and 2) the difficulty of successfully seeing and killing older to mature bucks in my terrain/habitat; make regularly seeing 130+ bucks a low percentage proposition, even though a few do exist each year.
