Now this worries me

[RUGER]

Went out to my brother-in-laws farm yesterday to sight in my new rifle and man's new .17.

The ground conditions were perfect for checking tracks. It had rained just enough that any deer that had been in the field in the last 3 days would have left good tracks.

I spent about an hour walking / riding around the field edges and nothing. Not a single deer track to be found.

I have decided that between the dozer and track hoe work that SOMETHING has changed their travel patterns just off the property.
Don't know if a couple people have increased their hunting pressure in areas that the deer come from or what but this sucks.

We have killed a total of 6 deer off this farm since the first juvenile weekend.
One deer that weekend, one deer opening morning of rifle season and then 4 deer Thanksgiving morning.
Since Then we have only seen one deer on the farm.

It is basically three big field seperated by fence rows and three small spots of woods.
One of the fence rows is now gone and another has a big hole in it.

I just don't get it. :(

 

[rem270]

Dern farmers getting every inch they can is the problem.

Hate seeing areas cleared out like they have yours.

 

[RUGER]

Yep, last year he cleared a 3 acre wood spot along with a very popular travel route of a ditch with about a twenty yard wide grown up area.

This year he cleared that entire fence row that ran North / South that didn't look like much but was a VERY good spot to hunt.
Said he was gonna put in one of those irrigation rigs. :(

Guess they got to do what they got to do but it sucks for hunting.

If / when he buys the property to his West he will clear out the best hunting spot on the farm too. :(

Oh well.

 

[lpo1981]

Sounds like its time to look for new property to hunt.

 

[BSK]

Normally, I find changes in habitat have little influence on deer usage of the area short-term. However, it isn't out of the question. I have seen a few instances where logging or other human activities occurred in just the wrong spot, causing substantial changes in short-term deer activity patterns.

 

[Hunter 257W]

Sounds familiar. In the last couple of years the farmer on the farm beside ours bulldozed down about 30 acres of woods and "cleaned up" most of the fencerows. It altered deer travel routes drastically and of course the woods he knocked down eliminated all deer activity in that area. Nothing you can do about it though. High row crop prices are pushing more farmers to do this but it's been a trend for years anyway. That's largely why we have no quail and rabbits too.

I assume your Brother in Law is the famer? Is he not a hunter? The land sounds like my farm and the area around it which consists of small wood plots connected by fencerows. The fence rows are absolutely essential to give deer cover to move from one woodlot to another. My fencerows are 50 to 75 feet wide. I wouldn't clean out the honeysuckle/brush/blackberries/etc. along the fencerow edges for $10,000. IT would be worth that just to hear a bobwhite quail again!

 

[Remmy25-06]

I agree farmers r worse for wildlife than anyone person.I do think they r getting a little greedy now a days wanting every inch of land and with all their free money WHY be this way. Don't get me wrong i like farmers my bests friends r farmers and i tell them the same thing.

 

[BSK]

I agree farmers r worse for wildlife than anyone person.I do think they r getting a little greedy now a days wanting every inch of land and with all their free money WHY be this way. Don't get me wrong i like farmers my bests friends r farmers and i tell them the same thing.

Ummm, I believe it's called free-market capitalism.

I don't blame the farmers one bit. I hope they maximize their profits and stay in business for many years to come.

 

[in the dog house]

^^^^^ agree ... people gotta eat

 

[RUGER]

Yes he is a farmer and could give two squirts about anything dealing with hunting.


Kind of an update.
We just got back from riding four wheelers in what snow we have.
I rode around about 400 acres of woods line and property lines.
Not one single deer track anywhere. :(

I did see one set of coyote tracks but that is it.

 

[richmanbarbeque]

I agree farmers r worse for wildlife than anyone person.I do think they r getting a little greedy now a days wanting every inch of land and with all their free money WHY be this way. Don't get me wrong i like farmers my bests friends r farmers and i tell them the same thing.

Ummm, I believe it's called free-market capitalism.

I don't blame the farmers one bit. I hope they maximize their profits and stay in business for many years to come.

I agree, BSK

 

[moondawg]

I agree farmers r worse for wildlife than anyone person.I do think they r getting a little greedy now a days wanting every inch of land and with all their free money WHY be this way. Don't get me wrong i like farmers my bests friends r farmers and i tell them the same thing.

Ummm, I believe it's called free-market capitalism.

I don't blame the farmers one bit. I hope they maximize their profits and stay in business for many years to come.

I agree, BSK

x2. They own and pay taxes on the land. They can pretty much do what they want. Hunting on that land is a privelage that can be taken away at anytime. That's just the reality of it.

 

[moondawg]

Yes he is a farmer and could give two squirts about anything dealing with hunting.


Kind of an update.
We just got back from riding four wheelers in what snow we have.
I rode around about 400 acres of woods line and property lines.
Not one single deer track anywhere. :(

I did see one set of coyote tracks but that is it.

You probably killed all the deer on that land! :D
I know it's frustrating for sure. They probably changed their patterns. I had similar problems the past two years. I'd see maybe a few tracks, but no deer. Frustrating, I tell ya.

 

[mrw]

Sounds like the food source has changed. What was planted in the fields? That combined with the pressure you and the clearing of the land has put on them changed their patterns. I'm sure they will be back next year.

 

[BMan]

Sounds like the farmers are trying to maximize their return on investment, as any good businessman should do. Can't fault them for that.

 

[chiggerbit]

I agree farmers r worse for wildlife than anyone person.I do think they r getting a little greedy now a days wanting every inch of land and with all their free money WHY be this way. Don't get me wrong i like farmers my bests friends r farmers and i tell them the same thing.

Ummm, I believe it's called free-market capitalism.

I don't blame the farmers one bit. I hope they maximize their profits and stay in business for many years to come.

What does greed or having a lack of stewardship have to do with capitalism? The GOOD LORD identified GREED as the root of all evil a couple thousand years ago, and why do I mention it? Well, as you know, this country was founded upon Judeo/Christian ethics. Besides, I don't know what the notion of a "free" market has to do with farm subsidies and all the government intrusion from special interests in agriculture. "Free" Market? Sheesh. The country is royally screwed from top to bottom, and we all know it. Sorry...that's my cynical side showing it's ugly head on this gloomy winter day.

Anyhow, back to ethics, although I DESPISE the alternative, private property rights do nothing for the greater good in the long run WITHOUT honesty, stewardship, and even charity. Heard of the old Jewish practice of "gleaning" or know something about how they farmed back then? Not only did they leave something for the poor (and WILDLIFE), you bet they left hedges, and it was a serious practice and way of doing agriculture and taking care of the land. Obviously, we have nothing that looks like old Jewish agricultural practices nowadays, but if we did, we'd still have quail and rabbits EVERYWHERE! I mention the practice to just show how far we've come. That's the way it goes though when we ignore ethics and equate capitalism with greed or a lack of stewardship.

So bottom line, why do YOU think we lost our quail and rabbits and there's all kind of TWRA advisories on streams saying that we can't eat the fish? Is "free" market capitalism the problem? I don't think so. PEOPLE, more specifically, property owners and their contractors are the problem. Like I said though, I despise the alternative, because as we all know, it's no better.

 

[RUGER]

Food source is a cut bean field.

Pretty much the only real change has been the removal of the fence row this year.

Just for the record, yes it sucks not to have deer on the only place I have to hunt that is less than 2 hours from home.
No, I have nothing against him or what he does on his land.
He does what he does and has allowed us to hunt on his land and I am grateful.

Just thought I would clear that up.

 

[BSK]

chiggerbit,

I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their property (within a few limits). Although I'm a big fan (and teacher) of "land stewardship," landowners/farmers have no requirement to show stewardship towards animals that eat up their profits. And I personally don't see maximizing profits as greed. I see it as smart.

To us hunters, farmers and landowners owe nothing, especially considering how most hunters treat other peoples' land (i.e. very badly).

 

[Coach]

Dern farmers getting every inch they can is the problem.

Hate seeing areas cleared out like they have yours.

In reality it's their living...an extra here and there could mean alot to the family...I'm not disagreeing only saying

 

[Coach]

chiggerbit,

I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their property (within a few limits). Although I'm a big fan (and teacher) of "land stewardship," landowners/farmers have no requirement to show stewardship towards animals that eat up their profits. And I personally don't see maximizing profits as greed. I see it as smart.

To us hunters, farmers and landowners owe nothing, especially considering how most hunters treat other peoples' land (i.e. very badly).

Daggum elitism :grin:

 

[redblood]

Went out to my brother-in-laws farm yesterday to sight in my new rifle and man's new .17.

The ground conditions were perfect for checking tracks. It had rained just enough that any deer that had been in the field in the last 3 days would have left good tracks.

I spent about an hour walking / riding around the field edges and nothing. Not a single deer track to be found.

I have decided that between the dozer and track hoe work that SOMETHING has changed their travel patterns just off the property.
Don't know if a couple people have increased their hunting pressure in areas that the deer come from or what but this sucks.

We have killed a total of 6 deer off this farm since the first juvenile weekend.
One deer that weekend, one deer opening morning of rifle season and then 4 deer Thanksgiving morning.
Since Then we have only seen one deer on the farm.

It is basically three big field seperated by fence rows and three small spots of woods.
One of the fence rows is now gone and another has a big hole in it.

I just don't get it. :(

6 deer on a small property is alot. I kill a deer off an individual property property about once every three to 4 years on average, and i am in unit L- Lincoln bedford marshall

 

[Hunter 257W]

In my opinion, Developers buying up farms and turning them into subdivisions do the most damage to wildlife habitat. It turns my stomach every time I see a farm sell to a so called "Developer".

But still farmers themselves are slowly destroying wildlife. Of course when a farmer takes part of his land out of cultivation for wildlife it's like the rest of us throwing away a paychek or two - every year. A lot of people see farmers as a big, rich guy who is already rich and the income the get each year off their crops is just "gravy" like a bonus. True they can make a lot of money but they have a tremendous amount of money invested - often times borrowed money - in land, equipment, seed, fuel, chemicals, insurance costs, labor. And their yearly income is vulnerable to market prices too so that even in a good yield year they don't make what it may seem like. However, in the past 5 or 6 years it seems as if they have had it really good. Farm land prices in the midwest have passed $10,000/acre so they have to be making a ton of money to pay those prices! Think of it. A 100 acre field selling for a Million dollars! And that is land that is to be used to farm, not a farm being turned into a subdivision.

Guess, I'm rambling here but what I'm saying is that I can see both sides since I grew up on a farm and bought more adjoining land recently.

Whatever your opinion is about a farmers "Right" to maximize profits, if they all practice "Clean Farming" there will be fewer wild animals. Quail have very little chance of ever coming back. Honestly I think it is zero chance.

 

[BigGameGuy]

And herein lies the reason why quail may never be restored to previous levels. Wildlife simply can not compete with the almighty dollar.

 

[RUGER]

What BGG said.

Swung by an old friend / hunting partner's house today and we were talking about the old days of walking and kicking up rabbits and quail around his house.

He showed me 4 different REAL good fence rows / woods that we used to hunt.

Completely cleared and a brand new irrigation system installed. :(

 

[chiggerbit]

chiggerbit,

I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their property (within a few limits). Although I'm a big fan (and teacher) of "land stewardship," landowners/farmers have no requirement to show stewardship towards animals that eat up their profits...

BSK, like I said, I'm certainly in favor of property owner rights, free enterprise, apple pie and....FORD. That's what makes America...but in a perfect America, people would be responsible for and take care of what was their's, not necessarily just for the sake of the critters, but for the sake of their relationship to WHO created their land and their fellow man. Speaking of "land stewardship" and land and agriculture issues though, I came across this page that you might find interesting.
http://landstewardshipproject.org/about ... ythbusters

 

[156p&y]

Yep, last year he cleared a 3 acre wood spot along with a very popular travel route of a ditch with about a twenty yard wide grown up area.

This year he cleared that entire fence row that ran North / South that didn't look like much but was a VERY good spot to hunt.
Said he was gonna put in one of those irrigation rigs. :(

Guess they got to do what they got to do but it sucks for hunting.

If / when he buys the property to his West he will clear out the best hunting spot on the farm too. :(

Oh well.

See if he will let you plant honey suckle around the fields. We have tons of acorns this year but yesterday I hunted all honey suckle and watched 15 different deer mow it down.

 

[BSK]

chiggerbit,

I just take a very different view of farmers. I'm extremely thankful they plant the crops they do (for profit). Those crops feed a lot of wildlife. Without farming we wouldn't have anywhere near the deer we currently do. Hardwood forests won't grow many deer.

 

[Hunter 257W]

chiggerbit,

I just take a very different view of farmers. I'm extremely thankful they plant the crops they do (for profit). Those crops feed a lot of wildlife. Without farming we wouldn't have anywhere near the deer we currently do. Hardwood forests won't grow many deer.

All true, but at the same time a thousand acres of corn that are harvested in August and left bare won't Winter a single deer. I don't know what the answer is though. It's a hard sell to convince a farmer who isn't a hunter that he should give up income so some redneck can come on his property without his permission and leave garbage while hunting. As I said before, I have experience on both sides of this situation. It's a difficult problem. All I can do is manage my own land to both produce as a farm AND leave cover for wildlife.

 

[BSK]

chiggerbit,

I just take a very different view of farmers. I'm extremely thankful they plant the crops they do (for profit). Those crops feed a lot of wildlife. Without farming we wouldn't have anywhere near the deer we currently do. Hardwood forests won't grow many deer.

All true, but at the same time a thousand acres of corn that are harvested in August and left bare won't Winter a single deer. I don't know what the answer is though. It's a hard sell to convince a farmer who isn't a hunter that he should give up income so some redneck can come on his property without his permission and leave garbage while hunting.

Exactly. Thinking a farmer has the responsibility to do anything for hunters is ludicrous. They have no such responsibility. Now I applaud those farmers who do practice land stewardship, and certainly encourage those practices, but thinking they somehow "owe it to us" is foolishness.

All I can do is manage my own land to both produce as a farm AND leave cover for wildlife.

I couldn't agree more. If you want to see good land stewardship practiced, buy the land yourself and pay the expense of stewardship. It's not cheap.

 

[MUP]

Wow, interesting viewpoints for sure, very eye-opening.