Anyone else notice how most of the popular youtube bowhunters get virtually no penetration when they shoot a deer. Its epidemic. Deer running off with 2ft of arrow flopping in the wind. Todays bows are the fastest snd most efficient ever. So why no penetration? I guess i can understand if the person has a tiny draw length and arent drawing much weight. But most of these guys could sell shade for a living. Is it expandable broadhead? Light arrows? My bow is no speed demon but i have to pull my magnus broadheads out of the ground after going through deer. Just seens like the floppy arrow light show is the new norm. Maybe they think the lighted nock is pretty bounding off through the hardwoods lol.
No Penetration…..
- Thread starter redblood
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bowhunter163
Well-Known Member
I think you hit the nail on the head. Light arrows and really large expandable broadheads are my hypothesis as well!
Light arrows and mechanicals. Since I went to a 550ish grain arrow and hand sharpened Magnus, the deer don't even know they are hit and don't go out of sight anymore.
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As posted, those mechanicals deplete a lot of the energy that would otherwise be spent on penetration.
I quit using expandables long ago after losing a couple shot like you should . Old school Muzzy for me . Some on those bad shots think they are shooting guns and shoulder shoot deer with a bow . Crazy... double lung may go 100 yards with a tremendous blood trail .
peytoncreekhunter
Well-Known Member
When I bow hunted I had heavy arrows and heavy broadheads. I kept my shots 25 yrds and in. I wasn't a speed demon, my bow was fast enough. I liked the kinetic energy.
I had several discussions with my friends on the speed thing. I asked them if they would rather get hit by a BB that was thrown at them as hard and fast as a person could throw it or a softball. Don't know if I was right about it or not but to me it made sense.
I had several discussions with my friends on the speed thing. I asked them if they would rather get hit by a BB that was thrown at them as hard and fast as a person could throw it or a softball. Don't know if I was right about it or not but to me it made sense.
killingtime 41
Well-Known Member
I use the fixed blade Montec g5. And 400gr arrow. Setup works good but have thought about trying a heavy arrow with the magnus setup. Maybe I'll give it a go next year.
If that 400 is what's on your arrow that's not gr. That's the spine. I shoot 400 gold tips 8.2gpi(grain per inch). Your gr depends on arrow length.
I have a 28.5 inch arrow × 8.2= 233.7+100gr muzzy= 333.7gr total arrow weight
Mechanical broadheads are the biggest problem
@fulldraw
Well-Known Member
Correct but usually forward opening blades. Takes a lot of KE to open them and push through.
Bill Clinton's alibi?
Sorry I couldn't help it.
Sorry I couldn't help it.
jfelts1994
Well-Known Member
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Its not just a function of the mechanical, but more importantly the cutting diameter.
I shoot mechanicals on elk. Mostly because of wind planing/ deflection out west with much higher winds.
Shooting a tiny 1.25in cut diameter mechanical and very light Easton ACC (BUT also extremely narrow diameter arrows), i have gotten complete passthrus 3 out of 3 on elk. The furthest one went was 80 yards after the shot.
The greater cutting diameter, the greater resistance and less penetration. Same for number of blades. Same for diameter of arrow shaft.
Go big, heavy, and slow for penetration. Or go small and fast for penetration.
I shoot mechanicals on elk. Mostly because of wind planing/ deflection out west with much higher winds.
Shooting a tiny 1.25in cut diameter mechanical and very light Easton ACC (BUT also extremely narrow diameter arrows), i have gotten complete passthrus 3 out of 3 on elk. The furthest one went was 80 yards after the shot.
The greater cutting diameter, the greater resistance and less penetration. Same for number of blades. Same for diameter of arrow shaft.
Go big, heavy, and slow for penetration. Or go small and fast for penetration.
I feel like it's more the weight of the arrow than the expandable broad head. I've killed several deer with expandable heads, and all have been pass throughs. Now with that said, I shoot 65lbs and a 30" draw length and the arrows I have been using are about 9 gpi so I may have a little heavier arrow than the afore mentioned youtube hunters.
jfelts1994
Well-Known Member
I had a doe get away several years ago, my first deer to ever live after I shot it. Felt great about a 30 yard broadside shot on a doe and it hit her shoulder. Must have pulled it a little. As she turned and ran off I saw what looked to be 90-95% of my arrow flopping around. We backed out and tracked later to no avail. Saw her on trail camera a week and a half later. Anyways I went back to the drawing board and now shoot a 630 gr overall weight 250 spine arrow with a 200 Gr. Iron Will with a 95 Gr. insert out of my Mathews Lift pulling 80 lbs. The first deer I shot with the setup was perfectly broadside and turned and looked at the arrow and then walked 40 yards and collapsed in sight. None of that tearing out of dodge at a million miles an hour. Perfect double lung at 17 yards. The arrow was buried a foot in the dirt behind him.
The buck I shot this year I shot at 4 yards from about 22 feet up. He was quartering to me and I drove it through his frontside shoulder and managed to center punch the left lung and clipped the back of the right lung. The arrow split his shoulder bone vertically about 6" and was a full pass through buried in the ground about 6". When hit he reacted a little harsher because id hit bone but turned and went about 60 yards at a trot before collapsing in sight. I would never go back to an expandable after the experiences I have had with a heavy weight single bevel setup. Shot placement is king but bringing the right equipment for the job is almost just as paramount. I would never feel confident shoulder shooting a buck with an expandable. I doubt the blades would even make it through the bone and if they did they're gonna be completely ruined. I have killed both these deer with the same Iron Will broadhead and it still looks new.
The buck I shot this year I shot at 4 yards from about 22 feet up. He was quartering to me and I drove it through his frontside shoulder and managed to center punch the left lung and clipped the back of the right lung. The arrow split his shoulder bone vertically about 6" and was a full pass through buried in the ground about 6". When hit he reacted a little harsher because id hit bone but turned and went about 60 yards at a trot before collapsing in sight. I would never go back to an expandable after the experiences I have had with a heavy weight single bevel setup. Shot placement is king but bringing the right equipment for the job is almost just as paramount. I would never feel confident shoulder shooting a buck with an expandable. I doubt the blades would even make it through the bone and if they did they're gonna be completely ruined. I have killed both these deer with the same Iron Will broadhead and it still looks new.
deerhunter10
Well-Known Member
Light arrows giant cutting broad heads and a bunch of bad shots in there to. Most people have no idea how much there arrows weigh. And a lot of people don't even shoot their broadheads either. They just screw them on and go hunt.
Same
64lbs draw weight
565gr total weight with hand sharpened TOTA 125's
I aim like I have a rifle instead of mid rib like before.
I shot a doe last year and it split the humerus bone on exit. She ran 40yds and was done. It's amazing the difference
ImThere
Well-Known Member
I shoot heavier arrows with a 1.5" forward opening board head and have to pull the arrow out of the ground every time. I tried lighter gold tip arrows and didn't have a pass through in 3 deer. Stopped shooting them light arrows
Expandable arrows not allowed around here! Fixed or go home! Too much margin for error with shots close to shoulder even from a close distance. I wish the expandable craze would end!!!
Most expandables brake off and non-vitally wound deer, and you still have shaft, but have to replace super expensive broad head. Get HEAVY fixed +1" broadheads and get lighted nocks and you will still get your arrow, likely broadhead and save yourself meat as well.
Source: I work at a deer butcher shop and bow hunt with fixed broad heads.
Most expandables brake off and non-vitally wound deer, and you still have shaft, but have to replace super expensive broad head. Get HEAVY fixed +1" broadheads and get lighted nocks and you will still get your arrow, likely broadhead and save yourself meat as well.
Source: I work at a deer butcher shop and bow hunt with fixed broad heads.
ImThere
Well-Known Member
I've short hundreds of deer with mechanicals and never had one break in a deer. What brands do you see broke?Expandable arrows not allowed around here! Fixed or go home! Too much margin for error with shots close to shoulder even from a close distance. I wish the expandable craze would end!!!
Most expandables brake off and non-vitally wound deer, and you still have shaft, but have to replace super expensive broad head. Get HEAVY fixed +1" broadheads and get lighted nocks and you will still get your arrow, likely broadhead and save yourself meat as well.
Source: I work at a deer butcher shop and bow hunt with fixed broad heads.
jfelts1994
Well-Known Member
Well to name a couple couple I've personally seen rage, schwackers, g5, and, grim reapers all break in deer and a couple of those were just going through the ribs. 3 of these I personally shot and they broke on me. I also had a rage that never opened on me although we did still find the doe dead as it clipped the aorta. I am not saying that everyone ever fired breaks but they are way more apt to break than a fixed blade. Single bevel or not.
ImThere
Well-Known Member
I've shot the Nap shockwaves until the spitfires came out. I'd say I'm easily I've 200 bow kills in that time and never broke one didn't know it was a "thing"
jfelts1994
Well-Known Member
Thats good! Ya couldn't pay me to personally sling the flappers anymore but I believe if it works for you and you are confident in it that you should hunt with it. The mind is a funny thing and a little bit of doubt in your setup can reflect in your shot.
Ladys man
Well-Known Member
I've went from shooting 550 gr with exodus to shooting 440 with g5 deatmeat.
I have tried magnus and g5 dead meats neither have shot a deer with so can't speak of there blood trails but am capable.
I've killed with mechanicals and fixed. I will say better blood trails with mechanical (swhacker) but that's expected with bigger cut.
To me bottom line is shot placement, I do my part part and equipment will follow.
I have tried magnus and g5 dead meats neither have shot a deer with so can't speak of there blood trails but am capable.
I've killed with mechanicals and fixed. I will say better blood trails with mechanical (swhacker) but that's expected with bigger cut.
To me bottom line is shot placement, I do my part part and equipment will follow.
jfelts1994
Well-Known Member
Equipment will follow to the degree it is capable and there are almost unlimited variables. If the arrow makes it to its mark I want as little left to chance as possible, least of all it doing its job. I killed a lot of deer with a light arrow and expandable setup until I didn't under conditions that it should have killed the deer in. That is when I decided to make a change. Once again I believe people should shoot what they are comfortable and confident with. I am just more confident with a single bevel sitting on a nice heavy setup than I am anything else.
Ladys man
Well-Known Member
I totally agree. I switched to heavier arrow and fixed blade several yrs ago trying to hug the shoulder more. On that deer was broadside at 28yds. I didn't get a pass through (550 with exodus)I still watched the deer fall. Last season I went to a 2 blade magnus fixed but never got a shot. This season I changed up some to get a little flatter flight. I went to 440 with dead meat. But I will say money wise fixed is cheaper in the long run, just put an edge back on and you're good for another deer.
Penetration doesn't matter a bit to me. So long as I get a broad head inside chest cavity or gut, I'm confident I'll retrieve the deer. How ever much penetration that takes is all I need. Anything more is unnecessary excess. Getting a pass through doesn't mean anything to me, doesn't make the deer any deader. Arrow stuck in the dirt doesn't impress me and doesn't make the deer deader. Heart hits don't impress me and if I hit heart on a broadside shot it means I missed. I aim center mass last few ribs. I can miss 6" any direction and still hit lungs, liver, heart, or gut, all of which result in a dead deer I will retrieve. I prefer not to hit gut because it ruins tenderloins but I'd prefer that any day over hitting brisket or hard bone trying to get heart.
In 40yrs I've killed deer with a recurve and wooden arrows, and compounds with aluminum & carbon arrows tipped with fixed and mechanical. The only 5 deer I failed to retrieve in that time were all because I missed vital organs or gut. Once I hit hard shoulder and watched the arrow bounce off. It was fixed head on a heavy aluminum arrow. At the end of the day there's no substitute for shot placement, and all the penetration required is the couple inches it takes to get a broad head inside. Pass through or barely inside both result in the same dead deer. This is what my experience has been and I've killed a lot of deer.
In 40yrs I've killed deer with a recurve and wooden arrows, and compounds with aluminum & carbon arrows tipped with fixed and mechanical. The only 5 deer I failed to retrieve in that time were all because I missed vital organs or gut. Once I hit hard shoulder and watched the arrow bounce off. It was fixed head on a heavy aluminum arrow. At the end of the day there's no substitute for shot placement, and all the penetration required is the couple inches it takes to get a broad head inside. Pass through or barely inside both result in the same dead deer. This is what my experience has been and I've killed a lot of deer.
Lets add poorly tuned bows to the mix. Would love to see all the you tubers in one line and put a fixed blade broadhead on their arrows and everyone get one shot at 40 yards. Im guessing it would be some good entertainment.
I do think the key is weight. Here is a pic of blood trail from last night on a big buck from a friend. It was a mechanical with little penetration. They brought in 2 different dogs. No luck. Megameat expandable
