New to creating a QDM lease, any suggestions?

[banyan slayer]

Got a possible great opportunity to get 1200 acres with only 3 other fellas in Georgia and we are meeting this week to discuss our thoughts regarding rules and goals of the property. I would not consider myself a super experienced hunter at this point but I love to hunt any chance I get and have never had a lease opportunity like this one. I have spent the better part of the last 2 years trying to learn everything I can about QDM pracitices and principles and this site has been the best resource by far.

If ya'll were in my situation, what would be some of the guidelines/suggestions/questions that you would ask and what QDM rules/guidelines do you feel are mandatory to creating a true and successful "trophy property?" I still do not know all the details of the property as I will be driving up from Florida on Thursday to survey the property and discuss what the rules will be from the landowner. I do know that the property has 2.8 miles of deep creek footage which has got me so excited I can't stand it! There is a great mix of hardwoods, pines, planted fields and a couple of active duck ponds to boot!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and I am looking forward to finally getting to post some real QDM stuff on here.

Thanks Fellas

 

[rem270]

set an antler restriction and keep the does from getting over populated.

 

[Football Hunter]

set an antler restriction and keep the does from getting over populated.

YEP,ANTLER/AGE ON BUCKS,see what you can do about security cover,food,predators

 

[Tree Tramp]

Buck age restriction 3.5+

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

"what QDM rules/guidelines do you feel are mandatory to creating a true and successful "trophy property?"

QDM is not trophy management. If you want QDM dont shoot any buck under 1.5 and very few under 2.5, and shoot lots of does. If you want trophy property dont shoot any buck under 4.5 and shoot every doe, and you will need more property than 1200 acres for TM.

If I where doing a QDM property and thought the members might have a hard time ageing bucks I would go with a points restriction the first couple years.

 

[deerchaser007]

First and foremost if the deal pans out,.. each member would be responsible for purchase of 2 quality trail cams and responsible for gathering a census of the standing herd on the property. Establish mineral stations,.. 1 for every 200 acres to start,. plus it works out that each member could place a cam over every site for a summer census. Second,.. after in depth scouting,.. establish sancuaries that you never enter ,.. in the center of the property is most preferred,. or,.. some of the best, thickest cover. Third,.. agree on stand or hunting locations,. this way you can cummunicate were each member will be during hunting hours and there will be no conflict.Forth,.. from the data you gather from summer census,. pinpoint how many does each member must be responsible for taking out of the herd,. and pinpoint bucks you wish to target for hunting season. From this,.. create penalties to a member if he harvest a buck that was pinpointed not for harvest. Continue to run camera census into the season,. and each member check periodically the results on every cam for bucks that have expanded onto the property out of their summer home range, and rut expanders. Communication between the members of the cam results is a must this time of year to pinpoint bucks they wish to harvest,.. and bucks laid out not for harvest. Last,.. work together on all projects set forth and always be willing to help another member. This could simply be helping a member drag deer out, help gut & clean,etc. Extra info,.. encourage the landowner to plant you cool season annuals in his ag fields after he harvest his crops from the summer. Even if it means you pay alittle more $ per acre on the lease.

That would be my main guidlines for 3 people on 1200 acres looking for a high quality QDM experience!! If you and your members are serious about success,.. don't worry about antler restrictions,don't even consider age except no harvest of 1.5 y.o.'s, and for sure no cull buck crap,.. just use the data you gather and pick the bucks available for harvest. This is of course,...IMO!!

 

[Tin Star]

The lease I hunt on is located in Taylor Co. Ga. We have 900 acres with antler restrictions. Bucks have to be 8 points or better with an outside spread of 15 inches and your next buck you have to shoot up. Any buck you shoot, you have to mount. We encougage hunters to shoot does and not to shoot bucks any younger than 3.5 years of age. Doesn't always work out that way, but as long as hunters stay within the anther restrictions every one's happy.I've been on this lease for five years and have only taken two legal bucks. What Co. in Ga. will you be hunting in?

 

[banyan slayer]

The lease I hunt on is located in Taylor Co. Ga. We have 900 acres with antler restrictions. Bucks have to be 8 points or better with an outside spread of 15 inches and your next buck you have to shoot up. Any buck you shoot, you have to mount. We encougage hunters to shoot does and not to shoot bucks any younger than 3.5 years of age. Doesn't always work out that way, but as long as hunters stay within the anther restrictions every one's happy.I've been on this lease for five years and have only taken two legal bucks. What Co. in Ga. will you be hunting in?

Tin Star,

I can't disclose yet where the property is as I have been asked to keep the location under tight lip until we lock it up. I only say this because it is right close to Taylor County. We should have it locked up by the end of this week should we decide to take the property and then I look forward to talking GA deer with you.

 

[banyan slayer]

Do you all think that restricting the hunting over food plots will cause too many problems and not worth mentioning? I hate the politics that go along with setting up these things but since we get to start from scratch on this one, I would like to do it right. Anyone have any experience trying to enforce a no hunting over foodplot rule?

 

[BSK]

banyan slayer,

The first thing you need to do is sit down with all the hunters involved and decide on what your goals are. In essence, what kind of experience would all of you consider "successful?" Are you looking for a particular size of antlers? A specific age for harvested bucks? A combination of both?

Although you will get plenty of advice telling you to set your goals very high, I personally suggest starting with very modest goals until you get a feel for what the land is producing. If the land can/is producing much better than these preliminary goals, then adjust the goals higher. But nothing can kill a project faster than goals set so high no one is reaching them.

Next, decide on how you will handle necessary doe harvests. How many does will you harvest annually and by what rules? Will doe harvests be manditory for each member?

Find out from the landowner what habitat manipulations will be allowed, i.e. food plots, creating cover, etc.

When assessing the property, one of the first things you need to do is begin designating areas as sanctuaries from hunting pressure. These sanctuaries are critical.

Set-up a data collection program. This may sound boring and time-consuming, but in time it will end up being the most important aspect of your management. REQUIRE all hunters to collect observation and harvest data.

And most importantly, do what deerchaser007 suggested--use trail-cameras to find out what is really on the property. We have a couple of excellent mature buck hunters on TNdeer that will end up seeing the vast majority of the older bucks using the properties they hunt, but this is not the norm. Most hunters struggle to see only a small percentage of what is really out there in the way of older bucks. What I'm getting at is hunter observations WON'T tell you what the real potential of the property is. Only trail-cameras will do that.

As deerchaser007 described, immediately establish at least on salt/mineral lick per 200 acres and then require hunters to buy enough trail-cameras to cover those mineral licks in summer. After September, move those cameras to scrapes and run them over scrapes until the rut is fully over. What you are trying to accomplish is not necessarily a great census of the entire deer herd but an inventory of the bucks using the property from summer through the hunting season. This buck inventory will help you assess the property's potential, fine-tune your goals to what is realistically possible, and track progress over time.

Depending upon how often you can visit the property throughout the year, I would HIGHLY recommend spending the extra $$$ and buy black-flash cameras. White-flash and red-glow cameras tend to drive deer away from the sites being monitored (deer begin to avoid the flash). Black-flash cameras can be left at individual camera sites for long periods of time without causing camera avoidance because deer cannot see the flash. If you can only visit the property once every 3 or 4 weeks (can't move cameras frequently), black-flash cameras will provide much more useful data. In fact, you can leave a black-flash camera pointed at the same scrape for months without experiencing camera avoidance.

I would recommend some black-flash camera models, but several new models are just about to hit the market, and some of these have excellent advertised features. But I'm waiting to test them before I recommend them. What a company advertises and "the truth" are often two different things! ;)

 

[deerchaser007]

Do you all think that restricting the hunting over food plots will cause too many problems and not worth mentioning? I hate the politics that go along with setting up these things but since we get to start from scratch on this one, I would like to do it right. Anyone have any experience trying to enforce a no hunting over foodplot rule?

Its worth mentioning. Provide the facts to the members. For hunting mature bucks or really any deer,.. statistically,.. a higher percentage of hunters are more successful at harvesting deer hunting travel corridors leading to and from food plots. Also,.. its a good idea to leave some plots or food sources no hunting at all,.. most preferable near your sancuaries. You will be able to hold more deer on and near the property if you don't hunt them were they want to eat and feel safe.

 

[deerchaser007]

BSK done a much better job than i did at describing what is needed for establishing a sound qdm lease. I did want to disclose my feelings on why i am against antler restrictions,. even though you are in GA,.. and might have a antler restriction by the state. To many times i have seen quality mature bucks that are 6 and 7 points and thats all they will be. If you have a 8 pt restriction,.. these bucks are not allowed for harvest. I've seen 5.5 y.o. bucks with 6 points,. but are over 20 inches inside. These bucks are true qdm trophies,. and should be allowed by harvest(if state allows). I have also seen mature bucks that may only have 12 to 14 inch spreads,. but there beams and tines are tall and massive. 15 inch spread rule eliminates them from harvest.
What i'm getting at is don't restrict yourself to the point that hunting is no longer fun for all members.If your gonna spend that kinda money on a lease, you should enjoy the gratification from a harvest. If you collect the data as described,.. you will get a great understanding of what kinda bucks you have the first year,. and every year after as long as you collect the camera data from year to year. If your members are serious,. they will begin to really enjoy the data collection and pinpointing bucks for harvest each year. For many i know who do this,. get much more from there hunting experience,.. and are able to identify nearly every buck that crosses in front of them. PLUS,.. if they have allready identified the buck thru a pic,. they are not sitting there trying to count points or judge a spread. They know him when they see him,.. and can allow for better quick shots on that buck. Thats important,.. cause as many know,. sometimes you only have a few seconds at a mature buck,. and it may only happen once in a season.

 

[BigGameGuy]

Great suggestions deerchaser and BSK.

Here's another option most folks overlook. If there is a healthy density of deer, four guys on 1600 acres could probably easily shoot their buck of choice (yearlings included) if everyone was just limited to one for the year. This would still produce a high quality QDM program. If you're interested in shooting mature bucks (4-1/2+) it's more detrimental to your program to shoot a 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 year old than it is a yearling.

 

[banyan slayer]

Again, there is no question as to why this is the greatest resource of information short of spending every waking minute in the woods! Awesome suggestions and right on point with my personal goals. Thank you so much everyone for taking time to share your knowledge and opinions.

Regarding the antler/age restrictions, I like the idea of keeping it reasonable in the early stages of the lease until we gather the necessary data to determine the status of the bucks on the property. I like the idea of maybe having members pay extra money should they wish to take something outside the restrictions if all the club members agree ahead of time. A cross between what deerchaser and big game suggested to keep all members satisfied if they feel they have to kill something with horns every year. I am happy to pass quantity and wait for quality. Our biggest challenge moving forward is going to be that we have 2 members committed to very high standards and 2 that are probably going to want to shoot at least one 2.5-3.5 year old apiece(just my guess based upon year's past actions.) At the end of the day, our main goal it to have as much fun as possible and count our blessings to be able to do what we do so we'll find a happy medium.

I see the common theme that everyone agrees on is the need for sanctuaries. How many would you recommend within a 1200 acre parcel taking into consideration that at least 25% of the property is ag fields?

If you were going to limit certain food plots to no hunting and others were open for stands would you plant different food sources in the two different plots? I would think that plots that did not have hunting pressure and were located closer to sanctuaries would need a food source that is more resilient to browse pressure since over time the plots that were getting hunting pressure might be used less? Or would the deer just browse the night plots more at night?

 

[deerchaser007]

On the sancuaries,.. i think you should involve your members on that choice. First,.. y'all just need to agree on having them. If all agree,.. let the property speak for itself on were and how big and how many. The only recommendation i would throw into consideration would be in the pines. That is probably gonna be some of your best/safest cover for them.

As far as plots,.. i assume you are talking about plots you establish outside the 25% ag fields. What does the farmer grow in them fields? If its corn,.. would he willing to leave some rows standing and is he willing to put in a grain for winter such as wheat or oats? If yes,.. in your established plots i would focus soley on clover(both annual and perennial), chicory, and a brassica mix. If you established plots for nutrition and no hunting,.. i would focus on just the annual clovers and brassicas in them spots. BUT,.. you will have to learn about the soil in those spots,. and see what they wil allow you to grow also.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

and for sure no cull buck crap,..

Oh, this is a big must. Don't even start that crap. If you are serious, let them walk. Who cares if one never makes your guidelines. Any time you have enough bucks making it to older ages, you are going to have one or two that just don't cut the mustard but...............................your herd imho will benefit more by them being there than making mistakes and taking young bucks trying to remove them.

I could be wrong but it's worked for us.

 

[Chris Tripp]

get a book called Hunt Club Management Guide and read it, it will provide plenty of insight also.

 

[Dr2kill]

Go back and read any old post on here by BSK that man is a wealth of knowledge...

 

[banyan slayer]

On the sancuaries,.. i think you should involve your members on that choice. First,.. y'all just need to agree on having them. If all agree,.. let the property speak for itself on were and how big and how many. The only recommendation i would throw into consideration would be in the pines. That is probably gonna be some of your best/safest cover for them.

As far as plots,.. i assume you are talking about plots you establish outside the 25% ag fields. What does the farmer grow in them fields? If its corn,.. would he willing to leave some rows standing and is he willing to put in a grain for winter such as wheat or oats? If yes,.. in your established plots i would focus soley on clover(both annual and perennial), chicory, and a brassica mix. If you established plots for nutrition and no hunting,.. i would focus on just the annual clovers and brassicas in them spots. BUT,.. you will have to learn about the soil in those spots,. and see what they wil allow you to grow also.

Can't speak to exactly what is in the food plots but there are existing food plots on the property which we will be responsible for maintaining should we want them. The ag fields are rotational and I hear there is a possibility of Corn, Cotton, or maybe a bean of some kind. I will find out on Thursday. It is an absentee landowner with a professional property manager so I assume the fields are leased to a local farmer.

 

[Football Hunter]

On the sancuaries,.. i think you should involve your members on that choice. First,.. y'all just need to agree on having them. If all agree,.. let the property speak for itself on were and how big and how many. The only recommendation i would throw into consideration would be in the pines. That is probably gonna be some of your best/safest cover for them.

As far as plots,.. i assume you are talking about plots you establish outside the 25% ag fields. What does the farmer grow in them fields? If its corn,.. would he willing to leave some rows standing and is he willing to put in a grain for winter such as wheat or oats? If yes,.. in your established plots i would focus soley on clover(both annual and perennial), chicory, and a brassica mix. If you established plots for nutrition and no hunting,.. i would focus on just the annual clovers and brassicas in them spots. BUT,.. you will have to learn about the soil in those spots,. and see what they wil allow you to grow also.

Can't speak to exactly what is in the food plots but there are existing food plots on the property which we will be responsible for maintaining should we want them. The ag fields are rotational and I hear there is a possibility of Corn, Cotton, or maybe a bean of some kind. I will find out on Thursday. It is an absentee landowner with a professional property manager so I assume the fields are leased to a local farmer.

wow,thats cool,food plots,someone else is taking care of,although they are fun to fool with.

 

[banyan slayer]

Go back and read any old post on here by BSK that man is a wealth of knowledge...

I try to click on and read EVERY post and reply that BSK has on here. I go so far as to print some of them out and am starting a file on ideas and thoughts so I can stay organized on all things QDM.

 

[MickThompson]

I wouldn't worry about trying to not hunt food plots. They can certainly facilitate meeting your doe harvest goals.

 

[Football Hunter]

Do you all think that restricting the hunting over food plots will cause too many problems and not worth mentioning? I hate the politics that go along with setting up these things but since we get to start from scratch on this one, I would like to do it right. Anyone have any experience trying to enforce a no hunting over foodplot rule?

All depends on pressure,you can get away with it a time or 2,then drop back in the woods,catch em on their way in.

 

[BSK]

If you collect the data as described,.. you will get a great understanding of what kinda bucks you have the first year,. and every year after as long as you collect the camera data from year to year. If your members are serious,. they will begin to really enjoy the data collection and pinpointing bucks for harvest each year. For many i know who do this,. get much more from there hunting experience,.. and are able to identify nearly every buck that crosses in front of them. PLUS,.. if they have allready identified the buck thru a pic,. they are not sitting there trying to count points or judge a spread. They know him when they see him,.. and can allow for better quick shots on that buck. Thats important,.. cause as many know,. sometimes you only have a few seconds at a mature buck,. and it may only happen once in a season.

Words of wisdom right there.

 

[Winchester]

Some good advice offered here!

 

[BSK]

As for sanctuary acreage, I would recommend around 10% of the property (around 160 acres). Now how to arrange them is the question. First, let habita dictate that (utilize the best cover habitat as sanctuaries), but there are two competing theories on sanctuary size that both have merit. First is a few large, centrally located sanctuaries. The other is lots of little sanctuaries scattered all over the property.

The benefits of a few large, centrally located sanctuaries are that they are probably more attractive to deer (and especially mature bucks) because they provide more complete sanctuary. If a sanctuary is large, deer can go about much of their daily life without having to leave the sanctuary. In addition, human intrusion into a large sanctuary (recovering a downed deer or habitat work) is probably less disruptive to deer using the sanctuary. A few large sanctuaries are also easier to understand and keep track of for hunters.

Some of the downsides to a few large sanctuaries are that they are harder to hunt around. So many entrance and exit routes to a large sanctuary exist that figuring out where to hunt can be very difficult. In addition, because deer can go about more of their daily lives without leaving the sanctuary, harvest opportunities are reduced (if deer don't have to leave they sanctuary, they won't, if they feel pressured by hunter pressence).

The benefits of more smaller sanctuaries are easier hunting locations (fewer entrance and exit routes into the sanctuaries, making stand placement easier) and when the population of mature bucks is high many smaller sanctuaries gives each buck a place to hide without having to bump into other mature bucks. Basically, less competition for good "space" between bucks.

 

[BSK]

As for the food plot question, first, what will be planted in the ag fields and will these crops be available during the hunting season? If these ag crops will be primarily summer crops with nothing planted for winter production, then food plots wil be very useful and productive during hunting season. They could still be productive even if there are winter crops planted IF you focus on planting food plot crops that ar different than what is available in the ag fields. For example, if cereal grains are planted in the ag fields, then food plots planted in brassicas (Dwarf Essex Rape, turnips, etc.) would be quite useful.

As for hunting them, that is something you will have to test. Generally, hunting food plots reduces their daylight use by mature deer. However, depending on how may food plots you have, with only 4 or 5 hunters on 1,600 acres, you may put so little harvest pressure on each plot that daylight activity in those plots remain high.

 

[BSK]

Go back and read any old post on here by BSK that man is a wealth of knowledge...

Thanks for the vote of confidence! :)

 

[banyan slayer]

I expected a couple of great responses but 3 full pages of high quality info is as good as it gets! Thanks again everyone.

First member meeting last night and we only ironed out a few details but a big early victory is that we agreed to only shoot 4.5 yr old or better with no point or spread restrictions, just age. We are not going to add a fine to "accidentally" shooting something under 4.5 yet but if we see a trend forming then I think we will have to take it up a notch and add a fine.

There are 3 major ag pivot fields on the property and word is we are only going to see summer crops on them: peanuts, corn and cotton. No confirmation yet on excatly what the existing food plots have in them but I have been told they are fairly small with nothing over 1/2 acre. I reckon we will have a few more discussions about them.

Initial discussions about the sanctuaries have been met with mixed reviews. There are a lot of opinions regarding "how" this property can and will be hunted by each member and since none of us have spent any real time on the property yet, I think we will have to table this one until we get some time in the trenches. We will not have access to the property until June 1. If I can successfully add one rule to the club I have decided it would be the sanctuary concept.

I am taking the wife to ride the property tomorrow so I should get a better feel for what we are getting in to.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

4.5 yr old and up is some big expectations.